Sydney Bike Lanes

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Boognoss » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:15 pm

hannos wrote:So it is!
Still, why would they implement 'solution' that is inherently more dangerous than riding on the road? New riders aren't going to anticipate a dooring until they recover from their first one, and that's likely to put them off completely. Those that do anticipate it ride in the lane.


Call me cynical, but perhaps that option is offered by the RTA purely so that they can say such lanes are official facilities when it would be better not to. Almost like not doing it and saying they did.

The bike lanes in the document are wider than many I've seen in practice on some narrow streets.
2011ish Avanti Quantum (DIY), 2010 Specialized Tricross, 2010 Salsa Casseroll

Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5796
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

by BNA » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:09 pm

BNA
 

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby BikingMarco » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:09 pm

I firmly believe these new bike lanes will show their real potential in the future. As many others have said before, they will have an impact on people’s decisions to take up cycling in the first place. These new lanes do suggest that it is no longer as dangerous to cycle in the city as it is currently perceived by many. Over time hopefully they will help in increasing the numbers of cyclists. And once that happens and a critical mass is achieved, who knows, traffic light timings might change in our favour, give way rules, where bike paths intersect with roads, might be amended. Once we pick up in numbers, car drivers will become more used to cyclists and hopefully check more often before turning or opening doors. Point being – we need a critical mass and best way of getting one is to encourage people to take up cycling. A good way of doing this, is to provide separated bike paths along long stretches of busy roads. Which the city is doing right now.
Also, it is hard to judge the benefits of the bike paths before the system is completed to a higher degree. Bourke St/Bourke Rd for example is still under construction in parts. If the City goes ahead with their cycling strategy than theses paths currently being built will be part of a wider network and that will be of major benefits for us.
Sure, the paths we have now are good in concept but flawed in details. But details can change.
For my part I can’t wait for the Kent Street path to be opened which will make my daily commute from the Harbour Bridge towards QVB much less hair raising as any of the current options.
In answer to the OP: yes, I use bike paths where provided daily (Bourke St, William St and in future Kent St). I find, with some awareness, they provide a faster option than travelling on the road in peak hour traffic because peak hour traffic often blocks the road to a degree where even bicycles can’t sneak through.
User avatar
BikingMarco
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:50 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Nate » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:01 pm

The times are in...

Cycling along King St from the start to the finish of the bike lane:

On the road with the cars: 1minute flat
In the bike lane stopping at every red light: 4min 35sec
In the bike lane running every red light: 1min flat

Pretty obvious!
User avatar
Nate
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:49 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby zero » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:06 pm

4min+ is the average figure for obeying the King st lights. The worst part about it - is that the same time applies on Sunday when there is no car traffic. I've seen pedestrians on a sunday that I was ahead of at Sussex st, complete the length of the bicycle lane faster than I did whilst obeying the lights, on a sunday when there was no car traffic to "give way" too. You can understand why I don't want all sydney streets to carry bicycle lanes of similar designs.

The reason the RTA does this, is that it has a system of classifying routes. Once it became a bicycle lane, the RTA will then classify the bicycle part as being a local bicycle route, and the roads as all being a regional roads, therefore the regional road should have absolute lights priority. This is not even a safety issue with the timings, and wherever bicycle lanes are put in, you can be sure that the RTA will set the bicycle lane to the lowest priority classification.

When you look at the lights up there, you are as much looking at the red tape as anything else.
zero
 
Posts: 2632
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby zero » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:07 pm

So what is that average btw - 3km/hr ?
zero
 
Posts: 2632
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby x8pg2qr » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:12 pm

zero wrote:4min+ is the average figure for obeying the King st lights. The worst part about it - is that the same time applies on Sunday when there is no car traffic. I've seen pedestrians on a sunday that I was ahead of at Sussex st, complete the length of the bicycle lane faster than I did whilst obeying the lights, on a sunday when there was no car traffic to "give way" too. You can understand why I don't want all sydney streets to carry bicycle lanes of similar designs.


That’s cool, you’ll still have your wish. Because not all Sydney streets will have these bicycle lanes, or even any bicycle infrastructure. Or even majority of Sydney streets. Or even a significant percentage of them. Motorised transport will still be the primary beast on most Sydney roads, and clever bicycle riders can mix it up there.

zero wrote:The reason the RTA does this, is that it has a system of classifying routes. Once it became a bicycle lane, the RTA will then classify the bicycle part as being a local bicycle route, and the roads as all being a regional roads, therefore the regional road should have absolute lights priority. This is not even a safety issue with the timings, and wherever bicycle lanes are put in, you can be sure that the RTA will set the bicycle lane to the lowest priority classification.

When you look at the lights up there, you are as much looking at the red tape as anything else.


The reason RTA does this, is there are not enough riders to effectively protest the stupid lights that the RTA controls.
User avatar
x8pg2qr
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Boognoss » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:51 pm

I gave the new cycleway through Ultimo today heading in to the city from Anzac Bridge.
It's such a nice shade of green, and good at the last crossing to Pyrmont Bridge vs the shemozzle that existed before.
Some of the bike crossing lights didn't work (at all - never triggered) and in true RTA style there was no such thing as a run of green lights, just every single red along the way.
The RTA couldn't organise a booze up in a brewery. CoS has great ideas, completely destroyed in implementation by the RTA. A bit like the rest of NSW planning. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
2011ish Avanti Quantum (DIY), 2010 Specialized Tricross, 2010 Salsa Casseroll

Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5796
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:18 pm

The issue is that the RTA treats cyclists as pedestrians. The bike lights go red when the pedestrian light goes off.

Sydney City Council put in a fine piece of bike path on King st only to have it ruined by the RTA. Previously it took about a minute to ride up King st and now it takes at least 5.
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14813
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby wombatK » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:58 pm

zero wrote:So what is that average btw - 3km/hr ?

King St cycleway from Sussex to Clarence St is about 200 m. So average speed with the cars is 12 kph, obeying the red lights 2.7 kph - about half the speed I walk at.

Can anyone tell me why I need a cycleway that delivers half of walking speed ? COS could've save bucketloads of money (at least $4.3 million) and just erected a sign "walk bikes from here", and we'd all be a lot better off.

There's almost zero chance that cycleways will attract any permanent converts to cycling if they deliver less than walking speed. They will have the opposite effect.

About the only way we might get people cycling to work is to change the road rules so that, like cyclists on the cycleways, motorists have to give way to everything at every intersection (including cyclists, pedestrians and other cars). Such a rule might just sabotage motoring in the way that the RTA has sabotaged the cycleways.
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Boognoss » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:25 pm

wombatK wrote: Such a rule might just sabotage motoring in the way that the RTA has sabotaged the cycleways.


Oh God no, that can't possibly happen. Motor vehicles of course own the roads and everything else is incidental......

Sorry, I think I was channeling the spirit of a 10000 yr old RTA exec. :lol: :wink:

I think I'm having a cynical day........
2011ish Avanti Quantum (DIY), 2010 Specialized Tricross, 2010 Salsa Casseroll

Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5796
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby radiohead » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:04 pm

Go to 3mins into this - there is a thing where they have flashing lights indicating cars to beware of cyclists coming and to give way to them. This would work well on King Street.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZJlweUTqXY
radiohead
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:59 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Ross » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:26 am

ACF and in particular hannos is famous - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/c ... 5919806833
Image
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby wombatK » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:14 am

Ross wrote:ACF and in particular hannos is famous - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/c ... 5919806833

King St has moved to Newtown :roll: Wonder if the quote from the Premier is any more accurate
Even NSW Premier Kristina Keneally, a daily cycle commuter, detests the Bourke Rd and Bourke St lanes, saying via Twitter in July: "I have opposed the City of Sydney's Bourke St cycleway for some time now. There are better alternatives."

Can't wait to see what her proposed alternatives are. Wonder if it's the proposed 40 kph city limit and 10 kph shared streets
http://smh.drive.com.au/roads-and-traff ... 156zc.html
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Christine Tham » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:31 am

Ross wrote:ACF and in particular hannos is famous - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/c ... 5919806833


Thanks for posting the link to the article. I wish the original poster had taken the trouble to do this, but that's a minor quibble.

Interesting read - not sure I agree with it, but it's a valid perspective.
Weekdays: "Bliss" (Trek Madone 5.2 2012) | Weekends: "Cadel" (self built) | Casual: "Kitty" (Giant Cypress LDS 2009)
User avatar
Christine Tham
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:45 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Old and Rusty » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:57 am

Has anyone noticed in the Copenhagen clip he states that have been working on the cycling infrastructure for 30 years? I think ours are a little rushed and not planned as well as could be but hopefully we'll see an evolution as they learn from mistakes.
"scaffolders, where learning to walk upright is in the training manual"
2011 Jamis Ventura Elite
2011 Pinarello FPQ
User avatar
Old and Rusty
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:40 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby x8pg2qr » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:58 am

wombatK wrote:
Ross wrote:ACF and in particular hannos is famous - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/c ... 5919806833

King St has moved to Newtown :roll: Wonder if the quote from the Premier is any more accurate
Even NSW Premier Kristina Keneally, a daily cycle commuter, detests the Bourke Rd and Bourke St lanes, saying via Twitter in July: "I have opposed the City of Sydney's Bourke St cycleway for some time now. There are better alternatives."

Can't wait to see what her proposed alternatives are. Wonder if it's the proposed 40 kph city limit and 10 kph shared streets
http://smh.drive.com.au/roads-and-traff ... 156zc.html


Her actual quote was “@fifimurray I have opposed the City of Sydney's Bourke St cycleway (in Heffron) for some time now. There are better alternatives.”
http://twitter.com/KKeneally/status/18962759219

How that translates to detesting Bourke Road, is Daily Telegraph logic.

From article:
The Daily Telegraph spent a month commuting on the derided Bourke Rd bike lanes, a route beginning at Beaconsfield that will eventually, for some bizarre reason, lead to Russell Crowe's house in Woolloomooloo rather than the CBD.


We should just close Bourke Road and Bourke Street down completely; surely cars only want to go to the CBD.

You can find complainers for every sort of bicycle infrastructure:
Bike lanes under cars: complain
Bicycle stencils on roads: complain
Shared paths: complain
Road shoulders: complain
Separated bicycle paths: complain

When DT wants to target a particular a particular infrastructure: DT will just choose to highlight complaints; suddenly all the other “infrastructure” is fine. Make no mistake, this is a anti-Clover article.
User avatar
x8pg2qr
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Nate » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:18 am

Ross wrote:ACF and in particular hannos is famous - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/c ... 5919806833


WT?!!! somone's 1/2inched my 2Murrays interview! & put it over the footage!
User avatar
Nate
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:49 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby hannos » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:55 am

What did he use my comments for? There were plenty of better opinions in thsi thread than mine!

WOW lots of Clover-bashing in the comments section. Seems every bogan that drives a car reads the DT...
2010 BMC SLC01
Image
User avatar
hannos
 
Posts: 4024
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:18 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby Nate » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:38 am

Thats also my footage at the start of the clip!
Time for some watermarks me thinks...
User avatar
Nate
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:49 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby ghettro » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:28 pm

ugh, reading the comments makes my head hurt.
User avatar
ghettro
 
Posts: 960
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:38 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby x8pg2qr » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:34 pm

ghettro wrote:ugh, reading the comments makes my head hurt.


Here’s something to cheer you up:

Code: Select all
<Zybl0re> get up
<Zybl0re> get on up
<Zybl0re> get up
<Zybl0re> get on up
<phxl|paper> and DANCE
* nmp3bot dances :D-<
* nmp3bot dances :D|-<
* nmp3bot dances :D/-<
<[SA]HatfulOfHollow> i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet

Source
User avatar
x8pg2qr
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby anonymous_ » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:58 pm

He got you lot hook line and sinker.

Don't you realise Alan Jones has the Tele in his pocket and is using them for his number one crusade, to have the bike lanes in Sydney ripped up! For gods sake he has stated he will run for Lord Major on that agenda.

Next time engage your brains before typing!

And stop whinging, at least someone is building some infastructure for us. Why not wait till it is finished and connects up rather than criticising it.

You lot have have helped set the cause back and insight more hatred against us.
anonymous_
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:34 pm

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby simonn » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:12 pm

anonymous_ wrote:You lot have have helped set the cause back and insight more hatred against us.


Hatred against anonymous posters on he internet?
Image
User avatar
simonn
 
Posts: 3599
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby DaveOZ » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:29 pm

With all the new 40km/h Sydney city speed limits announced today, does this mean police will now be targeting cyclists for speeding in the city? Lets face it, they are the only ones who will ever exceed 40 in the CBD.
Image
User avatar
DaveOZ
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Bowral NSW

Re: Sydney Bike Lanes

Postby trailgumby » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:33 pm

Now, who was calling me unduly harsh when it came to (alleged) journalists at the Daily Telegraph? ;-)

I've seen these guys (and girls) in action many times. The article was pretty much what I was expecting.

Remember this: their main aim is to provoke an emotional response, which they achieve by being sensational. That gets eyes on paper, which they then sell to advertisers for a better bottom line.

The truth comes a distant second.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

PreviousNext

Return to New South Wales

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit