Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

dalai47
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby dalai47 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:39 pm

Mike Ayling wrote:Now back to Ip's ability to ride on gravel which given some of the places that he tours in would be very good!

Mike


The point is that IP isn't your typical rider... I think he sometimes forgets others haven't been riding bikes for decades and aren't therefore as skilled as he is.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:10 pm

dalai47 wrote:
Mike Ayling wrote:Now back to Ip's ability to ride on gravel which given some of the places that he tours in would be very good!

Mike


The point is that IP isn't your typical rider... I think he sometimes forgets others haven't been riding bikes for decades and aren't therefore as skilled as he is.


I thought he was taking the p%^#s....until

il padrone wrote:Good warning signs should be plenty good-enough to keep the few drivers on their toes.


???

So one of the greatest advocates for dutch style separated cycle infrastructure on this forum reckons signs will be enough when the option of rolling closures....separated infrastructure beyond anyone's wildest dreams....is there?

I hope I'm misunderstanding this......

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:11 pm

kb wrote:I think confidence on roads comes from time on roads. Commutes helps a lot if you come from further out and are used to 60/70kph roads. if you're mostly used to inner city riding it can be a little intimidating.


^^^ Yep.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:51 pm

dalai47 wrote:
Mike Ayling wrote:Now back to Ip's ability to ride on gravel which given some of the places that he tours in would be very good!

Mike


The point is that IP isn't your typical rider... I think he sometimes forgets others haven't been riding bikes for decades and aren't therefore as skilled as he is.

This sort of gravel requires high skill levels ?? :shock: I sorta beg to differ.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:57 pm

g-boaf wrote:Anyhow, let me know when you want to do that challenge and we will get some timid riders and you can demonstrate your superiority over them.

Mate, think whatever you like about me. I am not into some stupid 'superiority' game, with you or any new riders :roll: I have spent lots of time with newcomers to cycling, over many years..... mostly on regular roads, and gravel roads are also perfectly fine for this in most cases (gravel is not 'off-road' BTW).

I was out riding with a fairly inexperienced lady this weekend gone, who has ridden gravel a bit but is still getting used to loaded touring, and she thoroughly enjoyed to excellent surface of the South Gippsland Trail, on 35mm tyres though.



fat and old wrote:I thought he was taking the p%^#s....until

il padrone wrote:Good warning signs should be plenty good-enough to keep the few drivers on their toes.


???

So one of the greatest advocates for dutch style separated cycle infrastructure on this forum reckons signs will be enough when the option of rolling closures....separated infrastructure beyond anyone's wildest dreams....is there?

I hope I'm misunderstanding this......


If you really think separated lanes are necessary out on the Healesville-Kooweerup Rd, you're misguided. On a Sunday arvo you'll probably find it a bit busy, maybe 4-5 cars per minute. Beenak Rd would probably see 2 cars per minute at the worst.

Yes. In many areas of this route, I do think that signage and marshals should be pretty acceptable. On the Mountain Hwy, at maybe 9am-10am on a Sunday when they'll probably be going up it (no details of times given on their site), there will still be fairly light traffic overall. Yes, if they close that section it may get some local bogans off the road.

Dutch-style separated facilities are best suited to higher density, urban streets and main roads. Few of the roads on this event route go within a bull's roar of meeting those criteria.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby dalai47 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:19 pm

il padrone wrote:This sort of gravel requires high skill levels ?? :shock: I sorta beg to differ.

Image


I am not going to search through posts to find them, but you have posted photos of some pretty gnarly tracks.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:34 pm

Of course I have. But we have been talking about riding road bikes on gravel roads, including the Warburton Trail, which the above is a photo of.

Different beasties, bush tracks and gravel roads. Like comparing Beach Road riding with the Hume Freeway :|

BTW. The roads where I first began my cycling as a complete newbie (and a bit behind the odds for my era).
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:43 am

il padrone wrote:If you really think separated lanes are necessary out on the Healesville-Kooweerup Rd, you're misguided.


And if you think that's what I'm advocating, you're not as smart as I thought :wink:

Come on IP....you know that isn't what I was getting at. If safer infrastructure is acceptable for

higher density, urban streets and main roads


why aren't rolling closures acceptable for this type of event? Surely safety of the cyclists is of paramount importance? Remember your risk matrix.....the #1 solution is to eliminate the hazard. Rolling closures tick all the boxes.

Please don't tell me that "sporting" cyclists deserve less than others.........

BTW, I'll see your Horsham roads, and give you Tarnagulla-Eddington, where I grew up riding as a kid....

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-36.856 ... 328!8i1664 :)

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby outnabike » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:42 am

What is interesting is the starting point of Wandin. There is a huge 4x4 show there every year, and the roads a chockers the whole day. It's a good day out for us bogan forby owners.... :) . But interestingly no one ever complains about the effect of the event.
Ok there are no road closures, but every thing you need in the way of food and drink is available at the show, at greatly inflated prices.
So I wouldn't think that the local shops would be much advantaged. Yet no complaints are in the local papers and its getting a bigger and bigger event.

I would have thought a bicycle event would be applauded as another event to put the area on the map. There will be support groups for miles as well and the population will be spread over all the small shopping zones. I would think the shops would do well.

I see the same attitude with a rello at Thornton near Healsville when The RACV puts on the mountain ride event. The locals are the worst and most vocally opposed. Hard to figure for a once a year event.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:40 am

fat and old wrote:
il padrone wrote:If you really think separated lanes are necessary out on the Healesville-Kooweerup Rd, you're misguided.


And if you think that's what I'm advocating, you're not as smart as I thought :wink:

Come on IP....you know that isn't what I was getting at. If safer infrastructure is acceptable for

higher density, urban streets and main roads


why aren't rolling closures acceptable for this type of event? Surely safety of the cyclists is of paramount importance? Remember your risk matrix.....the #1 solution is to eliminate the hazard. Rolling closures tick all the boxes.

Please don't tell me that "sporting" cyclists deserve less than others.........

I see road closures as justified on the basis of either local traffic hazards ( I do not regard a normal country road as hazardous), or the large numbers attending an event. Now I do not know what sort of numbers BN is expecting. Will it be 500, or 5,000?

The club I have been a member of for the past 25 years has a long-run event that has had attendance numbers ranging from 500-1200. We have never been given, nor asked for, a road closure. Generally road closures (even rolling along) are a nuisance for the locals and those travelling through, and involve a lot of added man-hours to set-up/take-down. If the roads are fairly safe, and the numbers not huge, better to avoid this if you can. That's just my way of thinking. I am not trying to disadvantage sporting cyclists, it's just that I do not see the need for such closures - maybe on a few limited roads, and only if the BN event is expecting 2000+ riders. The GVBR has had over 8,000 riders, and very few road closures have been applied.

Definitely not the same as separated lanes in the city.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:07 pm

il padrone wrote:I see road closures as justified on the basis of either local traffic hazards ( I do not regard a normal country road as hazardous)


Yes, I agree. The hazards are the cars. Which rolling closures will eliminate. :D

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:24 pm

Not a hazard at all. The real hazards are areas with heavy traffic volumes, higher traffic speeds (real speeds, not speed limits), and area with excessively limited views ahead - meaning dangerous intersections and such, not just a winding road. People can drive at an appropriate speed on winding roads (they do slow down) but on intersections with no clear view drivers often take great risks.

Most of the roads out in the Dandies on much of this route will have quite low traffic levels. Only the Mountain Highway, the Tourist Road, and the roads into/out of Monbulk will have real traffic issues. Signs, a bit of Police presence, marshals, should all see things proceed nicely.

Look, if they get Vicroads to close the roads, good luck to them. As I've stated, unless they have >1000 riders, for most of the route I really don't regard it as necessary. They are talking about staged starts, so they will not have a mass on the roads at one time. Their start seems to be Clegg Road rather than the Warburton Trail (all that rugged gravel and stuff - need MTB :P), but the good thing is Clegg will be early, as it is not a nice road in busier times.

Whatever! :|
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:47 pm

Ok, have it your way :D I can work with this.....


il padrone wrote:Not a hazard at all. The real hazards are areas with heavy traffic volumes, higher traffic speeds (real speeds, not speed limits), and area with excessively limited views ahead - meaning dangerous intersections and such, not just a winding road. People can drive at an appropriate speed on winding roads (they do slow down) but on intersections with no clear view drivers often take great risks.



All of which require

CARS

which rolling closures will eliminate :D

No more hazards :D :D

whatever :|


indeed :P

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby danny the boy » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:36 pm

outnabike wrote:What is interesting is the starting point of Wandin. There is a huge 4x4 show there every year, and the roads a chockers the whole day. It's a good day out for us bogan forby owners.... :) . But interestingly no one ever complains about the effect of the event.
Ok there are no road closures, but every thing you need in the way of food and drink is available at the show, at greatly inflated prices.
So I wouldn't think that the local shops would be much advantaged. Yet no complaints are in the local papers and its getting a bigger and bigger event.

I would have thought a bicycle event would be applauded as another event to put the area on the map. There will be support groups for miles as well and the population will be spread over all the small shopping zones. I would think the shops would do well.

I see the same attitude with a rello at Thornton near Healsville when The RACV puts on the mountain ride event. The locals are the worst and most vocally opposed. Hard to figure for a once a year event.


Wandin Park is some distance from the town and from being involved in sporting clubs there years ago I do recall the clubs having food and drink stalls out there with the profits going back to the sporting clubs. Football season will be started by the time this event is on and due to the time that the youngest teams start on a Sunday this will be a problem especially around Monbulk. As far as local shops making money from this event, there will be basically no spectators at any point, food and drinks stops are provided by BNV, nobody will be buying food from shops along the route. If the event was actually starting/finishing in a town rather than out on a farm there is a possibility that some may go to a cafe after but I predict that there will be food vendors at the start/finish area, there is on most rec rides I've done. This event could have been run out towards Gruyere, Hoddles Creek, Gembrook on near empty roads and nobody would of cared. I notice they are trying to entice entries from interstate yet there is minimal accomodation near the start/finish area other than B&B's. Im not against this event and I think it would be great if this was a test run for holding a Sun tour stage in the Dandenongs, but the selection of the route and the impact on the people living there leaves a lot to be desired.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby fat and old » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:42 pm

Wow....the herald has taken a dim view of this in today's paper. And the comments were what you expect...except this

.anyway I've seen plenty of puffing red faced riders ignoring the warnings, and riding in the hills on fire ban days and extreme danger days


Aye? :lol: The puffy red faces are a fire danger???

That's some sad shizzle, right there

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby BJL » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:57 pm

fat and old wrote:Wow....the herald has taken a dim view of this in today's paper. And the comments were what you expect...except this

.anyway I've seen plenty of puffing red faced riders ignoring the warnings, and riding in the hills on fire ban days and extreme danger days


Aye? :lol: The puffy red faces are a fire danger???

That's some sad shizzle, right there


Puffy red faces. That must have been some sight! Guess you had to be there. :wink:

But talking about fires, a recent fire alert along the 1 in 20 that comes to mind was when a motor vehicle caught fire. And yes, it was on a hot day and it was lucky it didn't spread into the surrounding bush.

Someone remind me, what shouldn't be allowed in the Dandenongs on extreme fire warning days?

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:10 pm

Since when was cycling on days of Total Fire Ban an illegal thing ???? :roll: :?

Morons keep spouting shite!
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby kb » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:02 pm

il padrone wrote:Since when was cycling on days of Total Fire Ban an illegal thing ???? :roll: :?

Morons keep spouting shite!

Shouting spite. Nice spoonerism.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby trailgumby » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:05 pm

il padrone wrote:Since when was cycling on days of Total Fire Ban an illegal thing ???? :roll: :?

Morons keep spouting shite!

Happens in my area. Trails in National Parks are closed on Total Fire Ban days. :(

Roads are usually open, but have been closed on a few days due to really extreme conditions. Turns out to have been the correct decision, too.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:21 am

Not talking about MTB and forest trails...... roads. When there is NO actual fire happening, just a fire ban day. Normal roads are always still open - pretty basic for safe access (and evac if it kicks off) for residents and other travellers.
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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:30 am

biker jk wrote:
BenGr wrote:
So you say they can just get stuffed? Maybe next time an event is held there they'll put in a big effort to get it cancelled. If the councils perception of an event is that it has a net negative effect, then they won't approve the next one.

Don't be so short sighted.


Council should base it's decisions on facts not wild exaggerated claims and scaremongering. We had businesses in Surry Hills making similar exaggerated claims that the Bourke Street cycleway would destroy their businesses. Council consulted widely and ignored these small business owners claims that the world would end, and built the cycleway. Small businesses along the cycleway are thriving and property values have increased.

Colac/Otway council have withdrawn support for Amy's Grand Fondo as they have looked at the facts, enjoy the last one this year. Attitudes such as yours planted the seed of discontent. Maybe some of your less self centered forum members who have links to such organisations s Amy's Grand Fondo could get them to work with communities instead of trying to bully them.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby Tim » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:05 am

Sounds like an angry anti-cycling event local.
Care to enlighten us on the facts

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:30 am

Tim wrote:Sounds like an angry anti-cycling event local.
Care to enlighten us on the facts

Not anti cycle, anti closing roads. People get stuck on there properties for the day and business is really down, some businesses are down by quite a bit and potentially this years will be the last grand fondo in the area. Check out the Otway Community facebook page, there are a number of threads there with members of council giving updates with and links to news. The grand Fondo gives nothing to the area, whereas the great Victorian bikeride is every 4 or so years and everyone is happy to see them as they generate business and close the road for a half day. The great ocean road marathon donates tens of thousands of dollars to both Lorne and Apollo Bay hostpitals, Amy's Grand Fondo donates zilch and stops tourist traffic, all take and no give, people eventually get sick of it.

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby Arbuckle23 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:41 am

I'm sure the local accommodation owners would not be on side with this. They make a lot of money in what is considered to be their off .
And surely with all the evening/night activities the food sellers in Lorne would be making good money as well?

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Re: Road closures in rural areas for bike rides

Postby otway » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:21 pm

There are no quiet times on the Ocean Road these days, just days that aren't as busy.With international tourist making their way down here the bike ride gets in the way, it stops the hundreds of various size tourist buses stopping for lunch and a constant flow tourist driving themselves staying the night, we are talking thousands of people a day. Thanks for not buying Australian when you were asked too, someone had to get an advantage from it and it is us down here :D All jokes aside, when this fondo is on the streets are empty, some shops just close up, some can't, no one stops a Kennet or Wye rivers but these people are stuck, they can't leave, both shops have to be open because they are newsagents, we get more tourists with the road opened, also it is just not one road it is the Skenes/Forrest/Deans Marsh Roads, it's just unfair and all we get is lip service from the organisers.

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