Harbour Bridge ramp

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Warin
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby Warin » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:01 am

sir_camel wrote:I'm also nervous that when it is being constructed they will close the bridge to bikes for a year or something crazy.
Hopefully the eastern side would be 'open' for cyclist during that time... fingers crossed :?

From the video .. looks to me like the ramp at the bottom finishes about the same place as the steps ... meaning the bottom connection would be about the same .. where as the top connection point will be somewhere south of the present top of the steps.

What will be the incline? 20% will have some walking and others cycling .. not good. 10% would be better.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby find_bruce » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:22 am

Warin wrote:What will be the incline? 20% will have some walking and others cycling .. not good. 10% would be better.
Not much point spending the money if significant numbers have to walk. Steeper usually means faster descents as well

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:46 am

From the video it appeared there would be ends, one where the existing stairs are and the other at the roundabout. Is there a diagram somewhere?
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby familyguy » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:27 am

Diagram here Mike: https://bicyclensw.org.au/advocacy/bnsw ... -cycleway/

Unsure which option is being pursued, but they are both significantly longer than current stairs, which would flatten the grade to 4-5% at a guess.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:31 pm

I've noticed that Duncan Gay is keen on big schemes and the ramp off the harbour bridge cycleway is a major piece of work that is badly needed, so hats off to him when he gets it across the line
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:29 am

Re the cost, I've noticed that there is a proposed cycle and pedestrian bridge for Narrabeen lakes with a price tag of $3M Northern beachs proposal

I can perceive the ramp being twice as expensive but I can't see how it could be 10 fold
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby find_bruce » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:10 pm

One Tibby Cotter =$38m so anything cheaper is a model of efficiency:roll:

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby Warin » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:44 am

familyguy wrote:Diagram here Mike: https://bicyclensw.org.au/advocacy/bnsw ... -cycleway/

Unsure which option is being pursued, but they are both significantly longer than current stairs, which would flatten the grade to 4-5% at a guess.

Jim
The above diagram has 2 suggestions by BNSW. Being a pessimist I'd think they are going for 'ramp C' option ... ramp lower end about the same place as the present steps lower end. BNSW 'ramp A' is a good (hopeful) possibility.

Another guess at incline :?:
Looking at the present steps they look to consist of 10 steps of say 180 mm rise each between landings .. and 5 sets of them .. making a total of about a 9 meter rise ... that would make for about a 4.5% incline if the ramp has the same rise and the quoted distance of 200m is the horizontal run rather than the traverse. However the ramp won't quite be in the same place as it is longer.

Fairly good guess there Jim.

'Ramp C' would have a slightly worse incline than ~4.5%, 'ramp A' a better incline and 'ramp B' would have the best incline... simply because of the inclines of the land (at the bottom of the ramp) and the bridge (at the top of the ramp).

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby roberto73 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:22 pm

Bicycle NSW is proposing two ramps be built. Not a choice of one or another. One ramp gets you down to the park from the steps, the next ramp starts a bit further north in the park and goes under the railway through the arch and then up to the end of the disused old railway reservation. This solution was first proposed by Russell Webber from NS Bug around 2000 as part of his HabourLink proposal, which would have proceeded further north on a cycleway hung of the side of the Freeway, with a grade of about 3 % up to the top of the ridge. North Sydney Council did a study on it and there was a campaign to build it all but funds never came. Russell made a comment on Sydneycyclist recently about his concept.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby Warin » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:42 am

roberto73 wrote:Bicycle NSW is proposing two ramps be built. Not a choice of one or another. One ramp gets you down to the park from the steps,
Ramp A
roberto73 wrote:the next ramp starts a bit further north in the park and goes under the railway through the arch and then up to the end of the disused old railway reservation.
Ramp B
Ramp designations are as stated in https://bicyclensw.org.au/advocacy/bnsw ... -cycleway/.

The press talks of a ramp = singular. So I think one ramp is being build.

I have made up ramp C, above, as an alternative to A and B. Cost wise ramp C would be cheapest, ramp B the most expensive.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby AndrewCowley » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:09 pm

I'm wary that once the plans get released and it becomes clear that the park near the station will be impacted that various nimby groups will come out of the woodwork and kill it.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby Warin » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:34 pm

AndrewCowley wrote:I'm wary that once the plans get released and it becomes clear that the park near the station will be impacted that various nimby groups will come out of the woodwork and kill it.
Yes and No.

Ramp C would be in about the same place at the bottom as the present steps, minimal change.

Ramp A moves the landing place further up beyond the station entry. If the steps go (and I think they will) then the ramps landing place is offset by the removal of the steps landing place.

Ramp B landing place is so far away ... objection might be seen to be 'unreasonable'.

However what comes out with the release may well be something else ... ramp D. :?
Last edited by Warin on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:59 pm

If one ramp is finishing where the existing steps are, then that would almost certainly mean that the demolishing of the existing steps. However that doesn't mean they have to close the cycleway during construction, as they could build the other ramp first
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby zebee » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:18 pm

Is there anything in the promises about being able to ride the ramp? Or will they just concrete over the steps?

To avoid impact on the path they could put in a spiral ramp like the Anzac Bridge eastern access. Or a couple of tight u turns.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby recumbenteer » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:16 pm

zebee wrote:Is there anything in the promises about being able to ride the ramp? Or will they just concrete over the steps?

To avoid impact on the path they could put in a spiral ramp like the Anzac Bridge eastern access. Or a couple of tight u turns.

Zebee

....as long as it's Trike & Velomobile friendly......

There's more than just DF's out there!! :evil:
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby find_bruce » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:24 pm

recumbenteer wrote:....as long as it's Trike & Velomobile friendly......

There's more than just DF's out there!! :evil:
As zeebee would know. Is the green rocket able to navigate the Anzac bridge ramp ?

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby recumbenteer » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:47 pm

find_bruce wrote:
recumbenteer wrote:....as long as it's Trike & Velomobile friendly......

There's more than just DF's out there!! :evil:
As zeebee would know. Is the green rocket able to navigate the Anzac bridge ramp ?
Yes it does..pretty much...almost, if I judge the turn correctly, it can be done without a 3 point turn
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:22 pm

recumbenteer wrote:....as long as it's Trike & Velomobile friendly......

There's more than just DF's out there!! :evil:
I would certainly hope so.

The current configuration grossly discriminates against against disabled riders wanting to access the city from the north. This includes hand-cycle and trike users like gretaboy when he was recovering from being run over by an SUV. In fact I am surprised there has been no action under the Anti-Discrimination Act on this basis against the government. Perhaps they've conveniently legislated a loophole for themselves.

It also keeps e-Bike users and cargo bikes out.

Resolving these problems is the single most important reason for replacing the stairs in my view. The ramp is a nice-to-have for the current user population, but it is *vital* for the section of the cycling population we never see on the bridge cycleway.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby zebee » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:54 pm

recumbenteer wrote:
....as long as it's Trike & Velomobile friendly......

There's more than just DF's out there!! :evil:
You know that, I know that.... But few others do. Especially few in government.

Maybe what is needed is find where these planners are trained, or find what conferences they go to. Then organise a demo of "what pedal powered looks like". Some trikes both delta and tadpole (as Anuras are quite long),some kid/dog trailer users, cargo bike users, bakfiets, and of course velomobiles.

Then challenge them to find a way to block a bike path that allows all those and does not allow a kid on a 125 trailbike. Be fun to see them break their brains on that. Once they've given up they get to do something there is an answer to, like ramp design.

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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:15 pm

back in the news after been rejected in 2018, they are now looking to do it, according to this article;

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/sydney/n ... d=msedgntp
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:51 pm

Why do I first now find out that "community opposition sidelined the project".
Those residents do enjoy blocking things... just remember, lights at at 7pm!

Wonder why Bicycle NSW isn't being asked and doesn't have a spokesperson... considering that they have traditionally been more engaged and involved as the cyclist representative body for this infrastructure project.
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:31 pm

Apparently the bike ramp was going to block their view of the Bridge, ie they couldn't sit on their balcony and admire the motorcars driving past. Jokes aside I think the objections were just and excuse for the minister at that point to avoid bicycle infrastructure and the restart is due to having a new minister. Am I right or wrong?
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:52 pm

I am assuming that any new project will always face opposition... those big $1million a meter freeway projects also get a massive amount of community opposition (with forced property acquisition, noise and pollution concerns and increasing access costs).

The various design plans for the cycle access ramps were all fairly attractive. Or rather, none were an eyesore and cause for concern.

Maybe you are right @mikesbytes - for riders in Sydney, a decent on-ramp to cross the Harbour Bridge is considered the holy grail. Ministers whip up support knowing they are never really going to deliver.
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby recumbenteer » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:42 pm

find_bruce wrote:
Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:24 pm
recumbenteer wrote:....as long as it's Trike & Velomobile friendly......

There's more than just DF's out there!! :evil:
As zeebee would know. Is the green rocket able to navigate the Anzac bridge ramp ?

Yes, the Green Rocket can navigate the Anzac bridge ramp...from the City :) ....and in the days before, the Victoria Rd over bridge was do-able, (all be it with 1 three-point turn) as well..... 8)

I'm yet to attempt City access from Lilyfield Rd since the Vic Rd., bridge was demolished :evil:
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Re: Harbour Bridge ramp

Postby recumbenteer » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:46 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:22 pm
recumbenteer wrote:....as long as it's Trike & Velomobile friendly......

There's more than just DF's out there!! :evil:
I would certainly hope so.


In fact I am surprised there has been no action under the Anti-Discrimination Act on this basis against the government. Perhaps they've conveniently legislated a loophole for themselves.

It also keeps e-Bike users and cargo bikes out.

Resolving these problems is the single most important reason for replacing the stairs in my view. The ramp is a nice-to-have for the current user population, but it is *vital* for the section of the cycling population we never see on the bridge cycleway.

:idea: ""action under the Anti-Discrimination Act"" :idea:

might be worth "having a chat" with them
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