Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby SentryBox » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:11 pm

Ever notice these stories ALWAYS run down the credibility of the cycling community by including quips about cyclists not wearing helmets & running red lights? Kind of softens the target up for a popularist public kicking.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby biker jk » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:25 pm

SentryBox wrote:Ever notice these stories ALWAYS run down the credibility of the cycling community by including quips about cyclists not wearing helmets & running red lights? Kind of softens the target up for a popularist public kicking.


I'm always dismayed that that the bicycling organisations such as BNSW say absolutely nothing when this claptrap is in the press, meanwhile the motoring organisations speak loudly, frequently and with a united voice. Every time this misleading rubbish is in the press, there should be a cycling representative doing a press conference to present the facts.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby g-boaf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:12 pm

biker jk wrote:
SentryBox wrote:Ever notice these stories ALWAYS run down the credibility of the cycling community by including quips about cyclists not wearing helmets & running red lights? Kind of softens the target up for a popularist public kicking.


I'm always dismayed that that the bicycling organisations such as BNSW say absolutely nothing when this claptrap is in the press, meanwhile the motoring organisations speak loudly, frequently and with a united voice. Every time this misleading rubbish is in the press, there should be a cycling representative doing a press conference to present the facts.


We should be banging their doors down and protesting loudly that they seem to be such a soft touch.

NRMA is very aggressive in advocacy by comparison.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby rangersac » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:12 pm

Clover has replied in today's Guardian
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby find_bruce » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:58 pm

SentryBox wrote:Reality is that Sydney motorists (I am one of those too) are generally a pretty frustrated mob, mainly b/c the road network is 30 years behind the current requirements and it is a horrible place to get around. As a result, they look for anything to vent their frustration on, and we cyclists are an easy target. You could get rid of every cyclist off every road in sydney and close all bike lanes and it will not make any difference.

Sorry to disagree, but getting rid of cyclists & bike lanes would make a significant difference - a whole bunch more cars on the roads = more congestion.

What the high powered intellects at the bird cage liner can't get their tiny brains around is that congestion is caused by too many cars & the best way to tackle it is to reduce the overall number of cars. How do you do that ? By encouraging people to use other more space efficient forms of transport, such as trains, busses, bikes and walking.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby SentryBox » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:05 pm

find_bruce wrote:
SentryBox wrote:Reality is that Sydney motorists (I am one of those too) are generally a pretty frustrated mob, mainly b/c the road network is 30 years behind the current requirements and it is a horrible place to get around. As a result, they look for anything to vent their frustration on, and we cyclists are an easy target. You could get rid of every cyclist off every road in sydney and close all bike lanes and it will not make any difference.

Sorry to disagree, but getting rid of cyclists & bike lanes would make a significant difference - a whole bunch more cars on the roads = more congestion.

What the high powered intellects at the bird cage liner can't get their tiny brains around is that congestion is caused by too many cars & the best way to tackle it is to reduce the overall number of cars. How do you do that ? By encouraging people to use other more space efficient forms of transport, such as trains, busses, bikes and walking.

No need to appologise for disagreeing - please feel free to get stuck into me, I do tend to speak a load of tripe at times. Idealistically you have a point, in reality I reckon if you take bikes off Sydney roads only a small percentage of the cyclists affected will turn to driving a car and majority will be back on the already overcrowded and inadequate public transport options. Take the bike lanes out and there may be a teeny tiny improvement in capacity for traffic flow but that will be offset by the small increase in car traffic caused by the said cyclists going about in cars. Net effect SFA, that's what I was tring to say.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby grimbo » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:39 am

BastardSheep wrote:Absolutely brilliant reporting there. The "reporter" starts off comparing apples and oranges (inner city cycling levels and greater Sydney cycling levels that actually extend beyond Sydney's borders into the Blue Mountains and other surrounding regional areas) as though they're both the same thing, trying to claim Clover was lieing. Then acknowledges they're different and that Clover's numbers were correct. Then whinges incessantly about bike lanes outside of the inner city , and hence outside of Clover's area of control all the while blaming Clover Moore - lanes that were badly designed to start with while Clover Moore specifically states in a quote that WELL designed lanes are required. This "reporter" just can't form an argument against her target, she keeps on proving her own arguments wrong.


It was actually a pretty disjointed article that didn't even seem to relate to it's own headlines. It made me wonder whether the reporters were outright incompetent, or whether they had been told to push an agenda without actually having anything new to say.

The conclusion that "less bicycles being ridden means more cycle lanes is a waste of money" would have actually lead me to the opposite conclusion, but I guess I'm coming from the belief that more people cycling is a good thing.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby gavinr » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:59 am

They've run anti cycling stories every day this week, it's clear this is their latest agenda.

Here's today's effort: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 723158156#
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby BastardSheep » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:11 am

Actually I'd say the agenda is Clover Moore, and one of the most visible things she's done is the bike paths in the CBD and inner suburbs. You'll notice they're trying to pin her for outer suburbs paths, and can barely go a paragraph without mentioning her in some way. Today's article, in the print version of the paper is just a sub-article in a much larger piece calling out Clover Moore on her PR/advertising budgets as can be seen here https://twitter.com/bastardsheep/status ... 32/photo/1 .

The Daily Telegraph / Newscorp have seen the power they can wield by swaying a federal election against labor by spouting utter tripe and ludicrous lies that nobody else has the media coverage to call them on, they're now wielding this power against Clover Moore in an attempt to get her out as well. They've had a bee in their bonnet about her for years. Cyclists are essentially collateral damage in this campaign against Clover Moore, and we're paying for it potentially with our lives.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby schroeds » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:55 am

I'd say that's a very perceptive reading of a very apalling strategy.

I call again for ALL cyclists to boycott the Tele.

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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby rebilda » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:59 pm

Mmmmm......Boycott the Telegraph?

Well after the disbelief of what I have read in that rag, the last couple of times I have picked it up, I am just simply not going to waste another $1.20 to have my intelligence insulted, again.

When the Rugby League dominates the front page, you know it isn't worth opening up anyway.....
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby g-boaf » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:40 pm

Unfortunately, there are some cyclists who not only read the telegraph, but vote for anti-cycling Conservative parties too under the talk of "give the other guys a go".

Cyclists boycotting Telegraph will do little though, as there are hardly any of us, and heaps of motorists and pedestrians who seem to stick together in the fight against their common enemy.

Telegraph does need its wings clipped very badly. A good dose of truthful, ethical reporting wouldn't go astray. But that's never going to happen under the editorial direction they have, and Grandpa Rupert doesn't care for it either.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby DavidS » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:00 am

I don't know how you lot put up with the Tele, the Hun is bad enough and it's a pale imitation. Might explain why I never buy any of Murdoch's rags.

Anyway I was looking through some of the links and I dearly love this tweet reproduced on Cycling Central:

I ride every day, no helmet, running red lights & with an asylum seeker on the back just to p*ss off you dropkick Tele readers #onyerbike


Priceless

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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby trailgumby » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:25 pm

Telegraph gets owned on MediaWatch :lol:

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transc ... 854796.htm

Apparently their coverage has been the subject of a ACMA complaint (or three)
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby rebilda » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:50 pm

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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby Thrilloilogy » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:08 pm

Was there also an article about the daily telegraph's double digit decline in circulation for the last quarter?
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby rebilda » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:43 am

I posted this up in another thread yesterday, though it probably suits better here;

Had a fantastic social ride this morning, with a group of riders off this forum, all riding Retro style bikes. It was a slowish ride over 60km (av only about 17kph).

We stuck mainly to cycle paths and cycle lanes, where practical, we all wore helmets and obeyed the road rules.

But, there HAD to be One! We had one (I want to say Moron in a Ute) motorist who screamed at us impatiently, as we crossed Parramatta Rd at a Traffic signalled, Pedestrian Crossing. His spray was all about Licences and Rego and how we should be paying for them. I saw RED!! we had a lady present and he was Nudging his ute forwards at us as he was trying to turn left out of a side street and across our line.
Ok, I just kind of lost it, and told him (in a language I knew he would understand) that I wasn't best pleased with his actions ( I only used Two words. Apologies If I offended anyone else present).
He was just completely out of line and over the top with his reaction to us crossing the road, but then I thought later, "Why would someone react this way?" It just lacked any rational reasoning. We were, after all, just crossing the road with the lights at a pedestrian crossing.

I blame the Media.

The Telegraph in Sydney has been waging war against Cyclists, Clover Moore, Blah blah blah..... for weeks. They are brain washing their readership into believing that if someone is on a bike, they are public enemy #1 and somehow taking advantage of the good Tax paying motorists out there.

I am now (ever so slightly) ashamed of how I reacted to this guy. He was misled by our news makers, that we are somehow disadvantaging him. It would be pointless to try and enter into a rational debate with a fired up motorist, as he speeds off with the window down, so telling him to just &#%! Off seemed like the right thing to do. What if he stopped the car and wanted to go toe to toe? Fine, I'll just give him a good Smack, too (don't think I wouldn't!). But what would this really achieve - A motorist who already has been misled by the Media and is on a bender about anyone on a bike, would just become a lifelong enemy of anyone on a bike. Effectively, all I did was lower myself to his level :oops:

If he would listen, I might ask him, Would his comment be different if I happened to be driving my Big Black 4WD Hilux? - Well of course it would, I pay for rego and a licence on that! - So, what is the difference?

My Bike is not a registrable Vehicle. I am also not required, by Law, to hold a licence to ride it on the road. So demanding I pay for these things is just ridiculous!

The Daily Telegraph is already facing numerous complaints in regard to their distortion of the truth surrounding their stories about Cyclists and Clover Moore's Vision for Cycle Paths into and around the City of Sydney. I am now ready to add another one. I want to complain to the Media Watchdog (or whatever they are called) because I am sick of this !!

People are out there screaming at each other about nothing and the Media is just throwing Petrol on the fire, instead of looking at the valid points.

My Suggestion, If you are screamed at because you don't pay Rego..... Just Laugh :D . Because they are just being ridiculous.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby wombatK » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:39 am

trailgumby wrote:Telegraph gets owned on MediaWatch :lol:

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transc ... 854796.htm

Apparently their coverage has been the subject of a ACMA complaint (or three)

Owned, and then some, with this
Media Watch wrote:But even if the Tele is cautioned again, we suspect it will copy those cyclists and keep on running the red lights.

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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:15 pm

biker jk wrote:
SentryBox wrote:Ever notice these stories ALWAYS run down the credibility of the cycling community by including quips about cyclists not wearing helmets & running red lights? Kind of softens the target up for a popularist public kicking.


I'm always dismayed that that the bicycling organisations such as BNSW say absolutely nothing when this claptrap is in the press, meanwhile the motoring organisations speak loudly, frequently and with a united voice. Every time this misleading rubbish is in the press, there should be a cycling representative doing a press conference to present the facts.

The problem is that everyone tells those who ARE vocal to shut up for fear of antagonising. You can't have it both ways.
Either the cycling community grows a spine and meets this crap head on, or you can all continue to keep it shut and watch the situation degenerate even further.
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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby DavidS » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:41 pm

Rebilda, you are correct about the way the media beats up stories. There are many problems with the media in this country but one is that they get complaints, the complaints are upheld by ACMA, they get a slap over the knuckles. The media could not care less about having a complaint against them being upheld. The media have a lot of power and there needs to be laws where citizens can make them more accountable for the campaigns they whip up and the damage done. I would like to be able to pull up various parts of the media for the factually incorrect crap they peddle about climate change, but there is no mechanism that actually has any impact. Similarly, the crap the Tele has been peddling about cycling in Sydney is clearly a beat up and will make the roads more dangerous for cyclists just going about their normal lawful business of getting from A to B or having a recreational ride. Unfortunately, the media's power comes with no responsibility.

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Re: Sydney's message to Clover - we're over your bike paths

Postby warthog1 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:36 am

DavidS wrote:Rebilda, you are correct about the way the media beats up stories. There are many problems with the media in this country but one is that they get complaints, the complaints are upheld by ACMA, they get a slap over the knuckles. The media could not care less about having a complaint against them being upheld. The media have a lot of power and there needs to be laws where citizens can make them more accountable for the campaigns they whip up and the damage done. I would like to be able to pull up various parts of the media for the factually incorrect crap they peddle about climate change, but there is no mechanism that actually has any impact. Similarly, the crap the Tele has been peddling about cycling in Sydney is clearly a beat up and will make the roads more dangerous for cyclists just going about their normal lawful business of getting from A to B or having a recreational ride. Unfortunately, the media's power comes with no responsibility.

DS


+1
Agree with all of that.
The concentration of media ownership in a few very wealthy hands, sabotages democracy in this country IMO.
Our elections are a farce. To a large extent we get the candidate/government Murdoch anoints for power :x
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