Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

djw47
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby djw47 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:29 pm

RonK wrote:
djw47 wrote:There are heaps of female recreational cyclists who would put most male cyclists to shame. Have you ever actually ridden the 1 in 20? Firstly, it's not actually that big a climb, it's certainly not steep and first timers and beginners will manage it just fine.

1 in 20? That is a grade of just 5%. Big deal.


I'm not sure what your point is? The 1 in 20 is not a big climb and it's certainly not steep compared to virtually every other climb in the area. It may take a while but even the slowest cyclist can realistically manage it.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby RonK » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:22 pm

djw47 wrote:
RonK wrote:
djw47 wrote:There are heaps of female recreational cyclists who would put most male cyclists to shame. Have you ever actually ridden the 1 in 20? Firstly, it's not actually that big a climb, it's certainly not steep and first timers and beginners will manage it just fine.

1 in 20? That is a grade of just 5%. Big deal.


I'm not sure what your point is? The 1 in 20 is not a big climb and it's certainly not steep compared to virtually every other climb in the area.

Isn't that what I just said?
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby macca33 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:33 pm

Firstly, I know plenty of women who would smash a hilly 100Km circuit, so that is no issue.

Secondly, they have obviously applied for and been granted the relevant road closures, which indicates there has been sufficient planning for the event and appropriate risk management / traffic management contingencies employed.

Thirdly, is this an 'issue' because it is a women's-only ride - sure seems that way to me and if so, shame on the people feeding that garbage sentiment.

If people are so concerned they won't be able to ride their precious Dandenongs on that day, either head to the Strzeleckis or Baw Baws for some hills, or come down to Warragul for a race - put your money where your mouths are...

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby koshari » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:42 pm

BJL wrote:They're all prepared to sit there and complain about a few cyclists but what would you prefer to navigate around in a emergency? A bunch of cyclists riding to the left of the road or the gridlock of cars blocking Olinda or Sassafras entirely on a regular basis? Cars generally driven by morons whose attitude will be 'Well, I can't move because of all the cars in front so tough luck'. And then go on to blame cyclists for the trouble.

The whole thing smacks of incompetence by a number of organizations.


Well said, also not to mention we are in the middle of the roadworks season, plenty of disruptions everywhere I ride/drive atm. cant see a few cycle riders causing to much hasstle, emergency vehicles have sirens for such reasons, iam sure the riders would yield to such emergency services if the need arose.
Last edited by koshari on Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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djw47
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby djw47 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:06 pm

macca33 wrote:Thirdly, is this an 'issue' because it is a women's-only ride - sure seems that way to me and if so, shame on the people feeding that garbage sentiment.


Apart from the misogynist muppet earlier in this thread, I don't think the issues discussed in this thread are anything whatsoever to do with the genitalia of the people sitting on the bikes.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby Thoglette » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:13 pm

djw47 wrote:
macca33 wrote:Thirdly, is this an 'issue' because it is a women's-only ride - sure seems that way to me and if so, shame on the people feeding that garbage sentiment.


Apart from the misogynist muppet earlier in this thread, I don't think the issues discussed in this thread are anything whatsoever to do with the genitalia of the people sitting on the bikes.


I read macca's comment to mean "people are only complaining because it's a women's event" - i.e. that the complainers were tending to misogyny
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby BJL » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:38 pm

Thoglette wrote:I read macca's comment to mean "people are only complaining because it's a women's event" - i.e. that the complainers were tending to misogyny


The comments in the local rag didn't give me that impression.

It consisted of someone representing The Basin CFA complaining they weren't notified so they could come up with an appropriate plan in case of an emergency, some businessman complaining there was nothing in it for them except inconvenience and possible loss of trade, some idiot bloke who reckons that since cyclists use 'motorist's' roads, motorists should drive up and down the Warby trail and finally an idiot lady with the usual 'cyclists shouldn't be on the roads' crap.

As for the Warby trail comment, I'd be quite happy to trade with motorists, all bicycle and shared paths in Victoria in exchange for all roads.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:43 pm

macca33 wrote:Firstly, I know plenty of women who would smash a hilly 100Km circuit, so that is no issue.

Secondly, they have obviously applied for and been granted the relevant road closures, which indicates there has been sufficient planning for the event and appropriate risk management / traffic management contingencies employed.

Thirdly, is this an 'issue' because it is a women's-only ride - sure seems that way to me and if so, shame on the people feeding that garbage sentiment.

If people are so concerned they won't be able to ride their precious Dandenongs on that day, either head to the Strzeleckis or Baw Baws for some hills, or come down to Warragul for a race - put your money where your mouths are...

cheers



Why does everyone have to race in order to prove anything? Not everyone cares about racing. Your comment only proves how to be somewhat condescending.

Also I don't see why roads need to be totally closed. Events run around here don't get complete road closures all the time, even the big charity rides, and you get some quite new riders on those. There are usually volunteers helping keep things running smoothly. And importantly, they are good neighbours to the local residents. Everyone can exist happily together.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:00 am

An organised cycling event designed to promote cycling that has rolling road closures. And people say it's overkill?

Are you people insane?

No economical benefit to the community?

Does the community own the roads now? Is this by special agreement with the local motorists?

I haven't heard anything approaching this level of xenophobia since the last time I visited Fraser Island :lol:

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby BenGr » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:20 pm

fat and old wrote:
No economical benefit to the community?

Does the community own the roads now? Is this by special agreement with the local motorists?
:


It's naive to dismiss traders concerns. If the net result is less business for them they have every right to have their case heard. Whether or not is an actual issue though is another matter, but just saying harden up doesn't cut it.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:44 pm

fat and old wrote:An organised cycling event designed to promote cycling that has rolling road closures. And people say it's overkill?

Are you people insane?

No economical benefit to the community?

Does the community own the roads now? Is this by special agreement with the local motorists?

I haven't heard anything approaching this level of xenophobia since the last time I visited Fraser Island :lol:


Rolling closures is generally enough to keep cars away, and for new riders I'd say cars would be the scary bit. Other riders though, I don't really see the problem - they are harmless, and it must be said, sometimes very useful in the event that a participant in the organised event gets into trouble and a very experienced rider comes along and assists. I've done that before.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby djw47 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:51 pm

fat and old wrote:No economical benefit to the community?


The question is not only about benefit, it's about economic cost. If you own a small business that relies on passing trade - as many of the businesses in the Dandenongs do (nurseries, flowers sellers, cafes etc) and there is no passing trade for quarter of the weekend then that could be a huge deal for them. It's almost certain that people are overreacting and fearing the worst case scenario but to dismiss their fears or not give them a say only heightens their anger.

FWIW, I believe BNV held a community session for locals yesterday evening but I haven't heard any of the output from it yet so hopefully that will help calm the natives.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby biker jk » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:58 pm

djw47 wrote:
fat and old wrote:No economical benefit to the community?


The question is not only about benefit, it's about economic cost. If you own a small business that relies on passing trade - as many of the businesses in the Dandenongs do (nurseries, flowers sellers, cafes etc) and there is no passing trade for quarter of the weekend then that could be a huge deal for them. It's almost certain that people are overreacting and fearing the worst case scenario but to dismiss their fears or not give them a say only heightens their anger.

FWIW, I believe BNV held a community session for locals yesterday evening but I haven't heard any of the output from it yet so hopefully that will help calm the natives.


So these businesses annual profits are cut by 0.5% (assume all their profits come from weekends and they make no sales for 1/4 of a weekend). That's noise.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby BenGr » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:12 pm

biker jk wrote:
djw47 wrote:
fat and old wrote:No economical benefit to the community?


The question is not only about benefit, it's about economic cost. If you own a small business that relies on passing trade - as many of the businesses in the Dandenongs do (nurseries, flowers sellers, cafes etc) and there is no passing trade for quarter of the weekend then that could be a huge deal for them. It's almost certain that people are overreacting and fearing the worst case scenario but to dismiss their fears or not give them a say only heightens their anger.

FWIW, I believe BNV held a community session for locals yesterday evening but I haven't heard any of the output from it yet so hopefully that will help calm the natives.


So these businesses annual profits are cut by 0.5% (assume all their profits come from weekends and they make no sales for 1/4 of a weekend). That's noise.

So you say they can just get stuffed? Maybe next time an event is held there they'll put in a big effort to get it cancelled. If the councils perception of an event is that it has a net negative effect, then they won't approve the next one.

Don't be so short sighted.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby biker jk » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:39 pm

BenGr wrote:
So you say they can just get stuffed? Maybe next time an event is held there they'll put in a big effort to get it cancelled. If the councils perception of an event is that it has a net negative effect, then they won't approve the next one.

Don't be so short sighted.


Council should base it's decisions on facts not wild exaggerated claims and scaremongering. We had businesses in Surry Hills making similar exaggerated claims that the Bourke Street cycleway would destroy their businesses. Council consulted widely and ignored these small business owners claims that the world would end, and built the cycleway. Small businesses along the cycleway are thriving and property values have increased.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:27 pm

From the website



Find out more about local community opportunities for The RACV Ascent - Sunday 17 April

If you are looking for the changed traffic conditions along the route, click here

If you would like to be kept informed and up to date on all community updates in relation to The Ascent please fill in the expression of interest form (to the right of this page)



Community Groups

We are currently looking for community groups for volunteer positions - Bicycle Network will make a donation to local community groups who get involved in volunteering, to contact the volunteer team you can email: volunteer@bicyclenetwork.com.au or call 1800 639 634.



Local Business/Traders

We are seeking local business' in the area to get involved, we are looking for suppliers of all the food for the event, snacks and lunch. To get involved you can contact the Event Coordinator Kahlia Dix at email: kahliad@bicyclenetwork.com.au or call 03 8376 8845



Yarra Ranges Guide

If you would like to add or discuss your Business', Cafe, Bed and Breakfast etc being listed in our Yarra Ranges Guide, which gets sent out in all of our emails to riders, please contact the Event Coordinator Kahlia Dix at email: kahliad@bicyclenetwork.com.au or call 03 8376 8845



Unless that page has gone up in the last few days, I'd say the orgs are trying to engage the locals? They're even talking donations. Or do the locals want to continue the status quo....sit on your ass and wait for the mugs to walk in and pay the ridiculous "Dandenongs Tax"? God forbid that they try some engagement.

Beat up.

Edit........I pay a weekly "Sorrento tax", so it's not limited to the Dandenongs, but don't tell me it doesn't exist. Ever eaten at the restaurant near the sculptor's park, whatever it's called? What a rort :lol:

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:11 pm

BenGr wrote:The comment about the CFA volunteers being unable to get to the station is a valid concern, as they won't have sirens and lights. However if they do need to get to the station then the organises would have to consider stopping the event anyway. The traffic controllers should also be aware so a quick conversation should make it clear the urgency of the situation.

It is in April as far as I have read. Massive wildfire will be fairly low on the scale of probability. But if it does, you can be sure that cyclists will be getting out of the way as quick as possible once it is known.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:19 pm

BenGr wrote:What would put me off is the $189 entry fee.

But it IS Bicycle Network, after all. High-priced trashy rides are their forte :roll: :x

BenGr wrote:On a slightly related note: I wish event companies would release maps that are actually useful.

Yes, such a vague mud-map is truly going to let people know just where they are going.......NOT.

Maybe BN subscribes to the view that "women can't read maps" ??

The "map".

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:30 pm

The cut-off times will be departure times - you must have exited these rest stops or locations by the times outlined above. If you don’t meet the sector cut off time just after lunch, there will be an option to detour back to the finish line via a shorter loop. SAG wagons (support vehicle that collects riders that cannot continue on the ride) will be in place to collect any riders who are unable to reach these points in time. We ask that all riders who don’t meet the sector cut off timing, retire gracefully


Sounds to me like their 'rolling road closures" are going to be every bit of a nuisance to the participants as they will be to locals and other tourists. What on earth is it these days that road cyclists are viewed as too timid to share the road with other vehicles?? Most roadies have for the past 15-20 years been too scared to take their ultra-toys on a bit of gravel road; now they can't possibly travel out in the real traffic??

The mind boggles! I blame it on the parental paranoia that has been ever-increasing since the introduction of MHL :| :x
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby BJL » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:46 pm

Yeah, the map is a bit 'vague'. A Strava (or equivalent) course link would be appropriate.
Because of the early start, I'd assume the ride will be completed by most riders about 1:00 - 2:00pm at the latest and well away from the tourist road by 10:00am. This should minimize any inconvenience to locals and visitors to the region as it really only gets busy around midday. Monbulk Rd & Healesville - Koo Wee Rup (Cockatoo - Yellingbo) would be the only concern being later in the course as they're likely to be busy. Other roads being used in that region are usually pretty quiet.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby Uncle Just » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:51 pm

What on earth is it these days that road cyclists are viewed as too timid to share the road with other vehicles?? Most roadies have for the past 15-20 years been too scared to take their ultra-toys on a bit of gravel road; now they can't possibly travel out in the real traffic??

The mind boggles! I blame it on the parental paranoia that has been ever-increasing since the introduction of MHL


Isn't this ride meant to be for women who may be new to cycling? It's not designed as far as I can read for experienced cyclists comfortable with traffic.
The world has changed since the days when we rode comfortably over gravel roads and has little do to do with this ride. Far more have taken up the pastime and sport in recent years who didn't do an "apprenticeship" like you and I from a very early age. We need to be supportive of them. We all start from somewhere, either young or later in life. I hope a lot of these participants will gain the confidence to ride unsupported after doing events like this. I have my reservations about the cost but that's a personal decision for participants.
As for your MHL theory and relationship to this ride, I think that's speculation.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:58 pm

Uncle Just wrote:Isn't this ride meant to be for women who may be new to cycling? It's not designed as far as I can read for experienced cyclists comfortable with traffic.
The world has changed since the days when we rode comfortably over gravel roads and has little do to do with this ride. Far more have taken up the pastime and sport in recent years who didn't do an "apprenticeship" like you and I from a very early age. We need to be supportive of them. We all start from somewhere, either young or later in life. I hope a lot of these participants will gain the confidence to ride unsupported after doing events like this. I have my reservations about the cost but that's a personal decision for participants.
As for your MHL theory and relationship to this ride, I think that's speculation.

Yes, it is for women, but most of them will be adults, and many will even be licenced drivers. Play like adults for pity's sake :|

As for the roads in the Dandies and the traffic, as far as I am aware, none of the roads are gravel roads on the route I think. They may be using the Warburton Trail which is great gravel, but most roadies are still scared off from it. I've ridden that one happily on 20mm tyres. The rest of the roads are all good sealed roads, and at the time they will be riding traffic levels will be quite low. They even avoid a good quiet section of Sheffield Rd and take the riders out to busier Liverpool Rd, I'm guessing because of the gravel and a couple of hills :roll: Traffic levels out there are really not too much greater than 20 years ago (except for Sunday afternoons, mainly on the Tourist Road and Belgrave-Monbulk Rd). I used to live up there and have ridden those roads for many years. The winding roads mean that drivers are generally travelling even slower, and once the riders get out past Monbulk after their lunch stop (probably late morning) there will be even less traffic concern. Good warning signs should be plenty good-enough to keep the few drivers on their toes.

Not going to enter into a MHL discussion here - suffice to say the general trend of parental (and adult) paranoia is a really disturbing thing. How soon before twenty-somethings will need a note from mum to go on such a ride ?? :P
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby kb » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:02 am

Warby trail - not so much the gravel per se but all that dust. My poor baby ;-)
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I think confidence on roads comes from time on roads. Commutes helps a lot if you come from further out and are used to 60/70kph roads. if you're mostly used to inner city riding it can be a little intimidating.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby g-boaf » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:31 pm

il padrone wrote:
The cut-off times will be departure times - you must have exited these rest stops or locations by the times outlined above. If you don’t meet the sector cut off time just after lunch, there will be an option to detour back to the finish line via a shorter loop. SAG wagons (support vehicle that collects riders that cannot continue on the ride) will be in place to collect any riders who are unable to reach these points in time. We ask that all riders who don’t meet the sector cut off timing, retire gracefully


Sounds to me like their 'rolling road closures" are going to be every bit of a nuisance to the participants as they will be to locals and other tourists. What on earth is it these days that road cyclists are viewed as too timid to share the road with other vehicles?? Most roadies have for the past 15-20 years been too scared to take their ultra-toys on a bit of gravel road; now they can't possibly travel out in the real traffic??

The mind boggles! I blame it on the parental paranoia that has been ever-increasing since the introduction of MHL :| :x


nice attempt at topic derailing. I should put you in touch with some too timid riders and we'll see you back up your trash talk with abilities on gravel.

As for road closures, I don't think I've ever experienced it except for the final few hundred metres of a race where the traffic was stopped briefly. Otherwise we still had traffic during the race. Everyone else I know rides in very heavy, high speed traffic, every day.

Anyhow, let me know when you want to do that challenge and we will get some timid riders and you can demonstrate your superiority over them.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby Mike Ayling » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:21 am

Now for something completely different - does anyone here know someone who knows someone at BV who can find out how many entries they have so far?

Now back to Ip's ability to ride on gravel which given some of the places that he tours in would be very good!

Mike

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