Sydney Bike Lanes

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby sogood » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:46 pm

BigBadWOLF wrote:Having used mainly Bourke st Cycleway its frustrating pulling up at the lights and the cyclist in front is past the line and not on the sensors at the lights.

Then why don't you just stop at the sensor and trigger it?
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by BNA » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:47 pm

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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby gururug » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:47 pm

BigBadWOLF wrote:Having used mainly Bourke st Cycleway its frustrating pulling up at the lights and the cyclist in front is past the line and not on the sensors at the lights.

Does any one else have this issue as I know its frustrating as the lights take forever to change and if you miss the set cos of some fool trying to jump the lights its annoying.


LOL, most of the time I get the exact opposite. Pull up on the sensor and 5 people ride around me :shock:
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby BigBadWOLF » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:39 pm

I do stop on the sensor and activate it, how ever if others did the same it would make the commute so much faster and less stressful (not to metion you would not be breaking any laws by creaping and jumping reds)

Guru I have no probs for a cyclist passing to at a stopped lights who will take off on a green its the slow rider who idle up past you with no helmet who think they are too cool for school and sit in front of you.. then they take off at snails pace..

well thats my whinge for the day.
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby wombatK » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:28 pm

BigBadWOLF wrote:I do stop on the sensor and activate it, how ever if others did .

You don't have to stay on top of the sensor for it to be effective. Magnetic loop sensors do
no more than detect a disturbance in the magnetic field created by the metal in your bike and
it doesn't matter how long that disturbance lasts for. It counts the change only.

It's very likely that they are only looking for a single disturbance (=rider), because if they
wanted to register/count cyclists arriving at the intersection, they'd have the magnetic loop back
further from the stop line (e.g 10 or 20 m back, as you see in car lanes). So it makes no
difference whether you or someone else or both of you ride over the sensor.

Conceptually, they could try to count the number of cyclists proceeding thru the intersection
on green, and adjust subsequent phasing if cyclist traffic volumes are high. I haven't used the
lanes enough in peak hour to know if this is happening, but the general complaints about the
lights diabolical phasing doesn't suggest it is done.

The main trouble with the cycle lane sensors is that they are not tuned correctly and simply
fail to register properly. As a cyclist, you should no more have to worry about where
to ride over them (or stop on them) than do motorist have to consider that when driving.
If the sensor is not behaving like this, ring the RTA reporting line (it's on the traffic light control
box, where you'll also find the identifying number for the lights) and request that it be fixed.

Cheers
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby maestro » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:23 pm

wombatK wrote:You don't have to stay on top of the sensor for it to be effective. Magnetic loop sensors do
no more than detect a disturbance in the magnetic field created by the metal in your bike and
it doesn't matter how long that disturbance lasts for. It counts the change only.


Actually, that's not true. I decided to take a stand about one set of lights on my daily commute that didn't pick up cyclists (the road I approached on has very little traffic and so I would only ever see a red light) and if I waited two cycles without a green then I would ring the traffic light fault line from my mobile. One time I was talking to them as a car pulled up on my left (there is a left-turn lane) and the operator asked me if there was a car there. The car then crept across the line and left the sensor and the operator asked me what had happened. The car didn't get his green arrow and had to wait until the operator triggered the lights so that I could cross straight ahead. The funny thing was that the driver had his window down and would have been able to hear me discussing how he wasn't going to get a green light as he had crossed the line.

Oh, and as a point of interest... After repeated refusals to fix the sensors, one day I was waiting at the lights with a car behind me and it didn't pick me up, so I rang up next day with the reverse situation... "I was waiting behind a cyclist in my *car* and the lights didn't trigger, can you please fix them". It took less than a week for them to be fixed and I haven't had any issues at that intersection since.
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Nate » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:06 am

wombatK wrote:You don't have to stay on top of the sensor for it to be effective. Magnetic loop sensors do
no more than detect a disturbance in the magnetic field created by the metal in your bike and
it doesn't matter how long that disturbance lasts for. It counts the change only.

It's very likely that they are only looking for a single disturbance (=rider), because if they
wanted to register/count cyclists arriving at the intersection, they'd have the magnetic loop back
further from the stop line (e.g 10 or 20 m back, as you see in car lanes). So it makes no
difference whether you or someone else or both of you ride over the sensor.


not really - there's 2 modes the sensors operate in - locking & non-locking, typically it depends on whether they could be false triggered (i.e. a truck turning that has to go wide & accidentally trips off the sensor).
If it is in non-locking then you MUST remain on the sensor for it to give you the requierd phase. Otherwise when you move off it - it cancels the request for your phase.

Between 7 & 7 all CBD features for bicycles & peds have an automatic demand - so you never have to press/trigger them.
If a sensor fails - the system detects it & it automatically goes into full demand (i.e. triggered every cycle).

correct that they dont do counts - only feature activation.
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Sydguy » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:22 pm

There must be a lot of broken sensors, I don't get greens quite often whilst sitting on the sensor between 7am and 7pm.

In a lot of cases I will roll when the peds get a green man.

Even this morning coming in them west the lights in Glebe, green for ped and no green for bike. Why would they not just green the bike when the peds are green?

It makes no difference to the cars. In fact it would be safe as so many bikes roll through on a green man.

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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:40 pm

Nate wrote:Between 7 & 7 all CBD features for bicycles & peds have an automatic demand - so you never have to press/trigger them.
If a sensor fails - the system detects it & it automatically goes into full demand (i.e. triggered every cycle).

Nate, if I remember correctly you have done a lot of work with the RTA on the Kent St bike path, but your comment does not fit with my experience.
The only bicycle lane I use in the cbd is King St from Sussex to Clarence streets - On some of the intersections there is a pressure pad rather than a magnetic sensor. King & Kent St would appear to be an auto trigger, but neither sussex nor clarence streets would appear to be.

Not sure if they count as cbd, but only one of the sensors in St Pyrmont are on auto trigger - Miller & Harris St. Of the others, Union & Pyrmont usually works, Union & Edward St almost never works (5 times in 12 months), Pyrmont Bridge & Murray St works erratically.

I have been meaning to call the RTA reporting line, but I am struggling to find the light control boxes.
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby mianos » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:30 pm

I would be stunned if anyone from the RTA, or whatever they are called, has ever actually ridden up the Bourke St bike path. The sensors are a total fail. Particularly the one on the corner of Bourke and Cleveland. They simply don't work reliably even if you stop your bike right on top of the diamonds. I use that bike lane multiple times a day (at least 2, mostly more).
When I rang them up they said they do check them and they work, although that's quite possibly a ploy to get a cyclist off the phone as quickly as possible.
I assume the people who you occasionally see standing around those intersections nodding to each other with clipboards are the people who check them. Probably checking to make sure they don't impede the flow of car traffic and so broken ones get double ticks and maybe a "Mr Todd says 'good Job'" stamp in that case, idiots.
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby find_bruce » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:59 pm

I reported observed faults at Union & Pyrmont & Union & Edward St tonight - will see if anything changes.
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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Sydguy » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:02 am

I would not concern yourself about bike lanes anymore. BOF has taken control over Sydney traffic management.

He will have 4 reps and Clover will have 3 on some new panel that is probably costing us more tax dollars for worse outcomes.

The great bike lane experiment is over.

Read the comments in the Telegraph, Grumpy Fred from Gosrord - he can't spell his suburb and he lives no where near the Sydney local council area.

How do you fight this ignorance? People who drive in and out of town generally don't hang around, spend their $ or enjoy the city.

We are well past a day of action - And can you hear BNSW advocating?? Someone tel them to pipe down, it is getting embarrassing!

Absolutely furious. This emboldens drivers to push us off the road, watch the close shaves escalate.

If your in a good mood DO NOT READ THE TELEGRAPH. You will cry.

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Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby longshanks » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:35 am

i
Sydguy wrote:If your in a good mood DO NOT READ THE TELEGRAPH. You will cry.


..or laugh. My expectations of the comments section of any Tele article regarding cycling is always so low that they are always realised. You will never change the opinions of those whose minds are closed on this subject. And concerning any comment from BNSW..where is the tumbleweeds emoticon?
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