Position on the road

[warren.andrews]

I'm a newbie to this Forum & to cycling so forgive me if this has been discussed before.

Where in the lane should one be positioned on Sydney streets? Close to the kerb? If there are parked cars at least one 1m away from them? In the middle of the lane which seems to really annoy car drivers?

There seems to be a discrepancy between what is legal & what is safe.

[jasimon]

It depends!

I think that there actually isn't a discrepancy between what is legal and what is safe. You seem to be associating annoyed car drivers with less safety. I think this is wrong on two counts. You are safer being legally in the middle of the lane where cars can see you and are not tempted to squeeze you dangerously into the gutter and cause an accident. Secondly, cars actually treat me better - and seem less annoyed - when I am clearly in the lane rather than off to the side of it. Just behave like a car and cars treat you more like a car. (I do this particularly in the CBD where my speed is equivalent to all the cars - on a faster road I am more circumspect.)

On the other ones, I think you should almost never be closer than 1m to the side of a parked car regardless of how it makes other drivers feel because dooring is the major hazeard faced by a rider. Otherwise, if it is possible for you to ride on a shoulder that provides for good clearance between you and any passing cars, then doing so helps to keep traffic flowing. But if cars are passing you dangerously closely, take the lane and take control of your safety.

[philip]

Yep, right in the middle is best. Never go in/near the gutter. It's just too unsafe because cars will try to go past you without changing lanes properly.

The only time I ever ride to the left of a lane is if it's a wide single lane road and I'm going slower than traffic. This is hardly ever though, as I avoid those kind of roads.

[Nate]

i give parked cars 1.5m distance - especially if there's a little bike lane marked there. (as you're taking up less of the 'car' lane)

Generally i ride just to the left of the centre at most times - the exception is approaching something "interesting" - intersection, slow zone etc, as you may need the space if something goes wrong, its also where the speed difference between you & everyone else is minimal - so you're not "slowing them down". During these times i'll go straight down the middle.

I go just to the left & listen for motorcycles & then wave them through when they're behind me (& shuffle a tad to the left).

I would NOT recommend riding close to the gutter or any further left than the left wheel track, as some drivers may "have a go" at trying to pass you at an unreasonable time.

I ride the pacific highway twice a day for 7k's & havent had an issue doing this with peak hour traffic - but i spend most of it in T3/bus lanes.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I don't like riding in the middle of a lane as that's where most of the oil is spilt. I prefer to ride where the car tyres track. It's usually a cleaner line with less debris.

Clearly in Sydney the road conditions are highly variable, so there's no universally correct position to ride in a lane.

[jasimon]

The only time I ever ride to the left of a lane is if it's a wide single lane road and I'm going slower than traffic. This is hardly ever though, as I avoid those kind of roads.

This brings up another key point - route planning. Some roads are just too dangerous and you need to plan ahead to avoid them. Sometimes you may find yourself in a situation where you have no choice, but otherwise look for quiet, wide, backstreets or multi-lane roads where you can take a lane and cars can go around in the other lane. Busy single lane roads are usually not fun regardless of where you are positioned in the lane.

[pine]

I don't like riding in the middle of a lane as that's where most of the oil is spilt. I prefer to ride where the car tyres track. It's usually a cleaner line with less debris.

Clearly in Sydney the road conditions are highly variable, so there's no universally correct position to ride in a lane.

Thanks Alex, valid point, I will do the same in the future. But you can’t really see where the tyres tracks are “unless they do a (doughnut) donut or burn rubber for 80km.” (Just kidding)

[sogood]

I don't like riding in the middle of a lane as that's where most of the oil is spilt. I prefer to ride where the car tyres track. It's usually a cleaner line with less debris.

Clearly in Sydney the road conditions are highly variable, so there's no universally correct position to ride in a lane.

+1.

The whole aim is to take the lane and not allow motor vehicles push through in a way that'll endanger you.

[trailgumby]

I don't like riding in the middle of a lane as that's where most of the oil is spilt. I prefer to ride where the car tyres track. It's usually a cleaner line with less debris.

Clearly in Sydney the road conditions are highly variable, so there's no universally correct position to ride in a lane.

Thanks Alex, valid point, I will do the same in the future. But you can’t really see where the tyres tracks are “unless they do a (doughnut) donut or burn rubber for 80km.” (Just kidding)

I'm with Alex on this one. I find I usually can see, and if I can't then I can infer. Anyways, a ride in the rain will soon show you - the oiled-up center of the lane is usually more glossy than the tyre tracks.

[wombatK]

There seems to be a discrepancy between what is legal & what is safe.

Why would anyone construct the road rules so as to make unsafe behavior legal ? There should be no conflict. The Road Rules are there to provide safety for all road users. Cyclists are vehicles, and are entitled to use whatever part of a lane they see as fit for the circumstances - subject to the Rule 151 requirement of being within 1.5 m of another rider you are alongside. There are few differences in the road rules for cyclists v's other road users - see Part 15 of the Road Rules and the various rules it refers to in its preamble for more detail (should be mandatory reading for every cyclist, not just licensed motorists).

If everyone follows the law 100%, you can ride anywhere in the lane and you would be safe.

In reality, gutters are full of hazards - like drain grates and extra potholes or cracks wider than a bike tyre that never get fixed. So for you to be safe, motorists would have to ensure they left a safe distance when attempting to pass (overtake you) in the same lane. Few consider the possibility of you being destabilised by the unexpected grates/cracks- and the majority will pass unsafely close to you. Even fewer consider the possibility that wind gusts might destabilise you. And all too many motorists approaching from a cross street don't even look in the gutter zone for vehicles they must give way to, so the risks you take by riding there are just stacking up.

"Taking the lane" is a legal and prudent defence to this unsafe and strictly illegal but common motorist behavior. And it leaves you a safer escape path to your left.

Similarly, another big hazard is the motorist or passenger who obstructs your lane by opening a door into your path. Strictly illegal and unsafe behavior on the motorist's part - but it could be your funeral. Taking as much of the adjacent lane as you need to pass an opened door is a prudent defence, as well as being perfectly legal as long as you are not crossing a lane boundary or shoulder marking without giving way or signalling.

It's not a conflict between what is legal and what is safe, but rather between what is legal and the unsafe illegal things that other road users do.

These suggestions are no different to how as a motorist you may have to put aside some legal rights, and use strategies that leave you safe should other motorists drive illegally and unsafely. Motorists call it defensive driving - and cyclists should do it too.

Hey, but life is short, and some cyclists like to spice-up their boring days by being nice guys who take risks by inviting close overtakers and hiding in the gutters.

[hartleymartin]

Another hazard is that gutters is where various bits or rubbish end up - particularly nasties like broken glass and used syringes.