Sydney Bike Lanes

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby madrapper » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:55 pm

Yes - when I hear stuff like "ban cyclists from the roads" during peak hours or other such variation on the theme it makes me shake my head.
Surely the idea is to have less cars on the road? I know some people need cars for various reasons but the vast majority of people using cars are either just lazy or don't have an understanding of why all these vehicles are generally a bad thing.
God help us if someone suggested to ban cars on Bourke (rd, st, whatever - it's been a while since it was part of my commute)
Cheers,
Dave
User avatar
madrapper
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:17 am
Location: Perth

by BNA » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:59 pm

BNA
 

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby ghettro » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:59 pm

It comes down to mathematics and spatial planning, as urban density increases space becomes more valuable and cars become a less efficient mode of transport compared to public transport, walking or cycling. That is without any serious detriment to our public spaces.

Then you have idiots like Carl Scully in charge of roads who actually did seriously suggest that cyclists stay off the road during peak hour as a way of alleviating congestion...
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/ ... -i7wf.html
User avatar
ghettro
 
Posts: 960
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:38 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby zero » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:23 pm

Maths was never Scully's strong point.

1.9m x 5m without clearance space = a bloody lot of space for the average single occupant vehicle, and too much space given city population densities. The average sydney car has 1.1 occupants...

I don't really understand why the format of cars has to be that stupidly large box that was last popular in the 1920s. Realistically we should be developing a drivable 4 wheel armchair with a weather/crash structure for commuting and congestion taxing the hell out of anything that is larger or doesn't carry 60 passengers. Its not like the aussiecar racing series hasn't already solved everything thats required to build such a car with crash protection already at the level required for a race setting, and well above that used in typical road cars.

The current trend in car design is to raise the seat height of the driver, and cars are all getting taller and wider and longer just to retain some stability against the practical absurdity of that marketing requirement for tarmac vehicles. The trend has gone to its logically stupid extreme where vehicles are now having their ride heights raised just so they can keep the overall frontal area down to a vaguely economic size with the inevitable result that we have heavy large 4 seat vehicles with restricted headroom that aren't even feasible long distance travellers for 4 adults.
zero
 
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby anonymous_ » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:39 pm

Do you really think that you are going to get a sensible balanced article on cycling in the Telegraph because some guy who has been riding for a few weeks and hates those that wear lycra comes in here and sweet talks you, well good luck.

He took the facts and quotes that suited his angle. The story was anti cycling - look at the comments it attracted. Now he wants to swap spit with you all again and you are entertaining him, thinking he will write that the RTA is to blame. Well don't hold your breathe.

Alan had a great time with the article on his program saying even the cyclist do not want these bike lanes and that they should be ripped up now.
anonymous_
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:34 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby zero » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:45 pm

anonymous_ wrote:Do you really think that you are going to get a sensible balanced article on cycling in the Telegraph because some guy who has been riding for a few weeks and hates those that wear lycra comes in here and sweet talks you, well good luck.

He took the facts and quotes that suited his angle. The story was anti cycling - look at the comments it attracted. Now he wants to swap spit with you all again and you are entertaining him, thinking he will write that the RTA is to blame. Well don't hold your breathe.

Alan had a great time with the article on his program saying even the cyclist do not want these bike lanes and that they should be ripped up now.


Heaven forbid the press report the truth occasionally.
zero
 
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby simonn » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:01 pm

anonymous_ wrote:The story was anti cycling


Where in the article was it anti-cycling?
Image
User avatar
simonn
 
Posts: 3590
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby anonymous_ » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:01 pm

Just to further prove my point read this

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/o ... 5921252041
anonymous_
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:34 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Chanboy » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:14 pm

The story didn't seem anti-cycling to me. It seemed to accurately describe that currently both motorist and regular commuter cyclists are not really fond of them. Seems fair and reasonable to me. IMHO, in their current state they are mostly useless. I'm not negative on the concept of bike lanes (like most cyclists) - and am hopeful that one day they are good and useful.



I do wonder what anoymous_'s hidden agenda is that results in all his/her negativity...
Chanboy
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:51 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby zero » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:19 pm

anonymous_ wrote:Just to further prove my point read this

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/o ... 5921252041


The terrorgraph runs opinion pieces. So does every other newspaper in the world.
zero
 
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby zero » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:20 pm

Chanboy wrote:The story didn't seem anti-cycling to me. It seemed to accurately describe that currently both motorist and regular commuter cyclists are not really fond of them. Seems fair and reasonable to me. IMHO, in their current state they are mostly useless. I'm not negative on the concept of bike lanes (like most cyclists) - and am hopeful that one day they are good and useful.



I do wonder what anoymous_'s hidden agenda is that results in all his/her negativity...


The agenda appears to be to provide me with soft targets for forum target practice.
zero
 
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby hannos » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:47 pm

Chanboy wrote:
I do wonder what anoymous_'s hidden agenda is that results in all his/her negativity...


Indeed!

anonymous_ must be Alan Jones in disguise, trying to get the "vocal minority" to shut up so the governments won't do anything to appease us (Read: make the city a better place).

:roll:
2010 BMC SLC01
Image
User avatar
hannos
 
Posts: 4020
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:18 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby live2ride » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:37 pm

The first paragraph in bold reads:

"LORD Mayor Clover Moore's grand vision of a Sydney cycling utopia has steered into an embarrassing dead end - even commuting cyclists hate her bike lanes."

This is not based on any serious survey and is seriously biased.
It's not against cycling directly but it is against any plans to increase the cycling network.

If Carswell wants to get a accurate idea of how popular the cycleways are then he should organise a 'rip up the cycleways' rally at the town hall, just like Alan Jones did a couple of months ago.
live2ride
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:30 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Cama7 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:00 pm

Once again ... sigh ... I'm not against bike lanes. I'm against poorly-constructed bike lanes. There is no reason why lanes like those on Bourke Rd could have been constructed with fast cyclists and nervous slow cyclists in mind.
Cama7
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Cama7 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:02 pm

.... which I know understand, thanks to the postings on this forum, had nothing really to do with Clover, and all to do with a motorist-friendly RTA.
Cama7
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby sogood » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:05 pm

live2ride wrote:"LORD Mayor Clover Moore's grand vision of a Sydney cycling utopia has steered into an embarrassing dead end - even commuting cyclists hate her bike lanes."

This is not based on any serious survey and is seriously biased.

Unfortunately I would agree with that headline given what I've read on this and other local cycling forum. Many cyclists just love to criticise any minor flaws in the design, and not seeing the milestone of a dedicated bike lane.

That's life I guess. :roll:
Bianchi, Ridley, Montague, GT, Garmin and All things Apple :)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
User avatar
sogood
 
Posts: 16929
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Boognoss » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:11 pm

Cama7 wrote:.... which I know understand, thanks to the postings on this forum, had nothing really to do with Clover, and all to do with a motorist-friendly RTA.


Just ignore anonymous_ and the world will be a better place :).
n = 3 for now

Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Nate » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:33 pm

Cama7 wrote: I'm not against bike lanes.


From the article:
Cama7 wrote:even commuting cyclists hate her bike lanes

From the forums:
Cama7 wrote:my daily commute

If communiting cyclists hate the lanes & you're a commuter....


You also did nothing to promote the lanes or say a single thing that was good about them.
You put forward about 12 NEGATIVE points against the lanes.

How can you claim you're "not against the lanes" - when you publish an article with nothing but negatives about the lanes?
Has there not been anything positive said about the lanes?

Fair? Honest? Do not plagiarise? - self enforced code of ethics...
Nice ripping off of my footage from youtube... Did you contact 2UE before you used the interview?

Guess i owe Trailgumby a case.
User avatar
Nate
 
Posts: 2712
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:49 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Cama7 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:42 pm

Hi Nate
There were glimmers of positivity.
Such as this in the opinion piece _

``But while the commuting-cyclist crowd vent their spleen on cycling forums about the design of the bike lanes, there is a parallel consensus that tips its collective helmet to Ms Moore's vision to encourage people to take up riding. And that, no doubt, was half the reason for Ms Moore's bike-lane decree -- not for regular bike commuters like me, but to tempt more novice riders onto their bikes.''

Also, the following sentence was unfortunately edited out of the main story _ (out of my control and entirely due to space constraints).

``There are some dedicated bike lanes that get the tick of approval from commuting cyclists _ like the Epping Rd/Gore Hill Freeway lanes that, ironically, fall outside Clover Moore's jurisdiction. While giving the bike lanes a wide berth, most commuting cyclists The Daily Telegraph spoke with agreed the concept of the paths was commendable, given it would encourage virgin cyclists to ditch the car, bus or train and ride to work. They also said the lanes provided new and inexperienced riders with a safe place to commute slowly to work."

You are probably right, not as balanced as it should've been.

I don't have control over the final edit, headlines, and in your case Nate, the use of your footage on our website. I certainly did not expect them to pinch all your footage (including the interviews) but when I talked to you on the phone, you did seem more than happy sharing your footage of the bike lanes and bike incidents.
You can't please everyone.
Cama7
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby mianos » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:17 pm

" .. even commuting cyclists hate her bike lanes."
Let's call a spade a spade. He made this up himself and it's mony balony. That's typical of newspaper 'reporting'. It's not 'reporting', it's creative writing.
Plus, it's pretty stupid writing an article about a bike lane system that's under construction. Consider an equivalent; maybe writing an article about the inconvenience of staying in a hotel when it's not finished being built. Dumb.
I live on Bourke St (about 50M from Clover). Sure, I would be faster on the road than the bike lane, but at least I would be less likely to be doored.
But hate them? No way.
mianos
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Nate » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:13 pm

Cama7 wrote:Such as this in the opinion piece _
Also, the following sentence was unfortunately edited out of the main story _ (out of my control and entirely due to space constraints).
You can't please everyone.


Fair enough - Is there a link for the opinion piece? didnt see any references to it.

Editing - figured as much, i'll point the finger at the editor with the "fair & balanced" finger!
User avatar
Nate
 
Posts: 2712
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:49 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:25 pm

Hey Cama7,

Did you know that the risk of cancer can be reduced thru physical activity. See this LINK for example. An article on this topic in the news would almost certainly result in someones life being saved.

Image
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14785
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby wombatK » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:17 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Image

Yikes, mike, you'll have to think of a better example than that to convince most people under 60. For the rest (i.e. he & his audience), its way too late to save them.
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5208
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Boognoss » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:09 pm

sogood wrote:
live2ride wrote:"LORD Mayor Clover Moore's grand vision of a Sydney cycling utopia has steered into an embarrassing dead end - even commuting cyclists hate her bike lanes."

This is not based on any serious survey and is seriously biased.


Unfortunately I would agree with that headline given what I've read on this and other local cycling forum. Many cyclists just love to criticise any minor flaws in the design, and not seeing the milestone of a dedicated bike lane.

That's life I guess. :roll:


I've been known for the occasional whinge ;).

My only CBD experience is weekend riding as my commute doesn't take me anywhere near the city, and I do note that any cycle infrastructure is a milestone and great.

It's disappointing shall we say to have a newly completely cycleway (Union St) hobbled in my case by contact red lights and sensors that don't trigger at all. Certainly the CoS has the vision, and the RTA does it's best to ruin it.
n = 3 for now

Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby wombatK » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Boognoss wrote:It's disappointing shall we say to have a newly completely cycleway (Union St) hobbled in my case by contact red lights and sensors that don't trigger at all. Certainly the CoS has the vision, and the RTA does it's best to ruin it.

Did you try reporting it ? 131 700, but probably need the traffic light number from the nearby signal box. Or you could try their email feedback form http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index ... dback.form (it has a drop down box for the traffic lights reports).

Cheers
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5208
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Boognoss » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:49 pm

wombatK wrote:
Boognoss wrote:It's disappointing shall we say to have a newly completely cycleway (Union St) hobbled in my case by contact red lights and sensors that don't trigger at all. Certainly the CoS has the vision, and the RTA does it's best to ruin it.

Did you try reporting it ? 131 700, but probably need the traffic light number from the nearby signal box. Or you could try their email feedback form http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index ... dback.form (it has a drop down box for the traffic lights reports).

Cheers


No :oops: . I chose to vent on the internet instead.

Noted for futured reference though. Did I mention :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
n = 3 for now

Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5773
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

PreviousNext

Return to New South Wales

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit