Bellbird Hill

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby rogan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:06 am

Webby84 wrote:Should also consider the M7 smashfest with Kangazilla on Wed nights. Would be right up your alley with your TT prowess. 50km loop out to the M7 bubbler and back.

Meet at the shop at 7pm (Toonie), or otherwise at the entrance to the M7 at about 7.15pm. Its a killer with Mal leading out the pace


The north-east entrance at 7.15, at the T-way? Are all comers welcome?
Image
rogan
 
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: Sydney

by BNA » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:28 am

BNA
 

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby vosadrian » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:28 am

rogan wrote:Yup 39x25 with occasional standing. If you can do it (long femurs supposedly help, don't do it if you get sore knees) it works really well. Limits the pain to the quads, which should be strong anyway!


My knees are not so good, I have been trying to spin more lately to take the load off them. So it looks like I have to train myself to stand longer... or get a compact. It was the first time I had done a climb like that in many months, so I think with more practise, the standing option would probably be best. Most of the climbing I do is around 5% with only shorter steep pinches that I stand for a minute or so. The thing that gets me on these climbs is the need to stand for many minutes at a time. I probably just need to harden up!! I am the one who was on a 28!! :oops:
Image
vosadrian
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:01 pm

It's easy enough to get around, adrian... just stand up on the flats for a few minutes and build it up. Standing is much less efficient, but training isn't about being efficient - it's about getting faster. :)
Xplora
 
Posts: 6310
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby rogan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:13 pm

vosadrian wrote:
rogan wrote:Yup 39x25 with occasional standing. If you can do it (long femurs supposedly help, don't do it if you get sore knees) it works really well. Limits the pain to the quads, which should be strong anyway!


My knees are not so good, I have been trying to spin more lately to take the load off them. So it looks like I have to train myself to stand longer... or get a compact. It was the first time I had done a climb like that in many months, so I think with more practise, the standing option would probably be best. Most of the climbing I do is around 5% with only shorter steep pinches that I stand for a minute or so. The thing that gets me on these climbs is the need to stand for many minutes at a time. I probably just need to harden up!! I am the one who was on a 28!! :oops:


Don't bust your knees. Use a compact for steep long hills, where getting out of the saddle for the whole climb is not realistic for you.
Image
rogan
 
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby michaelten » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:23 pm

eon wrote:
rogan wrote:Might be OK for this Saturday. But to ride 1xWark and 3xBowen (why?) you don't need 5.5 hours. My suggestion would be 1xWark and 1xBowen and start at 5.30 at Norwest - and you'd still easily be back before 10.


Might can sat Josh. You want to come out Penrith way and have a crack at this ?
25/08/2013 - Club Championship 100km (A&B grade riders plus C grade at commissaire discretion) Separate race for C,D & E Grades ( signon from 7:30am race start time 8:00am )
check out Penrith website for details
http://www.penrithcyclingclub.com/


Can any club enter this or Penrith only?

I was going to go down to Lansdowne but will do this if I can
michaelten
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby eon » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:15 pm

Webby84 wrote:Croozin - I stayed seated for the most part grinding away with my 25. I stood up for the really steep parts. Would've loved a 28 for the pinches! Mark stayed mainly seated as well. He acted like a carrot on a stick sitting a good 300m ahead of me the whole way up.


rogan wrote:Yup 39x25 with occasional standing. If you can do it (long femurs supposedly help, don't do it if you get sore knees) it works really well. Limits the pain to the quads, which should be strong anyway!


I dont know how you guys stay seated ( even on a 25 ).. when I rode up it with you Josh, I was on 28 (and when i was sucking wheel, i was standing most of the way while i watched you stay seated).

I prefer a 27 due to closer gearing gap of lowest 2 gears. That's what i used when with Adrian/Robbie/Mark/Brendan.. basically from the bottom/creek - i'm 90% standing. Heck, i stand going up Eliz drive ??? :shock:

do you guys seat forward or back when staying seated. push down ? pull up ? or both ? I tend to burn quicker uphill if i stay seated. :?:

rogan wrote:long femurs supposedly help


Well in comparison i guess i have the shortes femur. :(


michaelten wrote:Can any club enter this or Penrith only?
I was going to go down to Lansdowne but will do this if I can


Not 100% sure.. I thought it was open, but might be worth shooting off an email to penrith.
Image
User avatar
eon
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:55 pm
Location: Baulkham Hills

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Webby84 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:37 pm

rogan wrote:
Webby84 wrote:Should also consider the M7 smashfest with Kangazilla on Wed nights. Would be right up your alley with your TT prowess. 50km loop out to the M7 bubbler and back.

Meet at the shop at 7pm (Toonie), or otherwise at the entrance to the M7 at about 7.15pm. Its a killer with Mal leading out the pace


The north-east entrance at 7.15, at the T-way? Are all comers welcome?


All welcome. Yup - at the very beginning of the bike path (ie Tway entrance). We'd probably pass through there closer to 7.20pm, but 7.15pm to be safe. No chance of bridging the gap with Mal on the front
Webby84
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Webby84 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:47 pm

Xplora wrote:I'm definitely out this Sunday - right knee is absolutely killing me. Wondering when I need to see the doctor about it :(


Boo. Knee injuries are the devil. Maybe try these guys - http://www.thebodymechanic.com.au/index.html

Book with Blair Martin - http://www.thebodymechanic.com.au/results.html

I was having ITB issues when i first started riding so I bit the bullet and got a proper bike fit. Not cheap, but I haven't had any issues since. He's a bit of a guru. Writes for a lot of the magazines, plus was a super competitive road racer/runner in his day - ie NSW State Champ, etc. Having a physio with bike specific knowledge has to be a huge plus. You'll be shocked what a few mm here and there can make. My seat height was fine, it was the cleat position and float that were causing the issues.
Webby84
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby vosadrian » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:23 pm

I had a bike fit recently and my knees are on the improve... but still not 100%. I do some stretching, but need to work more on that. Apparently I have instability in my knee cap caused by a shallow groove in my femur?!? Not quite the same as the ITB stuff most people have I think, but I think ITB type tightness could make it worse.

I think I may go compact on my next bike in a couple years time, but in the meantime I will just train myself to stand more, and hopefully any strength I can develop may help me to be better at lower cadence sitting at higher power outputs.

I was a bit like Ehly on the climb. I was standing about 80% once it kicked up towards 10+% (3/4 of that climb??). Every time I sat down to rest I would gradually grind to halt over 30-60 seconds and have to stand again.... or zigzag.
Image
vosadrian
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby eon » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:13 pm

vosadrian wrote:lower cadence sitting at higher power outputs.

I think this is the key in my case. anything below 85rpm i start to struggle. :cry:
Image
User avatar
eon
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:55 pm
Location: Baulkham Hills

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:32 pm

I've had the you beaut fit - I think the problems probably are the result of the accident I had last year, and they only seem to be an issue when I put huge loads through the knees (repeated sprinting, paceline at 50+kmh etc). The telltale sign is the feelings in the joint are the same as the 6 weeks after the prang. probably done some permanent damage, hopefully it's not a reconstruction event!!!
Xplora
 
Posts: 6310
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby vosadrian » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:03 pm

eon wrote:
vosadrian wrote:lower cadence sitting at higher power outputs.

I think this is the key in my case. anything below 85rpm i start to struggle. :cry:


On a climb if I have the gearing, I tend to sit at 75-80. TT on the flats/downhill I will be 90-100 when going for it or 80-90 when cruising. I think I start to fall over below 65-70. Then I tend to stand more, but I have to fight the urge to stand and lift the cadence, and then max myself so I am completely stuffed. First time up Bowen, I had to force myself to count in my head and pedal with my counting to keep my cadence/speed down, as otherwise I tended to cook myself over 180 HR and then back off to recover. I think I could do these climbs quicker if I could sit at about 70 cadence at about 10kph sitting down. Currently 39-28 puts me at about 55 at 10kph. I think a compact 34 (with 28) would get me up to about 65.

I think part of the reason climbers like Josh/Robbie/Mark can sit down is because they just go quicker than me, so the cadence is higher!!. :wink:

Wish I had a climb like that closer to home so I could do it more regularly. I should start doing some repeats in WPH.
Image
vosadrian
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:42 pm

You have that 15% beast right near you lol coonara I think? Or just ride up highs road lol you are ideally placed for training. My best hill real close is about half as steep as it needs to be.
Xplora
 
Posts: 6310
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby vosadrian » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:07 pm

Xplora wrote:You have that 15% beast right near you lol coonara I think? Or just ride up highs road lol you are ideally placed for training. My best hill real close is about half as steep as it needs to be.


I should do repeats on them, but still not sure that it is the same to climb a km and then roll down and get a rest and then do it again. Different to standing up for most of the time for 6kms with no break for 30+ minutes. Still I am better placed than most for climbing training, so I should make better use of it, and I am sure it would improve my climbing on the big ones. Probably the best in my area is Glenridge/staley:

http://app.strava.com/segments/2481599

10% climb for 700m (70m vertical), and very low traffic. That is probably the closest in steepness for reasonable length to bellbird/bowen. Coonara hits around 15%, but only for 150-200m at the end.
Image
vosadrian
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:00 pm

The only time you have to do long times without slowing is aerobic work because you can't teach your body to access its fat stores without attacking the system relentlessly. HIIT is all about getting your body to grow the muscles and neurons to perform at the MAX by doing short times at maximum effort, but keeping it repeatable over the course of your training. You can ride a 20% pinch for 30 seconds without trouble, can't you? That's because you've taught your body to launch at it hard, keep the momentum up, and then hold on for 10 seconds as you fade to get over the top. That's essentially improvised HIIT, if you rode around the block and did it again. You'll get better at learning to protect yourself on the climbs as you do more and more repeats, but you aren't causing severe trauma to the body like you would riding up Bowen. You need to create a training effect, and HIIT will allow you to recover better than simply doing the goal climb until your knees give out. Longer intervals, higher gears, sitting and standing, all help to build the acute training levels.

Case in point - I absolutely killed it on Tuesday, but my knee is so bad I'm going to see the doctor tomorrow. Perhaps if I was more disciplined about my sprint training (only a couple sprints and keep the ride fairly slow apart from that) then I wouldn't be sitting outside my body's ability to cope.
Xplora
 
Posts: 6310
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Trek_Arty » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:15 pm

Xplora wrote:I've had the you beaut fit - I think the problems probably are the result of the accident I had last year, and they only seem to be an issue when I put huge loads through the knees (repeated sprinting, paceline at 50+kmh etc). The telltale sign is the feelings in the joint are the same as the 6 weeks after the prang. probably done some permanent damage, hopefully it's not a reconstruction event!!!


Sure it's not the fit causing your issues mate?... heard plenty of stories of poor float, cleat adjustment causing knee & itb pain...
User avatar
Trek_Arty
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby michaelten » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:08 pm

eon wrote:
michaelten wrote:Can any club enter this or Penrith only?
I was going to go down to Lansdowne but will do this if I can


Not 100% sure.. I thought it was open, but might be worth shooting off an email to penrith.


I called today, the 100km race is for club members only. They are going to run a scratch race for the non members.

Fingers crossed I get my wheel back from the bike shop from last weekends carnage!
michaelten
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:53 pm

Trek_Arty wrote:
Xplora wrote:I've had the you beaut fit - I think the problems probably are the result of the accident I had last year, and they only seem to be an issue when I put huge loads through the knees (repeated sprinting, paceline at 50+kmh etc). The telltale sign is the feelings in the joint are the same as the 6 weeks after the prang. probably done some permanent damage, hopefully it's not a reconstruction event!!!


Sure it's not the fit causing your issues mate?... heard plenty of stories of poor float, cleat adjustment causing knee & itb pain...

Very hard to say but it crossed my mind... :cry:
Xplora
 
Posts: 6310
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Webby84 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:36 am

We WARK'ing tomorrow boys? I've got a good friends Bday tonight so will be plenty sleep deprived, but still frothing for it
Webby84
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby rogan » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:08 pm

I can't commit at this stage, might be coming down with something.
Image
rogan
 
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby Xplora » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:10 pm

Dr X prescribes 100mg of HTFU brand cement solution. Reminds me, I've got to start waking up early to take my medicine as well :P
Xplora
 
Posts: 6310
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby rogan » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:55 pm

Apparently, we are on again this Sunday at stupid o'clock (~5.15 at Norwest and Windsor Rd). This time with the Bowen option, ie. turn right off Bells Line of Road at Grose Vale Rd in Kurrajong (nb. NOT North Richmond - this means the strava seggie all the way downhill back to Nth Richmond is out).

Who's in?
Image
rogan
 
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby eon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:15 pm

rogan wrote:Who's in?


present.. :D

0515 - wohooooo !!!! see you there.
Image
User avatar
eon
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:55 pm
Location: Baulkham Hills

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby vosadrian » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Enjoy.... wish I could come. Why is it so appealing to torture yourself with that hill?!?
Image
vosadrian
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Bellbird Hill

Postby rogan » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:29 pm

Got another mate lined up - meeting him 5.35 am cnr of Garfield and Windsor Rd at Riverstone.
Image
rogan
 
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: Sydney

PreviousNext

Return to New South Wales

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: tez001



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit