Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby diggler » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:28 am

Old and Rusty wrote:
diggler wrote:http://www.bicyclensw.org.au/content/spring-cycle-fundraising

Only $5 goes to charity.

Entry fee also doesn't include insurance.

Spring Cycle riders who are Bicycle NSW members are covered under Bicycle NSW Member insurance which includes Personal Accident and Public Liability cover. Spring Cycle riders who are not Bicycle NSW members are not covered from this insurance.

I guess if you have to pay for all the cops, it does cost money.

City to Surf costs $60 and it has sold out. Sydney people obviously don't think it is too expensive.


I thought that costs of fundraising weren't allowed to exceed 50% in NSW

This is from the NSW Govt Fact Sheet

"Fundraising expenses
Persons or organisations conducting appeals
for donations only must take all reasonable
steps to ensure that total expenses payable do
not amount to more than 50% of the
gross proceeds.
In all other forms of fundraising, such as the
sale of goods and services, the return must be
fair and reasonable."

Perhaps they have some kind of dispensation.


I don't think the ride is primarily a fundraiser. I think the provision you are referring to is more like the Salvation Army must not use up more than 50% of donations from fundraising in costs.
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by BNA » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:57 pm

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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby bicyclensw » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:57 pm

Both Spring Cycle Routes have been confirmed and have now been posted on the Spring Cycle website. Check them out at http://www.springcycle.com.au

These clips also give you a bit of an idea of what you'll see on the day.


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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby wombatK » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:07 am

It looks like the classic route is quite a bit different around SOP this year. It will cross via the Rhodes/Meadowbank cycleway bridge, then follow the Parramatta River cycleway from Meadowbank to Silverwater, and cross back to the southern side of the river at the Silverwater Bridge.

The footpath across the Silverwater bridge is quite narrow. It is bumpy (particularly a large bump at the Southern end) and it is difficult for cyclists to pass in opposite directions in single file on MTB width handlebars. So it is very unsuitable for the volume of cyclists taking part in the Spring Cycle. Additionally, the hairpin turn from the cycleway onto the bridge at the northern end is difficult and has poor sight lines of any pedestrian or other cyclists approaching from the North on the footpath. The footpath on the western side of the bridge is no better.

There could be huge delays and safety issues around here, unless BNSW and the RTA are planning to close a lane of the road and remove fence panels etc.,. to allow a safer route across the bridge.

For the record, I have emailed my concerns to BNSW, but their answer is that there will be further details of the route in coming weeks. Does not inspire confidence.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby CommuRider » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:36 am

wombatK wrote:It looks like the classic route is quite a bit different around SOP this year. It will cross via the Rhodes/Meadowbank cycleway bridge, then follow the Parramatta River cycleway from Meadowbank to Silverwater, and cross back to the southern side of the river at the Silverwater Bridge.

The footpath across the Silverwater bridge is quite narrow.


Glad you have contacted them @wombatK. They can't say they were warned!

I dunno how they would get several thousands of cyclists across Silverwater Bridge! It could be steep for some cyclists esp those with little kiddies with them, on the footpath you would seriously only get two cyclists across - max. If they are thinking of closing one lane, that bridge is an 80, 70km/h zone with trucks?!!!! That part of the route doesn't seem safe at all.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby queequeg » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:44 am

wombatK wrote:It looks like the classic route is quite a bit different around SOP this year. It will cross via the Rhodes/Meadowbank cycleway bridge, then follow the Parramatta River cycleway from Meadowbank to Silverwater, and cross back to the southern side of the river at the Silverwater Bridge.

The footpath across the Silverwater bridge is quite narrow. It is bumpy (particularly a large bump at the Southern end) and it is difficult for cyclists to pass in opposite directions in single file on MTB width handlebars. So it is very unsuitable for the volume of cyclists taking part in the Spring Cycle. Additionally, the hairpin turn from the cycleway onto the bridge at the northern end is difficult and has poor sight lines of any pedestrian or other cyclists approaching from the North on the footpath. The footpath on the western side of the bridge is no better.

There could be huge delays and safety issues around here, unless BNSW and the RTA are planning to close a lane of the road and remove fence panels etc.,. to allow a safer route across the bridge.

For the record, I have emailed my concerns to BNSW, but their answer is that there will be further details of the route in coming weeks. Does not inspire confidence.


I'd also add that the new route goes right along the Newington Armoury Wharf and past the new playground. This is an area of very high pedestrian activity, and in past years was always part of the optional extension to the ride. It looks like this year, everyone has to come through here. That is a lot of bicycles coming past the cafe and picnic tables!
Also, as with years past, the choke point at James Craig Dr/The Crescent remains. Thousands of cyclists backed up waiting for the lights to change, then funnelled over to a single narrow road shoulder.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby wombatK » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:59 pm

CommuRider wrote:I dunno how they would get several thousands of cyclists across Silverwater Bridge! It could be steep for some cyclists esp those with little kiddies with them, on the footpath you would seriously only get two cyclists across - max. If they are thinking of closing one lane, that bridge is an 80, 70km/h zone with trucks?!!!! That part of the route doesn't seem safe at all.

It's a Sunday, so there is not much industrial traffic. Would be practical to close a southbound lane of the bridge; there would be clear sight of the lane closure for cars coming from the North. But to be doubly sure, they should post a temporary 40 kph speed limit from Victoria Road south.

That's about the only way I can think of keeping it safe across the bridge.

As for the Armory playground, the shared path along there has a 10 kph speed limit. Nevertheless, I think it would be very sensible to add some temporary barriers along the side to stop ankle-bighters running onto the path; or better still, close off the equipment on the embankment for the morning. It's much busier with kids there than last year due to the popularity of the new playground equipment.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby CommuRider » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:46 pm

It would make sense just to bypass the Armory and go via Holker if the finishing line is the same as last year ie Stadium.

I am getting bad vibes about the Silverwater Rd route. Esp a mass of cyclists with little kiddies :|
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby wombatK » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:08 pm

CommuRider wrote:It would make sense just to bypass the Armory and go via Holker if the finishing line is the same as last year ie Stadium.

Agree totally. Could use the bus-road, along Holker and possibly left at Jameson Rd to get back to the river-front scenery - that'd be nicer than the eastern end of Holker Rd.

Took a more careful look at the Silverwater Bridge on my ride this afternoon. Will be a challenge to make the lane closure - would have to start just as the Victoria Rd entry lane ends, so traffic would be shuffling across two lanes. The abominations we've suffered at James Craig Rd/Victoria Rd leaves me thinking this would really delight the RTA :roll:

On a positive note, there were heaps more riders around Silverwater Bridge and the Armory this afternoon. A very clear Cadel effect:)

Cheers
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby Xplora » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:15 pm

60 bucks to ride on public roads? I can understand a fee for the fundraising and so forth, but you're drinking the Koolade if you think that 60 bucks is a reasonable sum to pay for this event. 10 bucks for the organisation is all I can tolerate - it's worth remembering that we all pay taxes and these are public facilities. If you were getting a meal at the end or proper drinks on the way (bottle of Coke, coffee at the end) then that justifies some of it, but if the public can't wait a couple hours for some pootlers once a year then the public needs to reassess their definition of public (or let me stop paying taxes!)
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Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby Boognoss » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:13 am

I agree, and for some of the roads you can't usually ride on just do the annual Critical Mass ride over the Cahill Expressway and SHB ;-).



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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby wombatK » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:26 am

Xplora wrote:60 bucks to ride on public roads? I can understand a fee for the fundraising and so forth, but you're drinking the Koolade if you think that 60 bucks is a reasonable sum to pay for this event.

So you think it's a massive rip-off ? Rather than whinge here, why don't you organize a similar event for, let's say, $20 per person. We'll even let you keep the extra $10. So you can expect 10,000 entries x $10 clear profit - there's a cool $100K waiting for your taking.

That's after you've paid for all the traffic control measures, spents months negotiating the route with the RTA and police, hired people to staff every street corner, knocked up signs over the whole 50 km etc.,., paid for advertising, publicity, etc.,. etc.,. As a for-profit event, you might have to sling a few $ towards the police to get them out to manage a few critical intersections. But, of course, you're clever enough to do all that for a measly $10 per rider.

And the best part of it is that you'll have it all to yourself - nobody beside you and BNSW have seized the opportunity. Just let us know when we can sign up - maybe Chris will give you a discount on advertising to BNA members.

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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:34 pm

As tempting as your challenge is, I have a choice - just not go. I did it 3-4 years ago with my wife, when she was the rider and I wasn't, and it was horrible for the last 10kms (LMAO). It's a fantastic ride, but you just have to question the logic behind it all. The event has the public interest at the forefront, it shouldn't cost money like it does. I have no intention of competing, I have a life and this forum and my daily commute is about as enthusiastic as I can get about riding. These events don't get people riding every day, they are a fun event for the family and a few tough nuts.

I think critical mass riding would be a far more useful signal to the city. Even 500 riders taking the route would be enough to get the media's attention and the public's interest. If you were doing it for a charity of note (MS Society, Make a Wish etc) then you'd even be able to hide from the huge aggro that you'd cause :lol:

It did occur to me that an "Autumn Cycle" would be cool LOL

Might be an idea. How to get a critical mass ride sorted. Where would we go, why would we bother? LOL
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby queequeg » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:22 pm

wombatK wrote:
Xplora wrote:60 bucks to ride on public roads? I can understand a fee for the fundraising and so forth, but you're drinking the Koolade if you think that 60 bucks is a reasonable sum to pay for this event.

So you think it's a massive rip-off ? Rather than whinge here, why don't you organize a similar event for, let's say, $20 per person. We'll even let you keep the extra $10. So you can expect 10,000 entries x $10 clear profit - there's a cool $100K waiting for your taking.

That's after you've paid for all the traffic control measures, spents months negotiating the route with the RTA and police, hired people to staff every street corner, knocked up signs over the whole 50 km etc.,., paid for advertising, publicity, etc.,. etc.,. As a for-profit event, you might have to sling a few $ towards the police to get them out to manage a few critical intersections. But, of course, you're clever enough to do all that for a measly $10 per rider.

And the best part of it is that you'll have it all to yourself - nobody beside you and BNSW have seized the opportunity. Just let us know when we can sign up - maybe Chris will give you a discount on advertising to BNA members.

Cheers


Playing Devil's Advocate here: as Bicycles are vehicles under NSW Road Rules, what would happen if 10,000 cyclists just happened to show up at the same place at the same time and all wanted to cycle to the same destination? Would they require a traffic management plan, insurance, marshalls, police escorts and signage?
Afterall, if 10,000 motor vehicles all showed up at Nth Sydney and wanted to drive to Olympic Park, aside from creating a huge traffic jam, they wouldn't need to have police & RTA approval, nor any traffic management plan etc. I am not sure why it is any different for bicycles. At what point does the number of people travelling the same route trigger the requirement for "Special Event" clearance? I've been in a group of 100+ cyclists before, and we've managed quite well without any red tape. Afterall, we're just vehicles using the road like everyone else.

Now, I've done the Spring Cycle twice before. Once on my own, once with my wife. Both times I have experienced the same problems, which is that other than the SHB and a few roads in the city, the route is not in fact a closed course. Yes, you share the road with cars. I watched as oblivious cyclists rode on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic, I watched them ride 10 abreast and ignore give way signs galore. So, the entry fee is not paying for the RTA & Police to close the course to motor vehicles, although you are given this impression by the course marshals.

Bottom line. It costs money to stage a large event. $60 is probably about right. The City2Surf this weekend costs $65 for an Adult Entry, and that is only 14km long, so $60 is hardly outrageous for a 50km cycling event. As with everything, you do have a choice to not participate. I think if you do enter it, you just have to be realistic about what it is. The spring cycle is not a race for once thing, and it is nothing like the Sydney to Wollongong. It's more like a 3 hour cruise, with lots of stops for coffee & cake. if it is a Sunny day (and not the freezing cold gale force winds we had last time I did it!), it is a great day out. Just don't expect to be setting any speed records. if you want to ride it quickly, be there at 6:30am and ride the course when it is empty.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:33 pm

What if 10,000 motor vehicles showed up and drove down the M4 at 20kmh the whole length!?

Oh wait, that's every day in peak hour :lol:
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby wombatK » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:11 pm

queequeg wrote:Playing Devil's Advocate here: as Bicycles are vehicles under NSW Road Rules, what would happen if 10,000 cyclists just happened to show up at the same place at the same time and all wanted to cycle to the same destination? Would they require a traffic management plan, insurance, marshalls, police escorts and signage?

Well, that's a bit like what the Critical Mass people do - and that just gets motorists and bus commuters totally off-side. Not a way to go
After all, if 10,000 motor vehicles all showed up at Nth Sydney and wanted to drive to Olympic Park, aside from creating a huge traffic jam, they wouldn't need to have police & RTA approval, nor any traffic management plan etc.


Strongly expect they would. In the past, truck drivers have tried to organise protests by driving in to Macquarie St in large enough numbers to disrupt CBD traffic significantly. There's a point at which it could be argued their effect if not their intent is to obstruct traffic - and that is illegal.

There are also more general laws relating to unlawful assembly. Only takes 5 or more people to trigger the provisions of the Summary Offences Act, and 3 for common law provisions.

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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby queequeg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:58 pm

wombatK wrote:Well, that's a bit like what the Critical Mass people do - and that just gets motorists and bus commuters totally off-side. Not a way to go


I am not sure how it is different to the 10,000 motor vehicles that try to leave the CBD at 5pm every weeknight. It causes a massive traffic jam, but I don't see any special event arrangements in place.

wombatK wrote:
Strongly expect they would. In the past, truck drivers have tried to organise protests by driving in to Macquarie St in large enough numbers to disrupt CBD traffic significantly. There's a point at which it could be argued their effect if not their intent is to obstruct traffic - and that is illegal.

There are also more general laws relating to unlawful assembly. Only takes 5 or more people to trigger the provisions of the Summary Offences Act, and 3 for common law provisions.

Cheers


I am not talking about an organised event, I am saying that if a large number of cars all wanted to go from A to B at the same time, which is basically what happens every morning and afternoon during the week, they are not obstructing traffic, they ARE traffic. So, why is that a large number of vehicles that happen to be bicycles, require special event clearance to do the same thing. Under NSW Road Rules, it is not an offence to travel slower than other vehicles (Rule 125), so 10,000 bicycles are not obstructing traffic, they ARE traffic. The Road Rules say that if you are over 12, you MUST ride on the road (in NSW). So, it might annoy the heck out of motorists, but that is what the rules say and there is not much they can do about it.
Maybe one day we'll get to a tipping point, where cars are considered the obstructions, holding up all the cyclists trying to get to work!
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby find_bruce » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:03 am

queequeg wrote:I am not sure how it is different to the 10,000 motor vehicles that try to leave the CBD at 5pm every weeknight. It causes a massive traffic jam, but I don't see any special event arrangements in place.


That's because you are thinking like a person rather than a lawyer :)

One of the critical elements of the offence under section 545C of the Crimes Act is intent. To be an unlawful intent there must be an intent to intimidate or injure. The intent of commuters is to go home.
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Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby queequeg » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:05 pm

find_bruce wrote:
queequeg wrote:I am not sure how it is different to the 10,000 motor vehicles that try to leave the CBD at 5pm every weeknight. It causes a massive traffic jam, but I don't see any special event arrangements in place.


That's because you are thinking like a person rather than a lawyer :)

One of the critical elements of the offence under section 545C of the Crimes Act is intent. To be an unlawful intent there must be an intent to intimidate or injure. The intent of commuters is to go home.


Who says the cyclists aren't trying to go home too?
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby wombatK » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:54 pm

queequeg wrote:Who says the cyclists aren't trying to go home too?

To put it back on-topic, the spring cyclists are intending to assemble at North Sydney Oval, and ride together to SOP.

So it needs proper authorisation - and all the work that entails to prepare traffic management plans etc.,. That's what the entry fee pays for.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby find_bruce » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:41 am

If you are too cheap to pay, you could always try volunteering
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby CommuRider » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:18 pm

Like last year I will be at the finishing line cheering my friend on :-)

Any updates on the route yet? Told her about the Silverwater Rd route....hope they fix that soon.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:02 pm

wombatK wrote:
queequeg wrote:Who says the cyclists aren't trying to go home too?

To put it back on-topic, the spring cyclists are intending to assemble at North Sydney Oval, and ride together to SOP.

So it needs proper authorisation - and all the work that entails to prepare traffic management plans etc.,. That's what the entry fee pays for.

I would love to know what laws this would break. Honestly. The idea of organising a ride seems to be tickling my fancy. Autumn Audax? Summer Cycle? March Mass Ride? The Winter Wipeout? :oops:
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby find_bruce » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:54 pm

wombatK wrote:So it needs proper authorisation - and all the work that entails to prepare traffic management plans etc.,. That's what the entry fee pays for.

Xplora wrote:I would love to know what laws this would break. Honestly. The idea of organising a ride seems to be tickling my fancy. Autumn Audax? Summer Cycle? March Mass Ride? The Winter Wipeout? :oops:


What and spoil the surprise? "Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... "

If you are having difficulty sleeping, try reading the guvments oh so helpful guide to planning an event in NSW and don't forget the RTA's extra special events guide

The immediate reaction is likely to be from the police, possibly issueing directions under the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002, probably under part 12, but if you particularly annoy them, under part 6A.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby peter » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:10 pm

Received the entry kit last week, so check your letter box if you have signup for this event.
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Re: Spring Cycle 2011 - 16/10/2011 (Sunday)

Postby Sydguy » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:53 pm

Awaiting my entry kit.

Work recently decided to reimburse entry costs for all staff entering - very nice touch I think.

Do BNA people cycle together? If I don't see any work people I will be flying solo.

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