g-boaf wrote:The problem is Zebee, by taking that attitude (and the sarcasm against others riders), you are accepting and embracing the law changes,
The requirement for a bell is not a change, it has always been there and you were always liable to be prosecuted for it. THe steep rise in fines is different.
g-boaf wrote:Bells are useless, it is far safer to call out. The bell doesn't tell people where you are and on what side you will pass them. Calling out does. I slow down and call out to people. Even if it means almost track-standing. I won't overtake some people until they've acknowledged that I'm there.
As stated, that is a very differnt experience to mine in every respect. I commute daily on paths and a bicycle is my main transport. I find a bell is far from useless, people seem to manage very well indeed when I use it. When I tried without, they didn't react at all well, usually ignoring me. "why don't you have a bell" was quite a common reaction.
zebee wrote:If you can't control your bike with one hand at shared path speeds get the training wheels back on, you are a danger to yourself and others.
g-boaf wrote:That's a pretty cheap and nasty shot, but it's utterly typical of the tribe mentality of cyclists, fire away with spectacularly nasty insults and then wonder why those you insult aren't nice in return or don't wave when they are riding towards you, or overtaking for that matter.
Really? When someone uses the excuse they they can't control their bike with one hand so they can't use a bell, my reaction is still to say that they are clearly not skilled enough to be riding the bike at the speeds they are riding at. It was me calling out a rubbish excuse and I stand by it. IT was not a nervous novice worried, it was someone who was trying to find a "safety" reason to be a special snowflake. I've been active in road safety lobbying for a long time and have learned that silly safety reasons are common on both sides - user and government - and need to be called out when they happen.
Is a bell a safety item? Clearly cyclists disagree. THe law has been the law longer than I have been alive so is it a good fight to fight right now? I think the fight has to be the fines and the nonsense "safety" excuses, the law of having a bell is going to be a losing struggle. Having our own nonsense safety excuses weakens the fight we have to fight, it gives our opponents a clear shot at goal. If you bring that "can't ring my bell safely on a shared path" idea in public just how will it be received?
g-boaf wrote:Bashing away on the bell should not be an excuse for not slowing down appropriately and giving people a bit of warning that you are passing. It doesn't kill the average speed to do that.
No amount of any kind of warning is an excuse for not riding properly, we agree on that. We may disagree on how much average speed is sensible around peds on a shared path perhaps, but I doubt it.
The sensible thing is to work out what to focus on in this fight. Repealing a very old, and until some people got dinged for it forgotten, law? Not a fight I want to fight, but if you do how would you do it? How would you convince the general public that a bell should not be mandatory? What can you do to convince non cyclists that having one on your bike is a dreadful imposition? I can't think of anything
What has to be done is to show that a heavy fine for not having one is silly. Alas that might be a loser too because the average person is going to say "so put one on, how hard can it be?" What answer is there to that? A little and utterly useless bell such as is on the Brompton makes me immune to that heavy fine. That might be a line to take, saying that a useless bell is useless so why mandate it, but a very dangerous one as it just invites bell standards... and you can bet they'll require one that can be heard over traffic at 20 metres!
THe bell thing upsets some cyclists I honestly don't see why. But I do think it's the wrong hill to die on. I'd rather spend time and effort on the other fines and on pushing the government to actively enforce the 1m rule perhaps with a requirement for police action if given video.
The heavy enforcement of minor safety things against cyclists and the poor enforcement of "minor" safety things against cars is the fight I think needs fighting. Stupid things drivers do that when it is car vs car is a trip to the panelbeaters and the cops ignore them because that's all it is, but are life threatening when cyclists are involved, that's the fight I think needs fighting. Challenge the government to properly enforce *all* laws, not just the easy pickings of speed cameras and bells.
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wipe the road grime off first {/edit}
