Went to this job interview other week..

CKinnard
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby CKinnard » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:12 pm

I've spent 4 mths consulting to a health care company that is trying to evolve its model.
They brought in a hard headed corporate type a few months before me.
Took me a month to get her measure accurately. She's a real slippery type.
We got on ok in the beginning but then the conquer and divide tactics became evident, and her innate competitive harsh nature. She loves a fight. and lets that blind her to maintaining an even keel.

She's never worked in health care before and is treating the 7 key clinicians like Indian call center staff.
Anyway, over the last 2 weeks, 3 of them have resigned. So that's ~35% of the business income gone.
And they are unlikely to replace these 3 within 3-4 months, and they will be very inexperienced.

So that's been a total cluster-f.

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Ross
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby Ross » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:13 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Ross wrote:*restructure has nothing to do with efficiency or streamlining, it is just a senior management type justifying their own position by being seen to do something so other managers more senior see it and think it is efficiency and streamlining (not just saying this because I'm bitter and twisted because I lost my well-paid job, just telling it like it is, many people in the division that weren't made redundant shared the same view)

Quite correct.

Steve Covey has some quite scathing things to say about this culture in his books in the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People series. I think his critique of this was in Principle Centred Leadership. Basically, the guy responsible for the carnage will leave and go on to the Next Big Thing before his legacy catches up with him, and the poor guy coming after him will have to deal with it.


This is EXACTLY what happened in another job I was in (and made redundant but ended up at the other job which I was also made redundant but no suitable employment was found for me so I had to leave). The boss had come from a similiar job/institution in WA and even though things where I was seemed to be working well and humming along nicely she decided to change everything. One of the main changes was getting rid of my position and making all the people who I was doing the work for now do it themselves, so they had neither the expertise or experience to do it and the extra time they now had to spend doing my work meant they had less time to do the more important work they were actually paid to do. Shortly after making all these changes she left, leaving the division in disarray.

RetroPilot
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby RetroPilot » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:52 am

Ross wrote:(no big achievment, pretty much anyone with a pulse could of got it) and, you guessed it, at standard award wage


So why even fking ask you 'what do you expect to be paid"?

why not say, 'well, this is the award, and for the time being, that's what it pays..(at least that would cut the BS, and be real and paint a true picture of what you are going in for..)

Instead of pretending that they are interviewing for a new exec at Merrill Lynch, or some shyt..half of the time, this 'corporate culture' thing, I think it gives them some kind of effect of delusions of grandeur..instead of nobodies interviewing for dead-end award jobs..
Hopefully you did not get the 'where do you see yourself 5/10 years from now" Schtick..

CKinnard
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:24 am

I've been thinking of this topic a bit over the weekend, considering the cluster-f I've been through in the last 2 weeks in a consulting role.

Some other red flags or utter hypocrisy I've seen from business owners/managers recently:
- we're only breaking even over the last 3 mths.
BUT the major share director then talks up her great weekend in Sydney, and her upcoming US trip with family.
- we're only breaking even....
BUT another director says she risks losing her house because it is mortgaged on the business. This is a service business and the only debt they could have is for the sub $150k fit-out. (the premises are leased).
- we're only breaking even.....
BUT spent $25,000+ for a weekend Facebook marketing seminar, and $15,000 for a consultant to come in and "mentor" the clinicians, rather than tap into the seniors in the business.
- then they enforce hard sell tactics to drive patients to book multiple appts ahead in time; denying my advice that it will only increase appt cancellations, rebookings, and no shows. The latest stats show that's what's happening.

These are all corporate tactics from passives with a lot of education and zero time on the frontline. They don't know the nature of the business. They don't understand clients, they don't understand the service being offered. In general, they just get in the way, compromise service delivery and long term staff viability, and make a lot of noise as they throw their weight around trying to justify their bloated salaries as they drive for that performance bonus.

It's a great time to go counter trend, and offer an outstanding personalized service from low overhead operations, to counter this culture. 60% of consumers will stick with the corporate operations, but growth will be in the better quality service imho.

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Ross
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby Ross » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:15 am

RetroPilot wrote:
Ross wrote:(no big achievment, pretty much anyone with a pulse could of got it) and, you guessed it, at standard award wage


So why even fking ask you 'what do you expect to be paid"?

why not say, 'well, this is the award, and for the time being, that's what it pays..(at least that would cut the BS, and be real and paint a true picture of what you are going in for..)

Instead of pretending that they are interviewing for a new exec at Merrill Lynch, or some shyt..half of the time, this 'corporate culture' thing, I think it gives them some kind of effect of delusions of grandeur..instead of nobodies interviewing for dead-end award jobs..
Hopefully you did not get the 'where do you see yourself 5/10 years from now" Schtick..


That's what I thought too.

I did also get a milder version of 'where do you see yourself 5/10 years from now" but don't think I give them the answer they wanted/expected. I think they had thoughts of grooming me for a supervisor/manager job. Not interested in that sort of thing, especially not at the pleb wages they are paying.

It seems quite a dysfunctional company. One of my main concerns (concerns may be the wrong word as I personally DGAF) is the quantity of stock they carry. They carry months if not years worth of stock, even though stock is ordered weekly and urgent products can be sourced overnight. Tens of thousands of dollars tied up in stock. Every month or so a computer generated list is generated of dead stock (not sold for 15 months I believe is the criteria) and it is all literally thrown in the bin. They get a part allowance from the manufacturer to cover this but the rest of the cost is just claimed back on tax. If the rest of the company is run like my area is I fail to see how they make any profit to pay any tax, let alone claim any tax deductions.

One of the other strange things they do is freight large (bulky) orders interstate but usually only charging the customer a nominal fee like <$50 but the actual bill for freight can be several hundred or sometimes over a thousand dollars. Pretty sure there is not that much markup in the products we sell to cover the freight (and all the on-costs like staff, equipment, packaging, electricity etc etc). Can't see the point of selling stuff at a loss.

The different divisions within the company don't communicate or work with each other. At times it is like they are trying their hardest to work againsteach other. The service area will book a job in that needs special parts that need to be ordered in and then the customer cancels or no-shows and we are stuck with thousands of dollars worth of parts that will likely never sell and in 15 months time they will be thrown in the bin. There is no provision in "the system" to have the customer pay at least a deposit on specially ordered parts.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby redned » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:14 am

CKinnard wrote:I've spent 4 mths consulting to a health care company that is trying to evolve its model.
They brought in a hard headed corporate type a few months before me.
Took me a month to get her measure accurately. She's a real slippery type.
We got on ok in the beginning but then the conquer and divide tactics became evident, and her innate competitive harsh nature. She loves a fight. and lets that blind her to maintaining an even keel.

She's never worked in health care before and is treating the 7 key clinicians like Indian call center staff.
Anyway, over the last 2 weeks, 3 of them have resigned. So that's ~35% of the business income gone.
And they are unlikely to replace these 3 within 3-4 months, and they will be very inexperienced.

So that's been a total cluster-f.


This is the McKinsey model and they make a fortune out of implementing it!

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby fat and old » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:25 pm

I always ask my guys want they want at interview time. Always. And I always know what the offer is....at Skilled Labourer level there’s not a lot of variation if any. It’s always a pleasure to laugh and tell them I’m employing people, not monkeys. We’re not the best (no business can compete with rail work wages in Melbourne today), and far away not the worst. Not had a knock back, but have lost good men to both rail and low level but all in paying jobs. In our industry that’s the hardest; competing with employers that will pay a high rate but no LSL, redundancy, public holidays, sick pay etc.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby human909 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:40 pm

redned wrote:This is the McKinsey model and they make a fortune out of implementing it!

The consulting world is a bizarro world of big $$ for questionable benefit indeed and don't get me started on the pump and dump venture capitalists.

I've had the fortune/misfortune of having a decent peek into that world. In some ways it sound interesting. But 3/4 of it is just a con job. The comedy House of Lies portrays it pretty well though with obvious and heavy exaggeration.

That said I have seen departments/organisations which need a big cull. One IT department that I had the displeasure of observing was so full of knuckleheads it was hard to believe. People without a basic working knowledge of even the most basic computing concepts. But idiots kept hiring idiots and because it was part of a large bureaucratic organisation there was nobody really in charge to determine competency but the incompetent. One or two of the competent people were passed over by people they hired because they didn't play the politics game... And guess what, they stopped caring and stopped working.

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Mububban
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby Mububban » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:48 pm

Definitely sounds like you dodged a bullet with them showing their true colours up front.
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby skull » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:59 pm

redned wrote:This is the McKinsey model and they make a fortune out of implementing it!


I have worked on a project where these guys were meant to be putting together the business case. I was less than impressed.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby human909 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:34 pm

skull wrote:I have worked on a project where these guys were meant to be putting together the business case. I was less than impressed.


From what I've seen it is about 80% of the effort on the continued sales pitch and 20% of the effort on the consulting. That said they do hire bright people and for those of us who has seen dysfunctional organisations even with 20% effort on the consulting from bright people can still end up with good results.

Thought bubble. On the opposite side of the spectrum you have personal trainers. Who again might be 80% sales/personal skills and 20% knowledge, who always the most academic of people. But people are happy to pay them $$$$ just to tell them to run faster, do 5 more burpees and 3 more pushups.... :lol:

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby DavidS » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:21 pm

I work for a uni and I've seen a lot of the above. Get rid of staff when they can barely get everything done, remove senior staff and replace them with casuals and then wonder why research rankings fall, and, best of all, paying millions to consultants who were trained by the university in the first place.

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London Boy
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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby London Boy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:42 pm

fat and old wrote:...competing with employers that will pay a high rate but no LSL, redundancy, public holidays, sick pay etc.

Casual loading. It's a choice that employees make.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby DavidS » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:46 pm

London Boy wrote:
fat and old wrote:...competing with employers that will pay a high rate but no LSL, redundancy, public holidays, sick pay etc.

Casual loading. It's a choice that employees make.


Not a free choice if unemployment is the alternative or if casual jobs are the only ones on offer.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:33 am

human909 wrote:
skull wrote:I have worked on a project where these guys were meant to be putting together the business case. I was less than impressed.


From what I've seen it is about 80% of the effort on the continued sales pitch and 20% of the effort on the consulting. That said they do hire bright people and for those of us who has seen dysfunctional organisations even with 20% effort on the consulting from bright people can still end up with good results.

Thought bubble. On the opposite side of the spectrum you have personal trainers. Who again might be 80% sales/personal skills and 20% knowledge, who always the most academic of people. But people are happy to pay them $$$$ just to tell them to run faster, do 5 more burpees and 3 more pushups.... :lol:


Add in Reiki practitioners, Life Coaches and the other 1980s-inspired professions, same dynamic.
Mmm, SunTour

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby human909 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:28 am

London Boy wrote:Casual loading. It's a choice that employees make.


Wow. Sounds like a political ideology comment, but I hope that is just naivety due to you being a skilled and educated worker.

The statistics show that there is significant demand for more secure employment, aka non casual. There are plenty of employees our there who ARE not choosing that and find it difficult to find permanent positions. Those of us who are more employable might have more freedom of choice. But there are significant number of people not in this position.

(Note: I'm not taking a stance blaming employers for offering casual positions. I'm just recognising that that many employees don't have a whole lot of bargaining power in the jobs they get and the conditions they receive.)

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby fat and old » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:21 am

London Boy wrote:
fat and old wrote:...competing with employers that will pay a high rate but no LSL, redundancy, public holidays, sick pay etc.

Casual loading. It's a choice that employees make.


Ansolutely. I’m not questioning the employees right to choose how, when and where they work. It’s a mans spaghetti monster given right to do so. Woman’s too.

Paying casual rates (usually a bit lower) to full time employees is a no no according to the law at least, and disadvantages employers who won’t take chances.

And don’t start me on “contracting”.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby fat and old » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:23 am

DavidS wrote:
London Boy wrote:
fat and old wrote:...competing with employers that will pay a high rate but no LSL, redundancy, public holidays, sick pay etc.

Casual loading. It's a choice that employees make.


Not a free choice if unemployment is the alternative or if casual jobs are the only ones on offer.

DS


I hear and understand where you’re coming from DavidS, but at my end of the world there’s plenty of work. You can make “workchoices” :lol:

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby fat and old » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:30 am

Those of us who are more employable


I think that statement is a common wording mistake made. Every able bodied person of sound mind is employable. I think that it should read

Those of us in a position to gain the employment we want in the manner we want with the conditions we want.

Some us are CFO material. Some of us struggle with calculating the volume of a cube. Some us can’t read a Melways. It’s not realistic to expect an even playing field based on being alive.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby find_bruce » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:22 pm

[Mod says]This discussion seems to be drifting well off topic. A friendly reminder to keep it bicycle related & that discussions of politics do not belong in this forum.[/Mod]

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby DavidS » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:10 pm

Well if you are highly educated with a PhD you'll find that the vast majority of academic jobs are either fixed term or casual. Very very few ongoing academic jobs these days. Not much choice there I can tell you.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby London Boy » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:06 pm

fat and old wrote:
London Boy wrote:Casual loading. It's a choice that employees make.


Ansolutely. I’m not questioning the employees right to choose how, when and where they work. It’s a mans spaghetti monster given right to do so. Woman’s too.

Paying casual rates (usually a bit lower) to full time employees is a no no according to the law at least, and disadvantages employers who won’t take chances.

Casual rates should be higher, at least for national system employees. Casual loading is compensation for loss of regular staff benefits.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby London Boy » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:16 pm

human909 wrote:
London Boy wrote:Casual loading. It's a choice that employees make.


Wow. Sounds like a political ideology comment, but I hope that is just naivety due to you being a skilled and educated worker.

Naivety is probably not the right word. Yes, it is a political comment, but probably not for the reasons you suppose. Growing up in a mining area of the UK as the industry collapsed ironed out any naivety I might have had, so you will have to think again.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby fat and old » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:28 am

DavidS wrote:Well if you are highly educated with a PhD you'll find that the vast majority of academic jobs are either fixed term or casual. Very very few ongoing academic jobs these days. Not much choice there I can tell you.

DS


That model seems to have been around a long time? I have no experience here, but I can remember my cousin who was a maths PhD illuminati gaining tenure (I think that's what it's called) at various unis around the world over 30-40 years whilst her husband was on various fed gov. postings to the same countries. Worked good for her. An old mate of mine who has a PhD in some form of physics does similar....there's actually no job in Australia for him bar what he terms his "boss's" at Melb. Uni. apparently. Something to do with interpreting electron microscopy imaging. He has quite a good life actually; picked up by the American mil. industry and went on from there.

On casual loading, I was under the impression that those loadings were compensation for not beingh a full time employee and not "qualifying" for said benefits/conditions? I know that once a subbie works for me past a set length he is legally an employee and entitled to all of the conditions that apply.

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Re: Went to this job interview other week..

Postby outnabike » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:52 am

Some times likes and dislikes register instantly though....Then the good folk look for a reason as to why they don't like you. I went into motor reg years ago and this bloke with a ring in his nose told me straight up he didn't like people with a pencil behind their ear. :D

Of course I was always making notes etc. for orders and just didn't think I even was wearing my pencil at a jaunty angle. Looking back I reckon my looking at his nose ring might have been the reason and I might have sent a subliminal smile to the poor fellow.

But there you go....Some times likes and dislikes register instantly. :)
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