Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby djw47 » Tue May 22, 2018 10:25 am

Jmuzz wrote:
djw47 wrote: I don't think there would be many tourists travelling to Sydney who would change their mind because of the rules associated with the bike rental scheme.
Word of mouth, someone gets a $350 fine for using a bikeshare, that's going to hurt their review of Australia as a destination.
They don't even have to mention the fine, just puts a bad taste in their mouth which damages their overall opinion of the country.
It's already such an expensive trip, doesn't take much to cost us visitors.

Fining foreigners achieves nothing. They have travel insurance, big bucks for private hospitals when they crash.
I doubt anybody outside of Australia cares to be honest.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby familyguy » Tue May 22, 2018 11:07 am

djw47 wrote:
Jmuzz wrote: Word of mouth, someone gets a $350 fine for using a bikeshare, that's going to hurt their review of Australia as a destination.
They don't even have to mention the fine, just puts a bad taste in their mouth which damages their overall opinion of the country.
It's already such an expensive trip, doesn't take much to cost us visitors.

Fining foreigners achieves nothing. They have travel insurance, big bucks for private hospitals when they crash.
I doubt anybody outside of Australia cares to be honest.
They might not change their minds about coming in the first instance, but I think people would believe that they can ride a bike just like they do at home, wherever that is, without fear of being jumped on for not wearing a helmet/having a bell.

FFS, not even 36 hours in Japan told me how backwards Australia is when it comes to bikes. 3 weeks later I was more than convinced we are a total outlier actively discouraging bike use in ANY form.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby Jmuzz » Tue May 22, 2018 11:57 am

djw47 wrote: I doubt anybody outside of Australia cares to be honest.
It matters a lot when it makes the difference to friends question "do you recommend it?".
The helmet law itself doesn't make the difference, the fact that cops go around targeting tourists on bikeshare with $350 fines does.
Especially when so much vandalism, drugs and loutish behaviour is obvious. Gives the very strong impression that Australian cops are out for money collection just as much as the high corruption bribe countries, the only difference is they are loyal to the taxman and don't pocket it themselves.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby Usernoname » Wed May 23, 2018 7:21 am

Jmuzz wrote:
djw47 wrote: I doubt anybody outside of Australia cares to be honest.
It matters a lot when it makes the difference to friends question "do you recommend it?".
The helmet law itself doesn't make the difference, the fact that cops go around targeting tourists on bikeshare with $350 fines does.
Especially when so much vandalism, drugs and loutish behaviour is obvious. Gives the very strong impression that Australian cops are out for money collection just as much as the high corruption bribe countries, the only difference is they are loyal to the taxman and don't pocket it themselves.
But they do have to meet their operational orders in order to get paid, (They are only following orders from above - Nuremberg defence)
Aus motorists are safe to kill a cyclist at any time & confident that they will be protected from any serious penalties.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby djw47 » Thu May 24, 2018 12:39 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
djw47 wrote: I doubt anybody outside of Australia cares to be honest.
It matters a lot when it makes the difference to friends question "do you recommend it?".
The helmet law itself doesn't make the difference, the fact that cops go around targeting tourists on bikeshare with $350 fines does.
Especially when so much vandalism, drugs and loutish behaviour is obvious. Gives the very strong impression that Australian cops are out for money collection just as much as the high corruption bribe countries, the only difference is they are loyal to the taxman and don't pocket it themselves.
How much revenue do they generate from fining tourists riding on bikeshares without helmets? I'd have thought the likelihood of ever seeing that money from people who have no permanent residence in Australia would be next to zero.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby mikesbytes » Thu May 24, 2018 2:58 pm

More likely they have been sent out to book some cyclists and are expected to get so many bookings. So they do that, go out and book whoever they can and then they can return to doing something more useful.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby Thoglette » Thu May 24, 2018 3:05 pm

mikesbytes wrote:More likely they have been sent out to book some cyclists and are expected to get so many bookings.
Yup, the problem is somewhere between the Minister and the station duty officer.

Meanwhile, the Tele claims NSW has the lowest number of plod per population of all states.
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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby twowheels » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:42 am

Extremist motorists trolling cyclists https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/ext ... 4zigf.html

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby bychosis » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:17 am

mikesbytes wrote:More likely they have been sent out to book some cyclists and are expected to get so many bookings. So they do that, go out and book whoever they can and then they can return to doing something more useful.
They probably have some sort of quota (without having one of course). Get out there, quickly spot some easy targets. Helmets and footpath riding are really easy to spot. It takes a little more time to spot if there is or isn't a bell which is why it is targeted slightly less.

Unfortunately, the 1-1.5m rule is a lot harder for police to manage. First, they need to spot it, measure it somehow, chase down the driver, put up with the driver's protests of 'I thought it was 1m' etc etc.

It is high time they implement an online reporting system for close passes, red light running etc for drivers. It wouldn't even require a 'real police officer' to assess whether the online reports were good enough to issue a fine, that could even be assessed by some work at home types on contract and those that are good enough for a fine forwarded to the fine issuing agency.
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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby find_bruce » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:24 pm

No doubt in response to criticism that operation Pedro is limited to the CBD & North Sydney, last night I spotted a couple of cops all the way to the west of the Anzac Bridge

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:51 pm

find_bruce wrote:No doubt in response to criticism that operation Pedro is limited to the CBD & North Sydney, last night I spotted a couple of cops all the way to the west of the Anzac Bridge
Being discussed on Sydney Cyclist, no real conclusion over there

http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topi ... zac-bridge
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby CoffsGal » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:10 pm

Not sure if it was part of Op Pedro, but I saw two cycle police (one male and one female) in Coffs Harbour last Saturday at midday, riding together in the busy CBD on the footpath and not particularly slowly.

Should I have made a citizens arrest?

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:13 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
find_bruce wrote:No doubt in response to criticism that operation Pedro is limited to the CBD & North Sydney, last night I spotted a couple of cops all the way to the west of the Anzac Bridge
Being discussed on Sydney Cyclist, no real conclusion over there

http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topi ... zac-bridge
Yes, it's a 10km/h speed limit on the shared pathway. As was said on that forum there. :idea: Hmm. Whose 10km/h limit was that, the limit enforced by Harold Scruby? Seems all a bit arbitrary doesn't it.

Fortunately I don't ride there at all, and never have to ride into the CBD ever again.

Isn't it funny though, when a pedestrian complains about bike riders, action is immediate. Yet when we complain about the behaviour of cars nothing happens.
CoffsGal wrote:Not sure if it was part of Op Pedro, but I saw two cycle police (one male and one female) in Coffs Harbour last Saturday at midday, riding together in the busy CBD on the footpath and not particularly slowly.

Should I have made a citizens arrest?
Should have told them about the 10km/h speed limit mentioned on that Sydney Cyclist forum.

They have been getting out a bit on the M7 cycleway in Sydney just riding up and down there occasionally, I guess to try and deter the trail bike riders getting on there sometimes. Those trail bike riders are pretty dangerous and they did cause an accident some time back.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:29 pm

g-boaf wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:
find_bruce wrote:No doubt in response to criticism that operation Pedro is limited to the CBD & North Sydney, last night I spotted a couple of cops all the way to the west of the Anzac Bridge
Being discussed on Sydney Cyclist, no real conclusion over there

http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topi ... zac-bridge
Yes, it's a 10km/h speed limit on the shared pathway. As was said on that forum there. :idea: Hmm. Whose 10km/h limit was that, the limit enforced by Harold Scruby? Seems all a bit arbitrary doesn't it.

Fortunately I don't ride there at all, and never have to ride into the CBD ever again.

Isn't it funny though, when a pedestrian complains about bike riders, action is immediate. Yet when we complain about the behaviour of cars nothing happens.
CoffsGal wrote:Not sure if it was part of Op Pedro, but I saw two cycle police (one male and one female) in Coffs Harbour last Saturday at midday, riding together in the busy CBD on the footpath and not particularly slowly.

Should I have made a citizens arrest?
Should have told them about the 10km/h speed limit mentioned on that Sydney Cyclist forum.

They have been getting out a bit on the M7 cycleway in Sydney just riding up and down there occasionally, I guess to try and deter the trail bike riders getting on there sometimes. Those trail bike riders are pretty dangerous and they did cause an accident some time back.
(
As far as I know the speed limit is the same as the rest of the road corridor (60kph on Anzac bridge) unless its specifically posted such as on Pyrmont bridge where its 10kph. Please correct me if I'm wrong
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:31 pm

mikesbytes wrote: As far as I know the speed limit is the same as the rest of the road corridor (60kph on Anzac bridge) unless its specifically posted such as on Pyrmont bridge where its 10kph. Please correct me if I'm wrong
When I used to work in the city, I cannot remember seeing any such signs. Hmm.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby find_bruce » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:02 pm

I refuse to ride across Pyrmont Bridge as it is just a zoo - even at my modest pace it is quicker to take a 1km detour.

I'm fairly sure the "speed limit" signs on Pyrmont Bridge are advisory. In any event I have real doubts whether it is enforceable, but that is a technical legal point no sane person will want to test.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby Scott_C » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:20 am

CoffsGal wrote:Not sure if it was part of Op Pedro, but I saw two cycle police (one male and one female) in Coffs Harbour last Saturday at midday, riding together in the busy CBD on the footpath and not particularly slowly.

Should I have made a citizens arrest?
Drivers of Police vehicles have a blanket exemption from the road rules provided they take "reasonable" care, NSW Road Rule 305, so an attempted citizen's request is likely to end with you in cuffs and facing charges.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:08 pm

So Pedro happened again. If you ride on the footpath you get fined but if you ride on the road you get killed...

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 7725874991
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby g-boaf » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:36 pm

mikesbytes wrote:So Pedro happened again. If you ride on the footpath you get fined but if you ride on the road you get killed...

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 7725874991
You should ambush the Minister in front of the media with that opening line. I can’t think of a more precise and powerful way to put it.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby Thoglette » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:50 pm

mikesbytes wrote:So Pedro happened again.
And BN/BV spin it as a positive
Police blitz shows bike rider compliance is up
The results from NSW Police’s latest blitz on bike riders and pedestrians shows that people who ride bikes in Sydney are generally obeying the law.

As part of Operation Pedro held on Monday 23 September, 132 infringements were handed out to the city’s bike riders for a range of offences including riding on the footpath, not wearing a helmet and disobeying traffic lights.

This is a 10% decrease when compared with the previous operation in August 2018 and a 49% decrease from April 2018.

The penalties for these cycling offences range from $144 to $344.

At the same time, 77 motorists were fined for offences and 113 pedestrians were fined.

There are no specific statistics on the nature of the motorist infringements and whether any were fined as part of the state’s minimum passing distance laws.
Meanwhile, nearly 300 people have died in MV accidents in NSW yet not one person killed by a cyclist or pedestrian. In short, they're picking on the victims
Last edited by Thoglette on Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby queequeg » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:14 pm

mikesbytes wrote:So Pedro happened again. If you ride on the footpath you get fined but if you ride on the road you get killed...

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 7725874991
Anyone else pick up on the fact they ran Operation Pedro at the start of NSW Bike Week? Great way of encouraging Bike use don't you think.
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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby g-boaf » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:42 pm

queequeg wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:So Pedro happened again. If you ride on the footpath you get fined but if you ride on the road you get killed...

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 7725874991
Anyone else pick up on the fact they ran Operation Pedro at the start of NSW Bike Week? Great way of encouraging Bike use don't you think.
Same thing happened last year too iirc. Not surprising.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby trailgumby » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:55 pm

g-boaf wrote:Same thing happened last year too iirc. Not surprising.
Correct.

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby g-boaf » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:18 am

trailgumby wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Same thing happened last year too iirc. Not surprising.
Correct.
Last year it poured down with rain, so that was convenient. 8)

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Re: Vote of no confidence in Operation Pedro

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:24 pm

Last year I ask the Transport for NSW and then the NSW questions (as press) regarding Operation Pedro. Transport for NSW passed over all questions bar one as the jurisdiction of the NSW Police. I was interested to know if the Ministers were specifically asking the police to target bike riders but never got a clear answer.

Unfortunately, the questions were not engaged and all were diffused into basic and general responses.



Transport for NSW Statement
Transport for NSW can’t comment on questions regarding the enforcement of road rules in NSW, including minimum passing distance.

These are questions the NSW Police would be best placed to answer as they are responsible for law enforcement in NSW.

Question - BNA
Operation Pedro focusses on bike rider, was this operation solely an initiative of the NSW police department or did the NSW Government provide instructions to begin / proceed with the operation?


Response - NSW Police Media
legislation was enacted which police continue to enforce


Question - BNA
Are you able to outline the goal(s) of Operation Pedro and if there is are specific measures of success?


Response - NSW Police Media
Operation Pedro focusses on all forms of road user behaviour, the results of which are published in media releases after each operation. Measures of success are by way of providing a visible deterrent to poor road user behaviour.


Question - BNA
In May 2018, the new “Minimum Passing Distance” transitioned from a trial to a permanent law. How does the NSW police enforce this law and are there plans increase enforcement?


Response - NSW Police Media
police continue to enforce Minimum Passing Distance provisions by way of enforcement activities, or taking reports from those persons that wish to report such an issue.


Question - BNA
How does a bike rider report a “minimum passing distance” violation? What is the proceedure and which information needs to be provided to ensure that a report is accepted.


Response - NSW Police Media
those that seek to make such a report are encouraged to go to a police station, provide a statement, and any further evidence by way of footage or otherwise.


Question - BNA
Are there plans to improve the process for reporting violations, both for bike riders and for police officers processing the report?


Response - NSW Police Media
police continue to take such reports and investigate such incidents.
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