Foodora closing down in Australia

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AUbicycles
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Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:11 am

ABC news reports that Foodora is winding down. The big issue in societies is that they labled their staff as contactor and didn’t have the same responsibilities as with staff.

As bike riders, they didn’t do much to help either.


http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-0 ... fmredir=sm

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby g-boaf » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:03 am

That is great that this lot are closing down, but terrible for the riders, especially injured ones who look like they are going to be left in a difficult situation.

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby fat and old » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:51 pm

I don't understand how a person can take a job, knowing full well what the offered deal is then complain when it doesn't work out as they'd hoped. Seriously. Does no one take any responsibility for their own actions in our society?

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby bychosis » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:07 pm

fat and old wrote:I don't understand how a person can take a job, knowing full well what the offered deal is then complain when it doesn't work out as they'd hoped. Seriously. Does no one take any responsibility for their own actions in our society?

I have the benefit of years having worked in businesses that provide what is required by WHS regulations. When I started work, out of school I didn't have that and grabbed whatever job that came to me. I had no idea about a lot of that stuff. Many others in the same boat, and many others do not have the choice to be able to find a good employer and just need money.
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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby Uncle Just » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:24 pm

As bike riders, they didn’t do much to help either.


The bike was a means to an end and they were desperate to make money. Go back over 20 or so years and I remember the cowboys who were couriers around cities of the world who did things on a bike to meet deadlines that made you cringe.

I don't understand how a person can take a job, knowing full well what the offered deal is then complain when it doesn't work out as they'd hoped. Seriously. Does no one take any responsibility for their own actions in our society?


When English is perhaps lacking or it's simply very hard to get any menial job this was seen as an attempt to earn something. Coming from poorer backgrounds it may sound a bit attractive to them but not to us more privileged Aussies. I am seeing first hand now the underbelly of exploitation by unscrupulous employers who want everything for nothing. When you are struggling as a student or newly arrived migrant you are fair game unless you have a job lined up with a good degree and good English. My DIL who is a highly qualified interior designer /architect but lacks good English has on many occasions at interview been offered work in her chosen field for $15 hr or pro bono!! If it weren't for us supporting them she would be another exploited worker. The workplace has changed and unions have lost power. Glad I'm not starting out. :(

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby fat and old » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:58 pm

I understand there's going to be some of that; there's an (I assume) chinese food delivery service in Melbourne who's bikes are signwritten in an Asian language that I'm pretty sure is Chinese all over the place. Seem to be some private service but there really heaps of them. All riders are Asian and most appear to be students. IF they're being rorted well who is doing that? Who rorted the Indians etc in the 7-11's?

But the protagonists in the Foodora type cases are nothing of the sort

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-0 ... ce/9934138

Josh Klooger was 26 when he started. Seems intelligent enough to be a poster boy at rallies

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-1 ... oo/9546822

His problem was declining rates. So good, leave.

Unfortunately I personally know of many, many examples of workers taking jobs that pay a bit more on hourly rate but pay no entitlements which leaves them earning less overall and with no super, LSL, redundancy etc. Many are registered for GST to work as "contractors". They do this knowingly, and are predominately young. They want that house deposit, car or whatever and are happy to work that way to get what they want. I guess I have a biased view.

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Good to see these leeches close up and go.
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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby gdt » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:22 pm

Reading this this ABC report it looks like they are shafting their "contractors" on the way out as well:
"As the business is solvent, shifts will be available as per normal until 10th August 2018.
"Between 10th August 2018 and 20th August 2018, there will be a wind down of services with fewer shifts available.
"Accordingly, this email constitutes as written Notice that your Independent Contractor Agreements will be terminated effective 20th August 2018.
"If you wish to return foodora equipment such as food boxes and backpacks you may do so between Monday 6th August and Friday 24th August 2018, excluding weekends.
"Upon the return of foodora property (in Like Brand New condition) and the presentation of a deposit receipt we will refund your deposit."

Because food boxes stay in "Like Brand New" condition for very long, and everyone kept their receipt, right?

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:10 pm

I think there should be room within society to shake things up. For example, most Taxi drivers in my experience are terrible so it is a ‘service’ I dislike so an alternative like Uber which has a type of ranking for quality is interesting.

But opening an established business in a new market is typically financially driven and with the competition is of two other brands, they all shift from an opportunity / reward style model to exploitation on a race to the bottom.

The staff are lured and as a young workers, the actual rights and details are secondary and the system stacked against the ones that don’t play along.

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby Ross » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:27 pm

I've read some of the comments on social media from restaurant owners saying they are glad Foodora are closing down and saying their fees are too high. In the next breath they are saying that online ordering only accounts for about 10% of sales.

Last time I checked business owners are free to deal with whatever suppliers they like, nobody forced them to sign up to Foodora, I'm sure all the fees/charges/commissions were listed in the contract that restauranters signed. If it's only 10% of sales (presumably this is all delivery services, not just Foodora) then I'm sure they would hardly notice the lost sales if they opted out.

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:47 pm

Ross wrote:I've read some of the comments on social media from restaurant owners saying they are glad Foodora are closing down and saying their fees are too high. In the next breath they are saying that online ordering only accounts for about 10% of sales.

Last time I checked business owners are free to deal with whatever suppliers they like, nobody forced them to sign up to Foodora, I'm sure all the fees/charges/commissions were listed in the contract that restauranters signed. If it's only 10% of sales (presumably this is all delivery services, not just Foodora) then I'm sure they would hardly notice the lost sales if they opted out.


It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. The issue is one of food-seller visibility and also a little bit of naivete on the part of food-sellers. A few months into the relationship and the true cost becomes apparent in addition to the other issues. I also doubt the 10% is truly representative, and think the figure is much higher, depending on location and how much take-away is done versus eat-in. The issues surround the commission (Uber = 35% of order), the lack of control once the delivery driver/rider has picked up the order, and the dispute process the restaurant gets locked into (i.e. they are told what happens, after it happens) but Uber claims to only be a technology services provider and that the delivery partners are acting as the agent of the restaurant. Which is weird because the restaurant has no control or any degree of influence over the driver and Uber pays them, not the restaurant.
Regarding the 35%, a lot of food sellers are now running dual pricing, so a menu with pricing for walk-ins/direct delivery requests, and a separate price list for Uber/Deliveroo/Foodora which is inflated to offset the commission rate or part of it. This turns your $12 pizza into a $16 pizza, which you've had to wait an hour for. And any 'sub-standard meal reports' are handled by Uber with no involvement by the food-seller. So if Uber give a refund, this is deducted from the food-sellers account (but the food left the premises in good condition, why should the food-seller suffer because the driver picked up 3-4 orders at once, or got lost, or squashed the pizza?). It's an inherently unjust system, which I understand is causing more and more businesses to abandon doing business with Uber/Deliveroo/Foodora, but I don't have figures, just anecdotal stuff.

A family friend has a restaurant in the eastern suburbs, and runs two menus. One for Uber with 25% higher pricing, and a non-Uber. And a family member has a restaurant in the inner suburbs, and I suggested they cut ties with all delivery services, after they found various chargebacks on their statement and also were concerned at the cost of doing business this way. Overall takings are down but so are expenses. Net profit has only been affected by a small % and the place runs much more efficiently, resulting in better food being served and much less stress.
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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:57 pm

Ross wrote:Last time I checked business owners are free to deal with whatever suppliers they like, nobody forced them to sign up to Foodora, I'm sure all the fees/charges/commissions were listed in the contract that restauranters signed


I talk to a local cheap Vietnamese restaurant owner and he said he cutoff support for the delivery services because it was only costing him customers who would drive down to pickup anyway.

Why pay fees, which were most of his margin, for customers who come to him anyway?
If he wanted to offer home delivery he could put his own cash in hand people on a scooter.

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Re: Foodora closing down in Australia

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:13 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
Ross wrote:Last time I checked business owners are free to deal with whatever suppliers they like, nobody forced them to sign up to Foodora, I'm sure all the fees/charges/commissions were listed in the contract that restauranters signed


I talk to a local cheap Vietnamese restaurant owner and he said he cutoff support for the delivery services because it was only costing him customers who would drive down to pickup anyway.

Why pay fees, which were most of his margin, for customers who come to him anyway?
If he wanted to offer home delivery he could put his own cash in hand people on a scooter.


Exactly...which is what my family member did.
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