Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

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biker jk
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby biker jk » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:26 pm

otway wrote:There are no quiet times on the Ocean Road these days, just days that aren't as busy.With international tourist making their way down here the bike ride gets in the way, it stops the hundreds of various size tourist buses stopping for lunch and a constant flow tourist driving themselves staying the night, we are talking thousands of people a day. Thanks for not buying Australian when you were asked too, someone had to get an advantage from it and it is us down here :D All jokes aside, when this fondo is on the streets are empty, some shops just close up, some can't, no one stops a Kennet or Wye rivers but these people are stuck, they can't leave, both shops have to be open because they are newsagents, we get more tourists with the road opened, also it is just not one road it is the Skenes/Forrest/Deans Marsh Roads, it's just unfair and all we get is lip service from the organisers.


Were your takings down after the fatal bus crash on the GOR closed it? There have been 213 recorded crashes and six fatalities on the GOR over the past five years yet you are complaining about a charity bike ride closing the roads for one day a year.

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:08 am

There are a few other charitable groups that close the Ocean rd for their use, so it is just not one day, those other groups give back to the local community. Amy's Grand Fondo has been asked if they would consider contributing toward extending the walking/bike track from Apollo Bay to Skenes Creek , they declined.
I got on this forum to try and raise awareness to you normal everyday cyclists that this "charitable organisation" is screwing over a couple of small communities in your name. I don't own an accommodation business or cafe I'm a tradie so it only affects me financially by there being less money in town to trickle through to me.
"BikerJK" Googling statistics on over 800km of road is a pretty weak point you are making, I hope the weather is favourable for your final ride this year in the Fondo and the new venue next year to your liking.

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:17 am

COLAC Otway Shire has announced its support for this year’s popular cycling race Amy’s Gran Fondo, ending months of uncertainty.

However, council moved an “absence of support” for the Gran Fondo in 2019 and 2020 in a closed meeting last week, pledging support only as far as this year’s planned September event.

The decision comes after cloud of doubt was thrown over the race in December after Cr Stephen Hart called for council to cut ties with the high-profile cycling event.

Cr Hart made the call after increasing complaints from Apollo Bay locals over lost business and tourism due to significant road closures along the Great Ocean Road.

A local survey carried out after the 2017 event found that a majority of business operators (55 per cent) and residents (53 per cent) didn’t support Amy’s Gran Fondo.

The race is run by the Amy Gillett Foundation, which promotes bike awareness and safety on the roads.

SCRAP IT: Councillor wants to cut ties

Amy Gillett Foundation media and marketing manager Martin Wells said the foundation did not view the survey as an accurate representation of the communities feelings.



“The Amy Gillett Foundation has exciting plans for the future of Wiggle Amy’s Gran Fondo, to be unveiled shortly, which will see new routes, new rides and an expanded event format in the Surf Coast Shire.”

RYAN REYNOLDS: On the road for the Cadel Evans race

Colac Otway Mayor Cr Joe McCracken said the council was mindful that the foundation would have already begun planning for the 2018 event.

“Council are extremely keen to work with Amy’s Gran Fondo organisers to provide an event which meets expectations of event participants, visitors and the Apollo Bay community,” he said.

The 2017 Amy’s Gran Fondo attracted 5000 riders and a further 13,000 visitors to the coast, with a report finding that it contributed almost $22 million to the regional economy. However, a large majority of that money is believed to have been spent in the Surf Coast Shire.

vaypaz
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby vaypaz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:46 pm

Wow shame to hear there’s so much discontent from the locals for what is such an amazing event.

I believe that roads are for everybody and not solely for businesses to make money off, but I also respect the businesses right to complain if they are losing money and do empathise.

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:16 pm

vaypaz wrote:Wow shame to hear there’s so much discontent from the locals for what is such an amazing event.

I believe that roads are for everybody and not solely for businesses to make money off, but I also respect the businesses right to complain if they are losing money and do empathise.


LOL, We also believe that the roads are for everyone, including the people from Kennet and Wye River or any of the propertys that use the Great Ocean Road or Forrest road for access who are stuck there for the day unable to go to work or any other recreational activities. These people have the right to go to work and serve you a well earn't drink after your satisfying ride.
Amy's Grand Fondo is a business that has a CEO and executives to pay before it becomes charitable, so really it is just one business shafting a lot of smaller ones. Most people in the local area see the irony in an event promoting the safe sharing of the road, by excluding all other vehicles other than bikes. :roll:

BJL
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby BJL » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:07 pm

otway wrote:
vaypaz wrote:Wow shame to hear there’s so much discontent from the locals for what is such an amazing event.

I believe that roads are for everybody and not solely for businesses to make money off, but I also respect the businesses right to complain if they are losing money and do empathise.


LOL, We also believe that the roads are for everyone, including the people from Kennet and Wye River or any of the propertys that use the Great Ocean Road or Forrest road for access who are stuck there for the day unable to go to work or any other recreational activities. These people have the right to go to work and serve you a well earn't drink after your satisfying ride.
Amy's Grand Fondo is a business that has a CEO and executives to pay before it becomes charitable, so really it is just one business shafting a lot of smaller ones. Most people in the local area see the irony in an event promoting the safe sharing of the road, by excluding all other vehicles other than bikes. :roll:


Aside from Amy's Grand Fondo, most charities have CEO's and executives to pay before they become charities hence why I don't donate to charities anymore. My concern is that you seem to have a problem with closed roads for cycling events but haven't mentioned any one of the other numerous events held around the country every year which also require road closures. Also to the exclusion of other road users for a period of time. A while ago, I was prevented from riding up the last half of Lake Mountain (we rode from Warburton via Reefton) because of a car rally. What about MY rights? And some motorcyclists were stopped at Camberville Junction that day. What about their rights?

For me, I'm quite happy for Amy's Grand Fondo to be held on open roads each year if it's what you want. But if you don't want the event to be held at all, just don't forget that it's not against the law for 5,000 cyclists to decide they all want to ride the Great Ocean Road between Lorne and Apollo Bay on the same day and just happen to start their rides at the same time. Nothing 'organized'. No more organized than Melbourne's daily traffic congestion with thousands of unrelated motorists all driving in 'bunches' clogging up the roads. And no more illegal.

Would that be more to your liking?

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:26 pm

[quote="BJL". A while ago, I was prevented from riding up the last half of Lake Mountain (we rode from Warburton via Reefton) because of a car rally. What about MY rights? And some motorcyclists were stopped at Camberville Junction that day. What about their rights?



[/quote]
You don't get it do you, or you don't want to. If you were stopped from accessing your own property by a public road, because someone was making a living out of holding an event then I reckon you would have every right to jump up and down on the spot and yell and scream at whoever was denying you access, we're not talking about someone inconvenienced on their Sunday ride, It's about denying access to peoples properties and on top of that a negative effect on the local tourist market.

BJL
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby BJL » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:07 pm

otway wrote:
You don't get it do you, or you don't want to. If you were stopped from accessing your own property by a public road, because someone was making a living out of holding an event then I reckon you would have every right to jump up and down on the spot and yell and scream at whoever was denying you access, we're not talking about someone inconvenienced on their Sunday ride, It's about denying access to peoples properties and on top of that a negative effect on the local tourist market.


I do get it. You're upset over a cycling event closing a road that inconveniences locals which is fair enough, except that you haven't mentioned or criticized organizers of other events which also close roads to the inconvenience of locals. If you want cycling events such as this to cease, then insist that ALL events that close ANY public roads cease. Then you might have a little more credibility.

Edit - I'm getting sick of all the hypocrisy over road closures for cycling events. Its been discussed on here before but I'll mention it again to refresh everyone's memory.

When BN wanted to hold the women's ascent challenge in the Dandenongs, the locals had a real big hissyfit over road closures. There were tacks thrown on Mountain Hwy near The Basin and I believe that a group of protesters showed up on the day. The Basin CFA cracked the sads and mulled over how they were ever to get the fire trucks up the mountain in an emergency. The locals did everything they could to discourage the event. The road was closed for a few hours at most.

More recently, Vicroads COMPLETELY closed Mountain Hwy for EIGHT WEEKS for repair. No one said a thing.

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 am

BJL wrote:
otway wrote:
You don't get it do you, or you don't want to. If you were stopped from accessing your own property by a public road, because someone was making a living out of holding an event then I reckon you would have every right to jump up and down on the spot and yell and scream at whoever was denying you access, we're not talking about someone inconvenienced on their Sunday ride, It's about denying access to peoples properties and on top of that a negative effect on the local tourist market.


I do get it. You're upset over a cycling event closing a road that inconveniences locals which is fair enough, except that you haven't mentioned or criticized organizers of other events which also close roads to the inconvenience of locals. If you want cycling events such as this to cease, then insist that ALL events that close ANY public roads cease. Then you might have a little more credibility.

Edit - I'm getting sick of all the hypocrisy over road closures for cycling events. Its been discussed on here before but I'll mention it again to refresh everyone's memory.

When BN wanted to hold the women's ascent challenge in the Dandenongs, the locals had a real big hissyfit over road closures. There were tacks thrown on Mountain Hwy near The Basin and I believe that a group of protesters showed up on the day. The Basin CFA cracked the sads and mulled over how they were ever to get the fire trucks up the mountain in an emergency. The locals did everything they could to discourage the event. The road was closed for a few hours at most.

More recently, Vicroads COMPLETELY closed Mountain Hwy for EIGHT WEEKS for repair. No one said a thing.

Maybe vicroads consulted the residence in the area affected and had a good traffic management plan to allow local traffic to access their property? That's something Amy's Grand Fondo management has not bothered with year after year and eventually their arrogance had to catch up with them, many years residents have not been informed what roads are going to be closed when. If it affect residents directly it is up to the event organizers to inform the residents.
As I have told you earlier, other events that have used the area have donated substantial amounts to the local community hospital, the Fondo give zilch.
Don't worry mate, the slot that the Fondo is vacating will be filled by some other organization and the road will be closed, but there will be a bit of give and take and the community will be consulted. I think maybe the cycling community lives in a little bubble that get fed information from people that have an interest in "growing the sport" but it's more about feathering there own nest.

Come on BJL, "the CFA cracking the sads"? An volunteer organization that knows the area showing concern for how they can be able to do their job if an emergency arises during the event. Be a shame if lives were lost in a fire because they were not able to there.

Cyclophiliac
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby Cyclophiliac » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:28 am

otway wrote:
BJL wrote:Come on BJL, "the CFA cracking the sads"? An volunteer organization that knows the area showing concern for how they can be able to do their job if an emergency arises during the event. Be a shame if lives were lost in a fire because they were not able to there.

You're raising a scenario that will never occur. If the CFA have to respond quickly to a fire emergency, it certainly won't be cyclists blocking their route, it will be motor vehicles. The hypocrisy BJL mentioned is very evident.

fat and old
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:07 am

How will the local shire stop this? All of it's run on Vic Roads roads, barring a small section near Murroon (which I'm thinking is V/R owned anyway). Council/shire cannot stop activities on roads it doesn't have responsibility for afaik? Either way, doesn't matter if they transfer it to Surf Coast Shire. There's not really all that much to Apollo Bay if you're not chasing Tuna.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby Arbuckle23 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:21 am

What I get out of Otway's posts is that Lorne gets all the income form the event but Apollo Bay is feeling left out a bit. I can also understand some residents feeling miffed about it coming past their house. Having dealt with residents in running many car rallies over the year I found that some are happy and make no noise, the ones that are not happy tend to make a lot of noise.

Beach Road gets closed off for Triathlons quite a few times over summer, the Nepean Hwy gets closed off around Frankston for the same reason . I suspect the local residents there get upset. There are still some complaining about the Grand Prix closing off Albert Park.

In regards to where the money is spent, most goes to Lorne of course as the event is based there. But there is overflow that goes to Apollo Bay and surrounds. Perhaps those running Air Bnb's need to be consulted to see if they don't want the event?
I suspect that no matter what benefit there is to local businesses, there will be some that wish to influence the council to not support it.
It seems to me that that many locals would like there to be no events or tourists in their region so can live a quiet life and not be bothered by "blowins". You get that on the Mornington Peninsula as well, the locals hate tourists or holiday makers.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 am

It's not a case of Lorne making all the money as shops in Lorne reported that they were empty for the lunchtime trade, on a normal weekend they also do better.
You guys still ignore the people in Kennett and Wye Rivers that have legitimate beef with not being able to use the road to go to work, some have to find accommodation the night before, it's at their expense, what's right about that?
Of course some people are not going to be happy because ....well that's what makes them happy :) but this is a majority of people here and the local council is listening and have withdrawn their support, the surfcoast council is also reviewing it. Yes Vic Roads may overrule everyone, but they are likely to listen to the council rather than a group of residents without the backing of council.

fat and old
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:02 pm

otway wrote:You guys still ignore the people in Kennett and Wye Rivers that have legitimate beef with not being able to use the road to go to work,


I think maybe the cycling community lives in a little bubble that get fed information from people that have an interest in "growing the sport" but it's more about feathering there own nest


So who wants to feather their own nest...on a weekend...now? :lol: Mate, there's less than 130 residents in those two towns anyway. And I find it hard to believe that they're locked up, all day. How many hours is the GOR closed at that point?

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:54 pm

fat and old wrote:
otway wrote:You guys still ignore the people in Kennett and Wye Rivers that have legitimate beef with not being able to use the road to go to work,


I think maybe the cycling community lives in a little bubble that get fed information from people that have an interest in "growing the sport" but it's more about feathering there own nest


So who wants to feather their own nest...on a weekend...now? :lol: Mate, there's less than 130 residents in those two towns anyway. And I find it hard to believe that they're locked up, all day. How many hours is the GOR closed at that point?

I'd hardly call wanting to be able to go to work or even just leaving their property feathering their nest,

It's closed 8am through to around 5pm, tell me how do leave Kennet or Wye River if you not going to use 4wd tracks. So you reckon lets say a couple of hundred people as we can't forget those interbreds that live in them there hills should just twiddle their thumbs all day? Your just stirring the pot fatandold, I was asked for the facts when I first posted and I've done my best to present them.

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queequeg
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby queequeg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:32 pm

Well, for the 2018 Event, all the planned closures are up now, along with when information sessions are being held

https://amysgranfondo.org.au/event-info ... formation/

That gives you 9 months to plan for having a few hours of your Sunday in September slightly inconvenienced.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

fat and old
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:55 pm

otway wrote:It's closed 8am through to around 5pm


I'd actually thought that it would only be closed from maybe 11-12.00. I didn't realise that the shorter ride started in Apollo Bay. You've got that, plus a family event, and the Cyclocross races. And it's not financially a benefit?

I'd hardly call wanting to be able to go to work or even just leaving their property feathering their nest


I referred to work. Not leaving your home. Going to work is what the people you accuse of feathering their own nest are doing. Just because YOU don't want to acknowledge it doesn't mean they're not working. The statement "feathering their own nest" applies equally in this case. You can't have it both ways

Your just stirring the pot fatandold,


Really?

Don't worry mate, the slot that the Fondo is vacating will be filled by some other organization and the road will be closed, but there will be a bit of give and take and the community will be consulted


These people have the right to go to work and serve you a well earn't drink after your satisfying ride.
Amy's Grand Fondo is a business that has a CEO and executives to pay before it becomes charitable, so really it is just one business shafting a lot of smaller ones. Most people in the local area see the irony in an event promoting the safe sharing of the road, by excluding all other vehicles other than bikes


enjoy the last one this year


You came here, crowing about the local success in getting rid of the event, so suck it up :lol:

Best bit is that regardless of it staying in Lorne, the GOR will still be shut down blocking access to those places along the beach route. I might even be bothered to ride it now :lol:

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queequeg
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby queequeg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:55 pm

Curious to note that for the 2018 event, there are a number of rides that are starting and finishing in Apollo Bay

Medio Fondo / Gravel Fondo / Family Fondo Start in Apollo Bay

After the success of the Medio Fondo at Apollo Bay; the RACV Gravel Fondo and TAC Family Fondo events will start at the foreshore carpark behind the Visitor Information Centre. This event will attract over 1000 people to the Apollo Bay area.

The event encourages participants competing in this event to stay at Apollo Bay through providing accommodation options on the Wiggle Amy’s Gran Fondo website.

Saturday’s activities on the foreshore will see the inclusion of a cyclocross event that is part of the wider Victorian CX. There will be no road closures for this event.


So, it seems a bit at odds with "Apollo Bay gets nothing out of the event".

Hmmm...
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:21 pm

I didn't come on here crowing, I was just hoping to point out that an organization that represents cycling was doing the average cyclists reputation no favours and maybe if cyclists were made aware of it there might be some change. And yes your right old man it is going ahead this year, like I said in my first post so your not telling me something I don't know.

Well Queequeg, since you bring this up last years cyclcross was straw that broke the camels back, the team that was officiating told a few of the local kids to F%# off we're having a bike race and this skate park is a part of it, they didn't realize that these kids had their parents with them those parents were on the comity that looks after the skate park and it has boiled over from their. these are nice kids, they never even opened their mouths before copping abuse.

The long and short of it is a big "Charitable" organisation is coming in and bullying people to get what they want, no consideration for anyone but themselves. They do thing without asking, they make agreements they don't keep. They represent your community, so it rubs off on peoples attitudes when they interact with you guys on the roads. Stupid isn't it? It's something that should be fixed, Amy's fondo does nothing to help bridge the gap between cyclists and motorists. When your average motorist sees a bike rider they think of Tony Abbot, sorry that's cruel, See ya later I've had enough, I've made you aware and you don't care. No surprises!

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queequeg
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby queequeg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:06 pm

otway wrote:
Well Queequeg, since you bring this up last years cyclcross was straw that broke the camels back, the team that was officiating told a few of the local kids to F%# off we're having a bike race and this skate park is a part of it, they didn't realize that these kids had their parents with them those parents were on the comity that looks after the skate park and it has boiled over from their. these are nice kids, they never even opened their mouths before copping abuse.

The long and short of it is a big "Charitable" organisation is coming in and bullying people to get what they want, no consideration for anyone but themselves. They do thing without asking, they make agreements they don't keep. They represent you community.


I didn't bring anything up at all, I am am simply reposting what is on their Website. I am not involved with the running of the event, nor am I a stakeholder in the event. I can't comment on what various individuals on the day do, and it's hard to verify the above treatment of the kids (which is pretty bad if it true, and I'd be pretty annoyed at it too). In terms of them representing "cyclists" as a community, that is no more true than it is of event organisers for a V8 street race representing "motorists" as a community.

If the residents of Apollo Bay etc don't want the event unless there is some sort of cash incentive, as is their right, then that is fine. I do note that the organisers grant all residents along the GOR a 50% discount on the entry should they wish to participate. Why not celebrate the fact that the roads are closed and get out an enjoy something you would not otherwise be able to do without fear of someone in a 4WD running you down from behind because they were in a hurry to get to work.

It's not just the AGF ride having this issue. In NSW we have rides getting cancelled because police refuse approvals to use certain roads, won't permit roads to be closed because of perceived issues with holding up poor motorists...because as you know, the car is king and we must all kneel before the mighty petroleum gods and pay homage to Lord Octane.

Really all this comes down to is a simple case of NIMBY. You can dress it up however you like, but not being able to drive your car for 12 hours on some roads is not the end of the world. There is 9 months advance notice of the closures, so it's not like you'll go down your driveway on the Sunday morning and be surprised by someone stopping you or sending you on a detour that avoids the closure.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:32 pm

Okay, one last thing on giving notice of road closures, people don't tend to check what roads are closed on the fondo website because they have A. no interest in cycling and B. no notification that it is on. The fondo organisers are meant to do a mail drop, that didn't happen.

Most years it takes people by surprise as it is not memorable event if you are not in the cycling world.People don't mark it on the calander and wait in anticipation. On the other hand we do look forward to the marathon every May, the two events are chalk and cheese in their organisation skills.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:05 pm

otway wrote:Okay, one last thing on giving notice of road closures, people don't tend to check what roads are closed on the fondo website because they have A. no interest in cycling and B. no notification that it is on.


The local paper doesn't have anything on it? Really? You have no interest in accessing your property and work? Really?

Colac Herald, 2011
https://www.colacherald.com.au/2011/06/ ... or-safety/

Colac Herald, 2012
https://www.colacherald.com.au/2012/09/ ... -on-lorne/

Apollo Bay Community Website 2017
https://www.apollobay.vic.au/apollo-bay ... gran-fondo

That included this

Traffic Hotline

For information and advice during the event, a traffic hotline will operate at the following times:

• Friday 15 September between 9:00am and 5:00pm

• Saturday 16 September between 9:00am and 8:00pm

• Sunday 17 September between 5:30am and 4:30pm

The contact for the traffic hotline is 0448 813 433.

The contact email for any traffic concerns is operations@sme360.com.au.


Things to do in Lorne, 2016
https://www.escape.com.au/holiday-ideas ... 1517814205

Colac-Otway Shire site, 2017
http://www.colacotway.vic.gov.au/Upcomi ... Gran-Fondo

And so on. Come on champ, if the community doesn't know it's on they've been in a coma.


Most years it takes people by surprise as it is not memorable event if you are not in the cycling world.


Fair enough too. But.........

Not a valid argument seeing as how it's got to the point that you are all so sick and tired of it you need to track down a website to let the world know about your feelings on the matter. You can't really expect people to believe that something that is so upsetting to you gets forgotten about straight away?


And yes your right old man it is going ahead this year, like I said in my first post so your not telling me something I don't know.


Read what I posted again. It's gonna keep on going, year after year, even after Colac-Otway gets rid of it. Surf Coast will keep it, and the GOR still gets closed upstream from you.

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:34 pm

Well old man of course they are putting in the effort to inform everyone as they have been put on notice, they did not put in the same effort last year.
If they take to the surf coast that would be good, at least the cape otway road will be open and the tourists can come if they want, The Cadel does that and it doesn't really affect us,
What is the attraction with the ocean road anyway, it's a crappy road that's been loved to death,

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:33 pm

Well old man of course they are putting in the effort to inform everyone as they have been put on notice, they did not put in the same effort last year.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Exposed for the person you are. Have a good one; enjoy the area you live in. Etc etc.

otway
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:26 am

fat and old wrote:
Well old man of course they are putting in the effort to inform everyone as they have been put on notice, they did not put in the same effort last year.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Exposed for the person you are. Have a good one; enjoy the area you live in. Etc etc.



Hmmm...yeah , exposed for what? They got a kick up bum from council who honoured their support for this year and withdrew it for 2019/20 www.colacotway.vic.gov.au/News-media/Amy’s-Gran-Fondo-to-take-place-in-Colac-Otway-Shire-in-2018 Simple as that, Goodbye.

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