Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby markusm » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:29 pm

Hey Barry,

If you read this forum, which i doubt, but just in case you do;

Why is it not mentioned anywhere that people like me sat on the M5 for two hours tonight, and to stick the knife in further, the toll increased to $4.40 today!
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:17 pm

This is why I can see Drive 2 Work days being so effective. Potentially as disruptive without the obvious Us v Them
issues. As many cyclists as possible sacrificing one or two days a year to jam up our roads, while advertising the fact while they drive. Either window signage which can be easily removed or stuck in the boot when your car is unattended, or carrying the bike you'd normally ride to get the message across on the day.
And even if it wasn't a work trip, drive to the shos for the milk and bread and be a lazy bum for 10 minutes.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:21 pm

OR use public transport for a day and watch
a) the system collapse and
b) the Pollies go into panic mode
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby winstonw » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:22 pm

Maybe the CM antagonists would be happier if CMers protested by driving their cars instead.

Actually, it isn't such a bad bit of reverse psychology : leave their bikes at home, get in their cars, and increase the congestion...and maybe they could drive old cars prone to breaking down.

And maybe they could sweep all the glass and nails from the bikeways onto the roads.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Oxford » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:32 pm

MREJ wrote:
Oxford wrote:so consideration should be given to other road users and motorists should not drive during peak hours of road use? this is the irony I alluded to earlier. why is it OK for highways to be jammed with motor vehicles on long weekends because everyone massed towards a popular area. why is it OK for roads around schools, shopping centres, businesses, commercial/industrial areas et al to be jammed with masses of motor vehicles during peak use times? the hypocrisy is disturbing.


Hi Oxford

My point was about the apparent intention of CM to be disruptive towards other road users. I am not aware of any organised motorist groups setting out to do this (except the occasional truckies blockade). Certainly people using their cars for the purposes you mention are generally unlikely to be doing so for the reasons that appear to motivate CM. There isn't enough room on the roads for everyone at peak hour - we all know this - so while I think it's fair enough for all of us to use them, it's pretty inconsiderate to organise with others to do that en masse with the objective of adding to the problem. As to deliberately breaking the law that we also want to protect us (referred to on the CM website) ........

Bring on the day when cyclists all feel safe and welcome on the roads. Unfortunately, I don't think CM is bringing it any closer. The bigger this gets, the more people will want cyclists to stick to bike paths and suburban back streets.

Regards, Marcus

I agree with most of what you are saying, but the people complaining that CM only makes matters worse need to take the mirror out to see who is creating the problem and its not the cyclists. If the motorists actually switched on their brains and thought about it, yeah OK the CM is a PITA, but would they prefer those 300 or so riders in cars instead? I think we know the answer to that. I have organised and participated in a Drive To Work Day before, last year. It was a shame it didn't achieve the results desired, but if the CM organisers had their heads on straight it would be a far more effective method and certainly safer for participants. Just slowly driving around the block in the CBD with 20-30 cars for an hour would absolutely jam up the CBD in any state I reckon, imagine 300 cars doing it? And who knows who is in and who is out? No targets for police harassment. Would be a far better way of doing IMO.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby sogood » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:40 pm

winstonw wrote:Maybe the CM antagonists would be happier if CMers protested by driving their cars instead...

By observation, most of CM participants are pretty hard core and don't own a car.

In any case, the whole event fizzed. 40 cyclists and 20 police on bikes. Minimal disruption. The wet weather was probably a bit too wet and windy for a good turnout.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:00 pm

Oxford, I remember your Drive 2 Work Day and if I recall it raised some worthy press and a bit of understanding. Understanding that a CM would never see. I think its due for another trot IMO. Challenge?
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Addictr3 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:18 pm

I cant stop laughing how Barry got a say in this; obviously his state transport has nothing to do with congestion. No offence but those damn Metro buses are way to big for town hall, you see 3 of them all lined up on park street and say good night to trying to turn left if your in a car.. lucky for me. I dont dirve!

I can see why people think this event is a bad idea, heck I even got a text from a few mates as a joke (I am the cyclist out of all my mates) but logic is out the door these days :(
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:03 am

The concept is good, the execution sometimes leaves a little to be desired.

Maybe they need to have a flag on their bikes: "If I was in my car, you'd be even further from home."
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Oxford » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:48 am

The 2nd Womble wrote:Oxford, I remember your Drive 2 Work Day and if I recall it raised some worthy press and a bit of understanding. Understanding that a CM would never see. I think its due for another trot IMO. Challenge?

yeah managed to get on a couple of radio stations and even managed to turn Jamie Dunn's co-host against Jamie through the interview. that was hilarious.

I think to be successful, drive to work day participants actually need not to work on the day, so then they need not worry about parking, particularly in the CBD, they can just idle around creating congestion, morning and afternoon. no identifiers on the car, no targets for retribution then, just create congestion. done well it could gridlock the system and create mayhem, even shutdown the city. if done as a day off thing, the morning chaos could generate enough publicity to get an immediate audience, particularly with the government to seek guarantees of action for cyclist safety.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby jet-ski » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:38 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:OR use public transport for a day and watch
a) the system collapse and
b) the Pollies go into panic mode


This happens every day it rains in Perth - people choose the train over riding and as a result people can't get on to the train at the near-CBD stations cos they are too full.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby queequeg » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:19 pm

Oxford wrote:
The 2nd Womble wrote:Oxford, I remember your Drive 2 Work Day and if I recall it raised some worthy press and a bit of understanding. Understanding that a CM would never see. I think its due for another trot IMO. Challenge?

yeah managed to get on a couple of radio stations and even managed to turn Jamie Dunn's co-host against Jamie through the interview. that was hilarious.

I think to be successful, drive to work day participants actually need not to work on the day, so then they need not worry about parking, particularly in the CBD, they can just idle around creating congestion, morning and afternoon. no identifiers on the car, no targets for retribution then, just create congestion. done well it could gridlock the system and create mayhem, even shutdown the city. if done as a day off thing, the morning chaos could generate enough publicity to get an immediate audience, particularly with the government to seek guarantees of action for cyclist safety.


An interesting observation for Sydney is that as soon as school holidays start, the traffic volumes in peak hour drop by more than 50%. It is particularly noticeable going to and from the North-West where I live, to the point where a road that is normally bumper to bumper with traffic at a standstill, will overnight become completely empty like it was a public holiday.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Oxford » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:30 pm

queequeg wrote:
Oxford wrote:
The 2nd Womble wrote:Oxford, I remember your Drive 2 Work Day and if I recall it raised some worthy press and a bit of understanding. Understanding that a CM would never see. I think its due for another trot IMO. Challenge?

yeah managed to get on a couple of radio stations and even managed to turn Jamie Dunn's co-host against Jamie through the interview. that was hilarious.

I think to be successful, drive to work day participants actually need not to work on the day, so then they need not worry about parking, particularly in the CBD, they can just idle around creating congestion, morning and afternoon. no identifiers on the car, no targets for retribution then, just create congestion. done well it could gridlock the system and create mayhem, even shutdown the city. if done as a day off thing, the morning chaos could generate enough publicity to get an immediate audience, particularly with the government to seek guarantees of action for cyclist safety.


An interesting observation for Sydney is that as soon as school holidays start, the traffic volumes in peak hour drop by more than 50%. It is particularly noticeable going to and from the North-West where I live, to the point where a road that is normally bumper to bumper with traffic at a standstill, will overnight become completely empty like it was a public holiday.

the same happens in Brisbane and I dare say across the country in other major cities. combination of drop in school traffic and workers taking holidays.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Mapomatic » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:30 pm

CM is right. Cyclists have a legitimate right to the roads. What they are doing however is setting out to be a pita. They weren't on the road travelling to a destination, they are just protesting. Let's just get on with it. I have found i get no abuse by clearly signalling my intentions, claiming the lane, allowing faster vehicles to pass when it's safe and travelling roads where I have a chance of keeping up with traffic.
Are CM trying to legitimise something that already exists?
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby longshanks » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:45 am

I see a small amount of irony (not sure if the right term) from Fridays CM ride. I did not participate and someone mentioned only 40 odd attended no doubt due to the weather. However, anyone who works in the CBD of Sydney can not help but notice how chaotic and slow the traffic is on a Friday evening at peak hour. The rain would only have made matters worse. The route taken by the CM riders is always at a crawl regardless. It would have been quicker to walk. I know that the CM ride is all about raising awareness etc and highlighting bikes as legitimate road users (which they are) but I do not think that the 40 riders would have made a single drivers journey home any slower judging by the grid lock i saw when leaving work that night.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby sogood » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:42 am

queequeg wrote:An interesting observation for Sydney is that as soon as school holidays start, the traffic volumes in peak hour drop by more than 50%. It is particularly noticeable going to and from the North-West where I live, to the point where a road that is normally bumper to bumper with traffic at a standstill, will overnight become completely empty like it was a public holiday.

It's not limited to your part of the world. It's everywhere. As far as I understand it, traffic speed does not hold a strictly linear relationship with traffic volume. There's a critical volume beyond which speed falls off rapidly. Traffic volume reduction associated with school holidays may just be in that critical range.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby CommuRider » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:06 am

longshanks wrote:I see a small amount of irony (not sure if the right term) from Fridays CM ride. I did not participate and someone mentioned only 40 odd attended no doubt due to the weather. However, anyone who works in the CBD of Sydney can not help but notice how chaotic and slow the traffic is on a Friday evening at peak hour. The rain would only have made matters worse. The route taken by the CM riders is always at a crawl regardless. It would have been quicker to walk. I know that the CM ride is all about raising awareness etc and highlighting bikes as legitimate road users (which they are) but I do not think that the 40 riders would have made a single drivers journey home any slower judging by the grid lock i saw when leaving work that night.


+1 Friday night car traffic is always a shocker. I drove that day and traffic going home taking one of the arterial roads to ANZAC Bridge was horrible. Never again (though I keep saying that). What's funny though is I detoured when I waited at the same spot for 10 minutes without the car in front of me making any movement at all. When I finally decided to go over the right lane turning right, stupid driver decided to move because he thought I was going to overtake him. Idiot. Anyway the alt routes were relatively free-flowing. I really should know Sydney traffic by now:
a) If it ain't moving after 5 minutes seek alternative
b) Avoid major roads because you don't want to be stuck on a bridge or a motorway with a crawling or no exit.
c) Know the back streets well
d) Follow other rat runners (apologies to residents of Glebe, Annandale etc etc) and enjoy the lovely terrace houses of the inner-city.
e) Ride on the bike.

So 40-odd cyclists making a difference to the traffic flow on a Friday arvo? Negligible imho. I daresay they probably were quicker than any of the SHB drivers that day.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Nate » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:23 pm

csy75 wrote:
Nate wrote:absolute peanuts...

the riders?
or the added traffic, as in a drop in the ocean?


yes - as a few have aluded to...
Its their intent to cause pain/anger/disruption i'm really against - IMHO its NOT by any stretch a way to reach motorists & get them think.
It just results in an increase in hatred towards people on bicycles.

Drive to work day for cyclists is a MUCH better idea, HUGE visibility, just as much inconvenience (if not more) = great visibility, but the big difference is as a driver you're "one of them" - so they cant hate themselves! ;)
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby zero » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:00 pm

If 40 riders crossed the SHB in single occupant cars, they'd take 4x as much space in the traffic queue. ie the only way to increase the number of PEOPLE flowing over the SHB is actually to use buses, trains and bikes. The single occupant cars are the cause of the congestion.

The reason its news unlike every other monthly CM, is that OFarrell has decided there is votes in being seen to be anti clover, there is votes in being seen to be anti-cycle, and that there is votes in pandering to the single occupant idiot and therefore he is commenting. He hasn't managed to comment on the CMs prior to this despite them being frequent, and despite him being serving polly at the time.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby David_G » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:50 pm

zero wrote:If 40 riders crossed the SHB in single occupant cars, they'd take 4x as much space in the traffic queue. ie the only way to increase the number of PEOPLE flowing over the SHB is actually to use buses, trains and bikes. The single occupant cars are the cause of the congestion.

The reason its news unlike every other monthly CM, is that OFarrell has decided there is votes in being seen to be anti clover, there is votes in being seen to be anti-cycle, and that there is votes in pandering to the single occupant idiot and therefore he is commenting. He hasn't managed to comment on the CMs prior to this despite them being frequent, and despite him being serving polly at the time.



Wotif, to stop the complaining from the usual suspects, those 40 cyclists drove their cars in convoy very slowly with their bikes on the top of the cars?
You could put some sort of sign up like "who do you prefer to share the road with?" 40 cars or 40 bikes?

Or hopefully more than 40 cars/bikes.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby sogood » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:56 pm

So what's wrong if everybody drove? Pretty good usage of every square inch of space. :wink:

Image

Or this. But I think there's more human factor in this one.

Image
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby jet-ski » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:32 pm

that is what happens when doofuses block intersections.... I see cars doing it all the time in Perth - they try to go across, and get stuck in the middle of the intersectio nwhen their light turns red, but noone coming from the other street can get past to take advantage of their green light :shock:
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby hewey » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:49 pm

I work in the field of sustainability education, and I don't beleive CM is a positive or effective event. There are two target audiences you want to hit with something like this.

One is the 'gunners', these are the people who want to ride to work but for whatever reason havent quite made that jump. To encourage them to jump on the bike there's a few things you can do. Encourage them and provide a catalyst for them to do it. Ride to work day is a great example, get a free brekky and coffee and some encouragement. Hopefully once they've done it the first time they'll realise how good it was and how fresh they were when they got to work and they'll want to do it again. Highlighting other people who took the jump and the benefits they get out of it. Take a couple of different angles, as different people are motivated by different things. So feature someone who saved a heap of cash, someone who got fit, someone who picked up that cute girl in his apartment who rides as well, someone who saves a bunch of time by riding to work. In other words, promote the activity you want to encourage in a positive light, and make it appealing. The other stuff is harder, but essential - make it easy. So install bikepaths, make workplaces bike friendly etc etc. The recent cycling skills and bike maintenance courses that have been offered are a good example of this.

The other target audience is the drivers who will never commute by bike. Its a waste of time trying to convince them to ride to work, they need a quantam shift in their attitudes and it aint gonna happen anytime soon. With this audience you want to promote the benefits of cycling to them. More bikes = less traffic = quicker commute. You also want to promote awareness of bikes on the road, and that the road is there to SHARE. Its still a hard sell, and anyone who says otherwise is delusional. BUT, it is much more effective approach than something like CM, where the sole aim is to create conflict and thus publicity.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby Scouse » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:38 pm

zero wrote:The reason its news unlike every other monthly CM, is that OFarrell has decided there is votes in being seen to be anti clover, there is votes in being seen to be anti-cycle, and that there is votes in pandering to the single occupant idiot and therefore he is commenting.
I believe the reason why this CM ride gets the attention is because the last one for the year is the only one that takes in the Harbour Bridge.
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Re: Critical mass nut-jobs at it again

Postby diggler » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:31 am

I don'y know why O'Farrell is copping so much heat in this thread. He's only been Premier for 10 minutes trying to fix up all those years of previous incompetence.

And no I am not a Liberal Party stooge, I have voted for both sides in the past depending on the election.

Yes I did vote for O'Farrell in the last election, but then again, so did the whole State.

As for Critical Mass, this is a completely pointless exercise. Yes they get attention, but it achieves nothing except alienate motorists.

even if you had a real legitimate gripe such as freedom for slaves, I'm not sure slowing up Friday afternoon city traffic is the best way to do it.
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