Homebush Bay Bridge

Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby CommuRider » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:36 am

So after a year it is official :-)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cars-banned-o ... 1vkb5.html

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:-) :-) :-)

Well, that's one big shortcut from SOP to Rhodes :-) :-)
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by BNA » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:49 am

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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby SmellyTofu » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:49 am

I can see a strava sector in the making. :D
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby AndrewBurns » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:48 am

One lane each way to be shared by busses and cyclists :shock: that doesn't sound too great, can you imagine riding along there in the single lane with no shoulder and an impatient bus behind you?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Ozkaban » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:52 am

SmellyTofu wrote:I can see a strava sector in the making. :D

+1 :mrgreen:

AndrewBurns wrote:One lane each way to be shared by busses and cyclists :shock: that doesn't sound too great, can you imagine riding along there in the single lane with no shoulder and an impatient bus behind you?

-1 :(
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby CommuRider » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:58 am

AndrewBurns wrote:One lane each way to be shared by busses and cyclists :shock: that doesn't sound too great, can you imagine riding along there in the single lane with no shoulder and an impatient bus behind you?


Pffffffffft spin faster...buses are heavy and clunky, surely you can beat them :-) Anyway, bus drivers will get distracted by views of the bay and the river especially when the GPS schools are out rowing :-)

Wonder if they can close it say Sunday morning and we can have market stalls along the bridge?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby familyguy » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:14 pm

We all know what happened last time there was one lane, a bike, and a bus*.

Jim

OK, so the bike wasn't meant to be there, but why let facts cloud a rant?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby SmellyTofu » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:24 pm

It's not like buses run through there all THAT often.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby CommuRider » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: proposed bridge race at 300m long. Hmmmmmm..... :mrgreen:

Proposed bridge records for:
1. SS
2. Tricycle
3. Folder
4. Bog-standard BSO
5. Recumbent
6. Wheelchair
7. Tandem
8. Road bikes et al (because you can make your own categories)

and of course, the first cyclist to cross and ride the bridge shall live in infamy!
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby goneriding » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:36 pm

AndrewBurns wrote:One lane each way to be shared by busses and cyclists :shock: that doesn't sound too great, can you imagine riding along there in the single lane with no shoulder and an impatient bus behind you?


Ride faster ;)

That said, I've seen the development plan for the area and the residental/commercial plan extends all the way down to the ferry at the end of Hill Rd. That will put significantly more traffic in and out of that area which will be the bigger problem. Consider that Bennelong Parkway already gets jammed up very quickly and by significantly increasing the number of cars and Public Transport through the area doesn't bode well! I'm sure due attention to this has been given by all the planning people!?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby wombatK » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:46 pm

You can find the EIS here: Homebush Bay Bridge.

Towards the end (page 40-41), the options for the carriageway are discussed and diagrams presented. Unfortunately, on a quick scan) they carry no dimensions on the diagrams, and don't indicate whether there is any shoulder along the preferred option.

If it were similar to the Holker Busway it might be workable.

But the Holker Busway highlights another a likely pitfall - frequent enforcement there is not enough to deter many hoons from taking the shortcut through it (funny how it's usually WRX's, and cars with spoilers+lowered suspension etc.,. mainly).

The incentive to flout the bus-only rules will be even greater for this bridge - particulary as the volume of development proposed for Wentworth Point will result in huge traffic jams on the existing exit points (Hill Rd and Bennelong Rd, mainly).

A safe cycleway here could do a lot to shorten commute times for cyclists travelling from through the SOP area, and would be very welcome. But I'm not sure that many of the SOP using cyclists would be comfortable with mixing it with buses.

If you have any concerns about the proposal, and want to see the best results for cyclists, make a submission to the EIS. I will be.

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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby sogood » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:48 pm

AndrewBurns wrote:One lane each way to be shared by busses and cyclists :shock: that doesn't sound too great, can you imagine riding along there in the single lane with no shoulder and an impatient bus behind you?

You can either,
1) Ride in front of the bus and achieve a personal best.
or
2) Ride behind the bus and have the best draft on a windy day.

I'd say the design engineers really have given careful thoughts to us cyclists in this design! :mrgreen:
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby wombatK » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:35 pm

There's a bit more detail on the bridge arrangements in Part B of the EIS (p 53) which suggests
the lane width of about 11.4 m - 2.95m = 8.4 m / 2 = 4.2 m for the two bus lanes.
But that doesn't include deducting the width of the barriers shown between pathway and roadway, nor the edges of the bridge (which are included in the total 11.4 m width).

Sydney Buses standards ask for a min lane width of 3.2 m. At most that will leave a 1m shoulder - and
perhaps less than 0.5 m. So it could be much more a squeeze than the Holker Busway.

Estimated cost of the project is $43m - possibly funded by several developers. Think there's a long
way to go before it "gets up".
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby black4tress » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:11 am

wombatK wrote:The incentive to flout the bus-only rules will be even greater for this bridge - particulary as the volume of development proposed for Wentworth Point will result in huge traffic jams on the existing exit points (Hill Rd and Bennelong Rd, mainly).


This is a good point that you've brought up. I believe it will be a problem as very often SOP is gridlocked with cars - from functions, road works or closures. I would imagine cameras being used to fine offending motorists would be a good deterant, and massive sign advising them of this would probably work.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby wombatK » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:25 am

black4tress wrote:I would imagine cameras being used to fine offending motorists would be a good deterant, and massive sign advising them of this would probably work.


Great suggestion. Should be a condition for approval


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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby sogood » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:56 pm

wombatK wrote:Estimated cost of the project is $43m - possibly funded by several developers. Think there's a long
way to go before it "gets up".

What are they building for $43M? Gold plated railing? Wow!
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby find_bruce » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:03 pm

sogood wrote:What are they building for $43M? Gold plated railing? Wow!

Probably related to the levels of serious polution in the sediments on the habour floor - mostly dioxins from the former Union Carbide factory see the RMS website
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby sogood » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:31 pm

find_bruce wrote:Probably related to the levels of serious polution in the sediments on the habour floor - mostly dioxins from the former Union Carbide factory see the RMS website

Isn't that wonderful? Make the crossing in one single breath and don't drop in the water. It's the Bridge of Khazad-dûm of the Inner West. :roll:
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby goneriding » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:09 pm

That's what cracks me up about the Rhodes area. Reports from the 70's, 80's and 90's apparently advise that the land should never be used due to the toxicity. Funny how it changed!
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Sydguy » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:14 pm

I think it will be good for the area. Initially I thought it was to be a boom bridge, that is floating on the toxic swamp taht exists there with its unique population of endangered frogs.

If it is floating then traffic will be restricted speed wise and cyclists will be banked up behind any bus. At this stage there is no bus route going that way and it could be years before one does.

The funds have been committed, so I expect work would start within 18 months or so. The developer will want it up asap to get more for the units they are releasing for sale.

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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Sydguy » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:16 pm

You can't comemrically grow food there, or run livestock but to build on it is not an issue.

From Rhodes station down towards Meadowbank it is much worse.

They expect that residents down that side are 1/10,000 chance of cancer, where on my side it is 1/100,000.

Now I don't know and it was not clear in the material I read if that is increased risk or general risk considering I have seen ads on TV claiming 1 on 3 people will get a cancer...

It is confusing. But most of the units are sold O/S where you don't have to provide information on this trivial kind of stuff.

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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby sogood » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:24 pm

Sydguy wrote:You can't comemrically grow food there, or run livestock but to build on it is not an issue.

While that is correct by calculation and scientific methods, it's still a red flag for a buyer. Well, if one has a choice.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Ozkaban » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:48 pm

sogood wrote:
Sydguy wrote:You can't comemrically grow food there, or run livestock but to build on it is not an issue.

While that is correct by calculation and scientific methods, it's still a red flag for a buyer. Well, if one has a choice.

One wonders about how the builder will go long term... they're digging in the muck. I'm sure there are lots of safe guards in place, but who knows what will happen in 30 years?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby wombatK » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:23 pm

Sydguy wrote:You can't comemrically grow food there, or run livestock but to build on it is not an issue.

From Rhodes station down towards Meadowbank it is much worse.

They expect that residents down that side are 1/10,000 chance of cancer, where on my side it is 1/100,000.

Now I don't know and it was not clear in the material I read if that is increased risk or general risk considering I have seen ads on TV claiming 1 on 3 people will get a cancer...

It is confusing. But most of the units are sold O/S where you don't have to provide information on this trivial kind of stuff.

JM

Back in the 70's, we looked at buying a home in the Concord/Rhodes area. In the 90's, the cancer council published maps which
showed the incidence rates of cancers in local government areas. There was quite a hot spot around Concord/Rhodes. and I
felt a lot better about not living there.

When there was digging for foundations on the buildings along Concord Rd east of the railway, toxic leachates were found that were traced to the chemical works more than 500 m away to the west - and further test drillings showed they'd got all the way through to the bay east of Concord Rd. It will be a long long time before it's safe to eat fish that are feeding in these bays.

The developers who've built the new apartment blocks on the old chemical works sites processed a lot of soil (and sludge from the bay) through incinerators to apparently rehabilitate the soil and get rid of the dioxins. Not sure what auditing was put in place to prove that nobody cut any corners in the interest of making a faster buck. If the smokestacks and smells from the incinerator were any guide, it look like combustion conditions varied a lot and more was going up the stack than should be expected from a complete high temperature combustion process.

If anything untoward occurs in residents or their children in the next decades, it's hard to imagine that the developers will bear any more responsibility than James Hardie has in relation to asbestos diseases. it will be the government (local or state) that peeps go after.

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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby CommuRider » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:30 pm

Sobering thought. Am sure Mirvac / Meriton don't care about the future cancer rates of their potential buyers/residents. The area is also quite dusty so hope they put up some more trees to absorb the mess. Hope it is a solid and not freely moving bridge so mangrove plants can actually establish themselves. Maybe a couple of benches too would be nice. Am sure a lot of peeps will take a sunset/rise walk on this bridge.

Maybe a Meriton Cancer Unit at Concord Hospital?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby SmellyTofu » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:49 am

As a resident that lives within 1.5km radius from the site, there are times I'd wonder about the safety of the smell as you drive down Concord Rd. Almost for certain the smell from that incinerator would travel eastwards. Only twice in the 6 years I've lived in the area, the smell would travel to my place. Newsletters handed out by the folks that rehab'ed the soil say it's safe etc but I'm sure that smell isn't safe in some way.

I reckon as a property to buy, I think it'd be safe to buy. The amount of concrete that covers the soil would leave very little old soil floating anywhere. Then again, there are cases I've heard like ones in Balmain where asbestos has been dumped and subsequently development went and built on top of it with only a thin layer of soil covering the asbestos.
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