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SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?)

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:58 pm
by Sydguy
Hi team

IMHO this is utter drivel.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... 2cmbt.html

Do we know if she is talking about the Cook River Path???

JM

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:34 pm
by Nobody
Unless she posts in the comments we'll probably never know.

It is one of my regular rides, so I'm probably one of these "lone wolfs" or whatever she calls them. Passing with centimeters of space is probably true as in some sections it would be hard to get more than a metre clearance due to the narrowness of the path itself. In the other thread I posted:
Nobody wrote:You get a strange attitude from peds that they own the path and just tolerate your presence at best. Similar attitude that you get from cars on the road. If it's so difficult and/or dangerous to share, there are many thousands on kilometres of footpaths in NSW for peds to use theoretically free of cyclists. Too bad I can't say the reciprocal for cyclists. :roll:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60367

Edit: Apparently it is the North Shore of Sydney.
http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topi ... f-in-lycra

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:41 pm
by Warnesy
Don't ride on roads, don't ride on shared paths, I bet if some pilot wrote an article how cyclists like E.T kept getting in their way it would get a run :roll:

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:38 pm
by grantw
I think the subbing needs review, Perhaps "Caro threatens to stab cyclists with umbrella after obstructing path on blind corner and having a cyclist tell her it was a silly thing to do. Shock!"

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:18 pm
by queequeg
Sydguy wrote:Hi team

IMHO this is utter drivel.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... 2cmbt.html

Do we know if she is talking about the Cook River Path???

JM


No, it is the Gore Hill Path and SUP running through Flatrock Reserve in Willoughby.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:24 am
by gorilla monsoon
It is drivel and Caro has become some sort of personality because she got to do guest spots on Gruen Transfer/Planet and Sunrise. Woo Hoo!

She does raise one valid point though: the seeming inability of riders sharing paths to ring a bell or call-out to peds to warn they are passing. I mean, how hard can it be?

Personally, I believe that such a simple act is well worth the HUGE effort, if for no other reason than it is a good publicity exercise.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:32 am
by DavidI
gorilla monsoon wrote:She does raise one valid point though: the seeming inability of riders sharing paths to ring a bell or call-out to peds to warn they are passing. I mean, how hard can it be?

Personally, I believe that such a simple act is well worth the HUGE effort, if for no other reason than it is a good publicity exercise.

+1
It's not hard to give a quick ring, and it the pedestrian moves out of the way (as they do 90% of the time) I usually give them a wave after I pass - it might be the difference between them moving out of the way the next time and them cranking up the "arrogant cyclists" bandwagon. That pedestrian might also drive a car.........

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:56 pm
by biker jk
gorilla monsoon wrote:It is drivel and Caro has become some sort of personality because she got to do guest spots on Gruen Transfer/Planet and Sunrise. Woo Hoo!

She does raise one valid point though: the seeming inability of riders sharing paths to ring a bell or call-out to peds to warn they are passing. I mean, how hard can it be?

Personally, I believe that such a simple act is well worth the HUGE effort, if for no other reason than it is a good publicity exercise.


Unfortunately sounding an audible warning doesn't work when the pedestrian is wired for sound (which is all too common these days).

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:45 pm
by g-boaf
DavidI wrote:
gorilla monsoon wrote:She does raise one valid point though: the seeming inability of riders sharing paths to ring a bell or call-out to peds to warn they are passing. I mean, how hard can it be?

Personally, I believe that such a simple act is well worth the HUGE effort, if for no other reason than it is a good publicity exercise.

+1
It's not hard to give a quick ring, and it the pedestrian moves out of the way (as they do 90% of the time) I usually give them a wave after I pass - it might be the difference between them moving out of the way the next time and them cranking up the "arrogant cyclists" bandwagon. That pedestrian might also drive a car.........


Put some headphones on at typical pedestrian volume (so people in NZ can hear it), and I'll stand say 15 metres back and ring it. I bet you won't hear it. Even the ones without headphones often refuse to move over in my area. They also like to wave their arms about on each side.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:11 pm
by gorilla monsoon
True, those wired for sound will not even hear a bomb going off but not everyone is wired for sound. And if there is a group of gas-baggers just ring the bell two or three times or call out.

The number of times I have been thanked by peds over the last few years for giving them a warning is fairly large and every now and then someone will tell you how they were carved-up by a group of "bars-turds who didn't even have the manners to let me know they were there".

It's a PR exercise and it requires almost no effort.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:30 pm
by simonn
I rode past her and her husband this morning. I was sooooo tempted to shout "OUTRAGEOUS!!!!" as I rode past, but I am an adult now and apparently gave up childish ways when I got married :lol: .

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:52 pm
by g-boaf
gorilla monsoon wrote:True, those wired for sound will not even hear a bomb going off but not everyone is wired for sound. And if there is a group of gas-baggers just ring the bell two or three times or call out.

The number of times I have been thanked by peds over the last few years for giving them a warning is fairly large and every now and then someone will tell you how they were carved-up by a group of "bars-turds who didn't even have the manners to let me know they were there".

It's a PR exercise and it requires almost no effort.


The PR exercise does little good - no matter how many times I've tried it. Someone else can keep on with it, cause I'm not. My week of intense pain and battling an infection courtesy of a dumb pedestrian has killed my interest in riding bikes. The peds and road users win, I want no part of it anymore. :roll:

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:39 pm
by gorilla monsoon
Oh, stop feeling sorry for yourself. If everything is intact and still working then you have come out ahead. And when you do stop feeling sorry for yourself go out for a ride.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:23 pm
by find_bruce
simonn wrote:I rode past her and her husband this morning. I was sooooo tempted to shout "OUTRAGEOUS!!!!" as I rode past, but I am an adult now and apparently gave up childish ways when I got married :lol: .

Pity, that would have been funny. But did you ring your bell ? :)

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:16 pm
by wombatK
simonn wrote:I rode past her and her husband this morning. I was sooooo tempted to shout "OUTRAGEOUS!!!!" as I rode past, but I am an adult now and apparently gave up childish ways when I got married :lol: .

A younger me might be tempted to give her a blast of an Air Zound from about 10 m away, synchronising
with the departing hubby's peck. But us more genteel folk of the western 'burbs now prefer handguns for
settling our differences. She better lookout :)

Of course it didn't happen on the Cooks River Cycleway - it has much worse things to worry about than a close
shave by a lycra lout.

Cheers

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:27 am
by ftssjk
simonn wrote:I rode past her and her husband this morning. I was sooooo tempted to shout "OUTRAGEOUS!!!!" as I rode past, but I am an adult now and apparently gave up childish ways when I got married :lol: .


what time and where?

i'll do it for you :D

edit:
on that ringing a bell thing,
i usually ring the bell when they are in my lane,
but should i ring the bell if they're within their lane and i can pass safely?

i usually don't because it feels a bit odd.. kind of as if I were to be announcing my presence..

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:25 am
by simonn
wombatK wrote:But us more genteel folk of the western 'burbs now prefer handguns for settling our differences.


Well if we are going to get suburbanly-sub-cultural, being the north shore, I guess I'd have to send my kids to a better school than the one she sent her's to to settle our differences. Damn it.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:29 am
by simonn
ftssjk wrote:
simonn wrote:I rode past her and her husband this morning. I was sooooo tempted to shout "OUTRAGEOUS!!!!" as I rode past, but I am an adult now and apparently gave up childish ways when I got married :lol: .


what time and where?



On the Naremburn to Artarmon cycleway the second, smaller, bend under the freeway from Naremburn around 07:40-45 ish (IIRC).

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:54 pm
by wombatK
simonn wrote:
On the Naremburn to Artarmon cycleway the second, smaller, bend under the freeway from Naremburn around 07:40-45 ish (IIRC).

Sick 'em lads :wink:

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:24 pm
by Xplora
You can't ding the bell, it just doesn't work as a sign of polity. A third of them ignore it or can't hear it, a third get startled and get in your way (because they adopt a wide defensive position as they brace for impact and turn to look at you) and the remaining third think its an act of aggression.

The self righteous fools feel its an obligation to ding but you just can't guarantee that it will improve the situation at all. My riding style is such that a bell is certainly going to make things worse half the time. I will ding mainly to warn parents and pet owners... these people need time to control their animals, and it IS fair to assume that is their primary concern. I simply make it easier for them to meet that concern. :wink:

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:53 pm
by diggler
What exactly are you guys doing on these bike paths? I slow down whenever I see a pedestrian. The Cooks River bike path is sign posted to have pedestrian priority. I can't speak for the Gore Hill path. I don't think it is reasonable to travel at maximum speed with merely a warning bell to fulfil all your obligations.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:32 pm
by Xplora
diggler wrote:What exactly are you guys doing on these bike paths? I slow down whenever I see a pedestrian. The Cooks River bike path is sign posted to have pedestrian priority. I can't speak for the Gore Hill path. I don't think it is reasonable to travel at maximum speed with merely a warning bell to fulfil all your obligations.


In fairness to those having difficulty, there is no standard width for a path. There are no posts on blind corners, nor speed limits to give you an idea of the expected angle and speed. You can't assume your experience on a shared path will match someone else's, because there is no consistent path experience - unlike a road.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:43 am
by simonn
diggler wrote:What exactly are you guys doing on these bike paths? I slow down whenever I see a pedestrian. The Cooks River bike path is sign posted to have pedestrian priority. I can't speak for the Gore Hill path. I don't think it is reasonable to travel at maximum speed with merely a warning bell to fulfil all your obligations.


I agree with you, however, some peds are going to be pissed off at whatever speed you travel. The Gore Hill path is mostly two cycle lanes + one pedestrian lane. There are some very badly designed parts where is changes to shared path on {in,de}clines.

The idea that you should ring your bell for peds is ridiculous. At peak hours on this path it would sound like a rendition of jingle bells. And, depending on how you define "slow" it could be a long ride for you.

The simple thing is for everyone to stay in their lanes and if they want to stop, move off the path. Easy, and at the very least just polite.

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:54 pm
by gorilla monsoon
Just goes to show that Sydney folk are different and way more aggressive than their country cousins. :D

Re: SMH - Jane Caro - Opinion Piece (Cooks River Cycle Path?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:49 pm
by outnabike
Xplora wrote:You can't ding the bell, it just doesn't work as a sign of polity.

The self righteous fools feel its an obligation to ding but you just can't guarantee that it will improve the situation at all. My riding style is such that a bell is certainly going to make things worse half the time.

Snipped


Hi Xplora, that's a pretty rough judgement,
By using the term "The self righteous fools" It must be presumed you are talking to the less educated folks, other than your self on the forum? Or just others that are trying to do the right thing?
The councils are trying to do what they can in their limited way in my area to get both pedestrians and riders to understand the safety issue here. Personally I can't see every pedestrian loving to hear a bell behind them, but I appreciate it when another cyclist coming from behind gives me a bell as he comes up to overtake.

The pics show the signs on the paths near my home and surrounds, I reckon they apply to pedestrians and cyclists to take note of.
Obeying them does not make a " self righteous fool" out of anyone.

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