Post Classic Cecils?

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bowie
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Post Classic Cecils?

Postby bowie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 pm

You know, the ones built after the hyper years before the 80's and those branded and lost in the mix of mass consumption.

I scored this branded something for nix as a hand me down from a father --> son --> me the interested other bike party.

Image

It's steel (fridge magnet confirmed) and is laced with a mix of early 9sp Campy Centaur / Voloce stuff, circa ~2002's I suppose. Looking at the Derailleur's, probably not longer after the Centaur stuff as re branded Daytona and released.

Image

These really look like the late 80's Suntour Cyclone stuff don't they.

Campy Veloce hubs and the de-facto great Aussie Velocity Aero wheels are laced to each other, and it has even has a 3 x cog front chain ring for maximum computability.

Frame is marked with a serial on the bottom bracket "7960" and the usual modern Cecil stickers everywhere, a generic carbon fork with steel drops out with a Cinelli Altera bar. No lugs for mud guards, (suppose they go in and out of fashion), and the frame is equipped with the usual braze points for cable adjusters, front mech, and of course rear mech drop out. Frame also has a lug on the inside rear diagonal for what I assume is a speed sensor. All the bells and whistles.

Weight? feel similar to my '71 Viscount Aero both fully dressed at about ~8.5kg, actually probably closer to ~8kg as it still has those monster SPD multi platform / cleat peddles attached (anyone need need them? I have no use for them)

Anyway, before I decide what to do with it, best work out what it is.

Long story short, where did these late 90's early 2000's steel frames come from? Is it going to rust and fall to pieces in 5years time or are they ok? I assumed general bike frame history went, Steel --> Aluminium --> Carbon, with a bit of steel overlap for the higher end stuff, but not the lower entry commuter / touring stuff?

Welds are nothing exotic, plenty presentable but no butting etc etc which initially led me to believe it was thin Aluminium.

Image

Always wanted a Cecil so I'm partial to it just because of the history within the brand, but if it's a crappy twain steel I'll get over it and move it on.

Oh serious about the SPD peddles. anyone want them?

Cheers,
Dan
Last edited by bowie on Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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P!N20
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Re: Post Classic Cecils?

Postby P!N20 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:46 pm

My understanding is that Kevin Wigham of Paconi fame built CW frames during the 80's, but I'm not sure how long that relationship went into the 90's.

Apart from some 70's klunkers, all the CW's I've seen have been quality frames, so with a bit of care there's no reason why it won't serve its purpose for many years to come.

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cycles gitane
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Re: Post Classic Cecils?

Postby cycles gitane » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:14 pm

Seems like a quality frame
- Campagnolo equipment
- no mud guard lugs, racing type drop outs
- quality work at the bottom bracket

Any tubing sticker?
You could contact Cecil Walkers in Elizabeth Street asking for info on the frame number.

I have a Reynolds 853 frame with a carbon fork from mid 2000s, built by Kevin Wigham.

Cheers
There is NO room in the shed for the next bike! New shed rqd.

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bowie
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Location: Sydney

Re: Post Classic Cecils?

Postby bowie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:38 pm

I thought about contacting the shop but with only a four digit serial, I doubt it would reference anything? Surely they have sold more than 9999 bikes since 1935? Anyway, might be worth a phone call.

No other stickers or marks sorry which makes me think it was a no-name frame they stickered up and sold as "shop" brand. I see they don't seem to do that any-more and just list the usual modern brands.

Either way It presents an interesting comparison between the 2 other older steel cycles I have across the different decades. What is of most interest is how far the rear wheel has moved in (all with 700cc wheels)

Starting in '71 with the Viscount
Image

Wheel hanger to Bottom bracket = 445mm
Smallest gap from wheel to down tube = ~40mm
Top tube = 575
Down tube = 580

Harison, the Mid 80's 531 (we think) Tube,
Image
Wheel hanger to Bottom bracket = 430mm
Smallest gap from wheel to down tube = ~35mm
Top tube = 570
Down tube = 560

Late 90's early 2000's steel Cecil,
Image
Wheel hanger to Bottom bracket = 410mm
Smallest gap from wheel to down tube = ~10mm
Top tube = 590
Down tube = 610

Looking closer at the modern thing, It's nearly worth to use it primarily just due to the abundance of fixtures that are controlled by a 6mm Hex key. I quickly adjusted the handlebars, stem, seat high and angle all with the single key. The Viscount and or Harrison would require 3 x different tools each for that same job :P

Anyway, best clean it and ride it I suppose. Perhaps it might make a nice base to built up with a decent 10sp setup.
Last edited by bowie on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bowie
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Location: Sydney

Re: Post Classic Cecils?

Postby bowie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:54 pm

Ah more photos because I'm a dork. It does have some nice features that will make it easy to live with; perhaps some of these will narrow down the type of frame.

Cable holders for the rear stuff
Image

Height adjustable front mech holder
Image

Rear mech cable holder
Image

Rear drop out with adjuster (great)
Image

Brake holder
Image

And seat stay
Image
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bowie
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Location: Sydney

Re: Post Classic Cecils?

Postby bowie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:48 pm

Ah a little more internet research starting with the Wayback machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070829223 ... y105_1.htm

Turns out in the early 2000's they where still building frames to spec, little bit more google turns out a similar looking beast.

http://www.fixed.org.au/forums/showthre ... post550249

I note the similar Centaur groupset referenced and the seat lugs match, along with the front cable stays and top tube cable holders that I can determine.

Also this very place houses this further reference,

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12174

Which shows a similar seat lugs and front cable mounts, but not on the bottom frame tube to support the cable adjusters.

Anyway. its probably a 531 or 853 and thus may become a good starting point to supplement the ancient crafts.
Last edited by bowie on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nemo57
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Re: Post Classic Cecils?

Postby nemo57 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:56 am

bowie
My enquiries of an experienced Melbourne frame maker suggest that:
(a) it's quite possible that the frame dates to as early as 1995, since 2nd gen Campag Veloce was out round that time and this 1st gen MIG frame also. This would tie in with the info you've dug up regarding CW's use of 853;
(b) CW had some frames made by Kevin Wigham and others to the same pattern made in Taiwan. Your frame could be either. Although he believes that they may have had different serial number series, he doesn't know whether they did in fact;
(c) the frame itself should be good for many years yet;
(d) be very very careful about the integrity of the old carbon fork; if at all possible get it tested. My adviser had one fail at 12 years en route to the 1 in 20. Would have been disastrous had it been on the descent. On examination found some tiny cracks in the legs, no noises, but under load had developed lateral flex of several cm, and was plainly not far from collapse.
Hope this doesn't merely further confuse matters for you!

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