energy supplements

Meto500
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:22 am

energy supplements

Postby Meto500 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:35 am

Again new in cycling.

I am 46 and I ride to work twice a week 16k each way. On weekends I will go out for a ride and try for further distances on the M7 usually heading towards Liverpool direction from Richmond Rd approx 60k return, but going for more.
as I was a cancer patient I am unable to carbo load a few hours before a ride. I must eat minimum 12 earlier.
also I will go for a ride 4:30am as I have a busy day schedule with kids.
is there substance I can drink while riding to maintain energy levels.

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby Mububban » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:58 am

Meto500 wrote:Again new in cycling.

I am 46 and I ride to work twice a week 16k each way. On weekends I will go out for a ride and try for further distances on the M7 usually heading towards Liverpool direction from Richmond Rd approx 60k return, but going for more.
as I was a cancer patient I am unable to carbo load a few hours before a ride. I must eat minimum 12 earlier.
also I will go for a ride 4:30am as I have a busy day schedule with kids.
is there substance I can drink while riding to maintain energy levels.


Any sports drink like Gatorade will give you some energy as you ride.

You can also use energy gels, bars, and gummy lolly chews for longer sustained efforts. All easily fit in a jersey back pocket.

Personally I found eating too often (every 30 minutes) made me feel queasy, so I drink more and have a gel or small bite of energy bar every 45-60 minutes or so. Less on the flats and more in the hills.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

Meto500
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:22 am

Re: energy supplements

Postby Meto500 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:16 pm

Thanks i have some lemon SIS that i will start using more of.

Calvin27
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby Calvin27 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:24 pm

My magic drink is coke. The energy boost is amazing.

However other common cyclist drinks of trade include:
- coffee - black or espresso. I save the milky stuff for after ride.
- Gatorade mentioned above.

Just a note though: sugary stuff on a completely empty stomach might cause you stomach upsets if you are like me. I like to put a bit of carby food in even if it's just a half triangle of bread to have some solids in there.
Fast light bike
Cushy dirt bike
Workhorse bike
No brakes bike
Ebike :)

User avatar
foo on patrol
Posts: 6405
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: energy supplements

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:56 pm

Bananas. :wink:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 13220
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney & Frankfurt
Contact:

Re: energy supplements

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:32 pm

Another vote for banannas (usually before a ride) as they help deliver constant energy rush than a shorter rush like a gel.

Also an electrolyte drink which you consume consistently helps.

For cycling, this also suits a more consistent ride than one where you are trying to ride at your limits... but consistent is nicer and usually gets you further.

While riding, you can try red frogs (not the green ones) as they taste nicer than gels and you can bite of a bit and slowely chew.

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 7030
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: energy supplements

Postby Duck! » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:03 pm

For your daily commutes your regular diet should give you enough energy to see you through, although you may need a little "top-up" snack mid-afternoon to cover the homeward trip. Your longer rides on the weekends can be helped with some extra intake on the go, in the form of bars and/or gels, or a drink additive.
Meto500 wrote:Thanks i have some lemon SIS that i will start using more of.

Check which SIS product you have; they do a range of supplements formulated for different purposes, moreso than many others. Their electrolyte-rich mix is geared very much toward replacing the mineral salts lost through sweat, which helps prevent cramping, especially in warmer weather, but is very low on carbs, so not very effective as an energy source. A more focused energy mix will have a higher level of carbs, and some electrolytes but in lower concentrations than the hydration mix. A recovery mix has a higher protein content and moderate carbs.

Be wary of lollies and things with a high content of simple sugars, particularly sucrose (table sugar) and glucose; these will tend to burn quickly when they reach the working muscles, so you get a quick surge of energy, then "bonk" as it burns out. Better-formulated products will tend to use a mix of sugars (often fructose - fruit sugar) and starches (maltodextrin is common as well), so although you'll get a bit of a quick boost initially, yo'll get a more sustained energy burn, so you won't bonk anywhere near as badly.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

Meto500
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:22 am

Re: energy supplements

Postby Meto500 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:18 pm

Thanks the SIS i have is more for hydration. Will go to supplement store and talk to someone. No food intake is allowed directly before the ride. Thanks for the info.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 9834
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:18 pm

I thought I read somewhere that the Torq drink mix was somewhat suited to your purposes.

Recently I've only been using whatever dissolving tablets (eg, Gu electrolyte tabs) are handy. I'm not using anything much else. That's usually sufficient for a 100km ride if I don't really put the hammer down. If I'm doing like 34 or 35km/h average speed for the completed ride then I'd better be eating something.

Black coffee (eg, espresso or double espresso which I drink) I find is a lovely wake-me-up in the morning and the taste is superb, but really no good for anything else.

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 7030
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: energy supplements

Postby Duck! » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:42 pm

g-boaf wrote:I thought I read somewhere that the Torq drink mix was somewhat suited to your purposes.

Torq is indeed an energy mix that incorporates the necessary electrolytes.

Recently I've only been using whatever dissolving tablets (eg, Gu electrolyte tabs) are handy. I'm not using anything much else. That's usually sufficient for a 100km ride if I don't really put the hammer down. If I'm doing like 34 or 35km/h average speed for the completed ride then I'd better be eating something.
As per my previous post re: the SIS stuff, the various tablets typically contain very little in the way of energy content, so usually still need to be augmented with an energy source.

Black coffee (eg, espresso or double espresso which I drink) I find is a lovely wake-me-up in the morning and the taste is superb, but really no good for anything else.
Actually aside from being a stimulant, another trick that caffeine has is the ability to trigger the body into burning fat rather than muscle glycogen, which aids endurance. The normal preference for fuel is blood sugar -> glycogen -> fat; when the gkycogen reserves are depleted is when you suffer a big bonk. Drawing on fat stores sooner reduces the dependence on glycogen, delaying the bonk.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

you cannot be sirrus
Posts: 880
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:04 am

Banana and dates work for me.

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 13191
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: energy supplements

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:53 am

I'm a fan of High5 EnergySource and High5 4:1 drink mixes, their gels and energy bars. Per Duck's excellent notes above, they comprise mostly Maltodextrin and Fuctose. The 4:1 mix refers to carbs:protein, which I find much better on longer rides (eg metric centuries, 24hr teams relay races) as I recover much better.

Fructose gives you the quick lift, Maltodextrin the sustained burn.They have caffeinated versions but at 30mg per gel I find them too strong. If I'm going to use caffeine, the 8mg Endura ones hit the right spot - they light the blue paper but don't leave me with that caffeine OD feeling.

The plan for a maximal-effort training ride or race should be to consume 1-1.2g of carbs per kg of body weight on the bike. Start within the first 15 minutes. For me at 80kg that looks like a 1x 700ml bidon at recommended mix, plus 1 gel and half a carb bar per hour. When I'm getting towards race fit I can maintain pace on that intake for hours. Discovering this strategy courtesy of Mark Fenner and some endurance racer MTB mates totally transformed my long distance riding.

Quaffing half a bidon within half an hour before starting the ride will put you in a good place.

May I ask why you're barred by your medico from eating for 12hours before a ride?

User avatar
BrisBoy
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:58 pm
Location: Western Queensland

Re: energy supplements

Postby BrisBoy » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:36 pm

Duck! wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I thought I read somewhere that the Torq drink mix was somewhat suited to your purposes.

Torq is indeed an energy mix that incorporates the necessary electrolytes.

Recently I've only been using whatever dissolving tablets (eg, Gu electrolyte tabs) are handy. I'm not using anything much else. That's usually sufficient for a 100km ride if I don't really put the hammer down. If I'm doing like 34 or 35km/h average speed for the completed ride then I'd better be eating something.
As per my previous post re: the SIS stuff, the various tablets typically contain very little in the way of energy content, so usually still need to be augmented with an energy source.

Black coffee (eg, espresso or double espresso which I drink) I find is a lovely wake-me-up in the morning and the taste is superb, but really no good for anything else.
Actually aside from being a stimulant, another trick that caffeine has is the ability to trigger the body into burning fat rather than muscle glycogen, which aids endurance. The normal preference for fuel is blood sugar -> glycogen -> fat; when the gkycogen reserves are depleted is when you suffer a big bonk. Drawing on fat stores sooner reduces the dependence on glycogen, delaying the bonk.


I'd be interested if you could provide a bit more info about the fat burning aspect. Haven't come accross that reading about caffeine before.

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 13191
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: energy supplements

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:45 pm

BrisBoy wrote:I'd be interested if you could provide a bit more info about the fat burning aspect. Haven't come accross that reading about caffeine before.

Some more info here: https://www.issaonline.edu/blog/index.c ... metabolism

User avatar
BrisBoy
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:58 pm
Location: Western Queensland

Re: energy supplements

Postby BrisBoy » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:40 am

Thanks trailgumby!

human909
Posts: 8959
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: energy supplements

Postby human909 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:16 am

trailgumby wrote:
BrisBoy wrote:I'd be interested if you could provide a bit more info about the fat burning aspect. Haven't come accross that reading about caffeine before.

Some more info here: https://www.issaonline.edu/blog/index.c ... metabolism


Interesting stuff. I'm not sure about the rest, but some of that seems base on outdated and inaccurate science.

"Lactate is a metabolite produced when you exercise. It contributes to the fatigue and pain that slow you down and make you quit early during high intensity or anaerobic exercise"


As far as I am aware the notion that lactate or lactic acid decreasing performance has been disproven. (eg; THIS)

Note. I don't claim that my linked source is more authoritative than trailgumby's. Nor am I particularly knowledgeable here. I would welcome more input and better peer-reviewed sources. I've only had a cursory look at the relevant material.

BTW I like coffee. So any evidence that supports my habit is great. (Likewise for beer!) :mrgreen:

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6108
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:09 am

As an aside...

Some "young'ns" may think that supplements are only a new age thing bought out by voracious marketters for the entitled generations.

I recall as a teenager, taking a new fangled energy supplement. It was being offered free to the the athletics squad of Guildfrod Grammar School, apparently as part of a market feedback survey by whoever it was who formulated it.

I was the 1500m div 1 runner, an obvious contender for extra energy. I tried it out but chose not to continue as it just gave an uncomfortable stomach during training runs.

For the record, the product came in big tins and looked a lot like Milo. It was Sustagen. Yep, it has been around for that long, though how close it's current formulation is to the original I can't know..
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

RobertL
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: energy supplements

Postby RobertL » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:32 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:As an aside...

Some "young'ns" may think that supplements are only a new age thing bought out by voracious marketters for the entitled generations.

I recall as a teenager, taking a new fangled energy supplement. It was being offered free to the the athletics squad of Guildfrod Grammar School, apparently as part of a market feedback survey by whoever it was who formulated it.

I was the 1500m div 1 runner, an obvious contender for extra energy. I tried it out but chose not to continue as it just gave an uncomfortable stomach during training runs.

For the record, the product came in big tins and looked a lot like Milo. It was Sustagen. Yep, it has been around for that long, though how close it's current formulation is to the original I can't know..


Gatorade was introduced in 1965...
Image

NASHIE
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: energy supplements

Postby NASHIE » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:58 am

Chow down some baking soda, 2/3 hrs before your ride. Works for horses :wink:

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 9834
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:01 pm

human909 wrote:BTW I like coffee. So any evidence that supports my habit is great. (Likewise for beer!) :mrgreen:


I also like coffee and consume a decent amount of it- but as for any purported benefits of it for riding, I've not noticed them. :|

I'll still drink coffee but only because it's nice, not for any other reasons.

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 13191
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: energy supplements

Postby trailgumby » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:44 pm

g-boaf wrote:
human909 wrote:BTW I like coffee. So any evidence that supports my habit is great. (Likewise for beer!) :mrgreen:


I also like coffee and consume a decent amount of it- but as for any purported benefits of it for riding, I've not noticed them. :|

I'll still drink coffee but only because it's nice, not for any other reasons.

Like creatine, if you keep taking a lot of it regularly the effect diminishes. I'm almost completely off caffeine due to the impact it has on my melbomian glands. So for me, it doesn't take much of either to light the blue paper and off I go. Whoosh! :lol:

human909
Posts: 8959
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: energy supplements

Postby human909 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:06 pm

Yes. I've heard from numerous sources that caffeine can have positive effects on athletic performance. I just was bringing up the stuff about lactate / lactic acid being a performance inhibitor.

I've certainly perceived that caffeine can be quite helpful. But my perceptions on this aren't scientific.

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: energy supplements

Postby Nate » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:11 pm

DIY gels...

viewtopic.php?t=11389
tailor the mix to your needs!

kenwstr
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby kenwstr » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:48 pm

Meto500 wrote:Again new in cycling.

I am 46 and I ride to work twice a week 16k each way. On weekends I will go out for a ride and try for further distances on the M7 usually heading towards Liverpool direction from Richmond Rd approx 60k return, but going for more.
as I was a cancer patient I am unable to carbo load a few hours before a ride. I must eat minimum 12 earlier.
also I will go for a ride 4:30am as I have a busy day schedule with kids.
is there substance I can drink while riding to maintain energy levels.


For a 16 km ride, you seriously do not need to take on any extra energy or even electrolytes at all. Just plain water is all you need. If you build up to 50 km or longer rides, then electrolytes and some food may start to be helpful. Maybe eat something 30 min or more before setting out and depending on the length of the ride, plan to eat no more than the equivalent of 30-60 grams of carbs per hour depending on body weight and acclimatization to digestion during exercise. Exceeding this is likely to result in GI related symptoms so err on the side of caution. The bulk of energy must come from stored glycogen. Eating while cycling is just a small supplement. For a 50 km training ride at the moment, I take 1 biddon of water, no electrolytes or food. This is enough in winter. In the height of summer, I'd want 2 biddens, al least one with electrolyte. In a 100km training ride or sportive event, I'd include 2 biddons with electrolyte and some food. I may eat oats for breakfast and a banana 30 min before the start and take 2 biscuits and eat one about half way and the other, perhaps 30min before my ETA, just to make sure I finish with good energy. Carb loading is often not done well. The main idea is to maximise stored glycogen for an endurance competition event, not a routine 16 km exercise session. Carbo loading should be done by tapering off the exercise, not only for muscle recovery but also to stop depleting glycogen to allow this energy reserve to increase in the bodies tissues. Carbo loading is just a way to ensure surplus is available for storage. It should be done over at least a week with nutritional carbs like fruit nuts etc, not blank starches like pasta. Pasta parties are popular for social reasons but are not an ideal strategy.

There are plenty of good online sources for cycling nutrition.
This may be a starting point: https://www.bicycling.com/training/g200 ... -you-ride/

You may also find interesting: research on the effects of interval training on improving mitochondrial activity. This improves intercellular coordination and can have significant benefits slowing and in some cases reversing conditions such as cancer and diabetes.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 155214.htm

Jmuzz
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: energy supplements

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:16 pm

Just basic lollies, or high sugar drinks, or fruit.

There is science behind the fancy gels, but they are expensive and plain old sugary stuff works fine for a lot of people.

Not sure what the medical reasoning is for the pre ride food ban, but you may want to ask the doctor if that includes food during ride and where softdrink falls into the ban.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users