Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby beauyboy » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:00 am

While there are some thruths in this artical, I am still impressed that it is going as well as it is. I will try to find the griffith uni report if it is on the net.

Donald

www.brisbanetimes.com.au
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... -lhuw.html
Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'CONAL HANNA
December 29, 2009 - 10:09AM Comments 9

A $7 million CBD cycle centre, jointly funded by Brisbane City Council and the State Government, is badly located, too expensive and has suffered from poor marketing, a report has found.

Cycle2City, operating out of King George Square Cycle Centre, opened in June 2008 offering storage for 420 bikes, change rooms, showers, lockers and a bike repairs workshop.

At the time it was lauded as an Australian first, but a report on the centre's first year, conducted by Griffith University, has found that with just 200 members there were growing question marks over the demand for the facility.

"The only concern with this first year of the Cycle Centre's operation is its lesser than expected membership, and the relatively slow (but continuing) growth in numbers experienced," the report said.

"The lack of members raises questions about the rigour of the demand surveys undertaken in the project development phase."

The report praised the role of the centre, which is owned by council and the government and leased to operators Cycle2City, in shifting commuter behaviour but recommended changing the fee structure, decreasing long-term membership costs and offering free or low-cost day-use bicycle storage.

"Were the Cycle Centre able to attract more members at a lower user fee, the travel behaviour objectives for which it was built would be maximised," it said.

Director Andrew Onley, who is yet to see a copy of the report, said the study had been conducted too early in City2Cycle's life to be beneficial.

"It was supposed to coincide with a year, that's true, but in reality, because we started in the winter of the year before, we only really cranked over in December (2008)," Mr Onley said.

"Something brand new, like this cycle centre, that had never been done before, to come in and do a full assessment realistically, six months after it's been cranked open, I think was too early.

"It takes a while for people to adjust to a whole new concept."

Mr Onley said the centre was "well over half full now" but could not provide specific membership figures.

He said costs had already been revised for long-term members, with six-month members now paying $4 a day instead of $5.

The facility now costs $5 a day for monthly users or $8 for casual users.

The report singled out the centre's marketing for particular criticism, saying it "was not a strength of the management team".

"Marketing to prospective members is not advanced and could be refocused," the report said.

Mr Onley admitted that he and business partner John Hack had learned a lot about the time taken to change people's habits.

"We never had a big marketing budget," he said.

"We thought it would be full straight away because everyone thinks it's a great idea. And people do.

"But just people making that change, to actually get out of your public transport or your car does still take a certain commitment.

"Getting from `Yes, it's a good idea' to `Yes, I'm going to join' is still a step, which we probably underestimated a little bit."

Mr Onley also agreed with the report's finding that the centre could be better located.

More than one third of Cycle Centre users walk more than 800m to reach their workplace, with a number forced to catch further public transport after riding to the city.

"The Cycle Centre isn't necessarily in an ideal location, distant from key employment precincts within the CBD and without significant street-front presence," the report said.

Mr Onley agreed, saying: "There's no doubt the key business precinct at the moment is down on Riverside. And that is outside the desirable walking distance (from the Cycle Centre).

"It's fine in winter but in summer it's a little bit further than we'd like. Ideally the next centre, it would be great to have one down in that precinct, for sure."

The report found that the Cycle Centre had eased the burden on public transport, with 73 per cent of its users previously on trains, buses or ferries.

Only seven per cent of users had previously driven to the city.

Acting Lord Mayor Jane Prentice said the Centre approximately freed up 76 bus seats, 54 train places and 16 more spots on CityCats.

"The Cycle Centre has therefore freed up two buses, half a CityTrain carriage and the front bow of a CityCat ferry every morning and afternoon peak hour," Cr Prentice said.

"These are small but significant contributions to tackling peak hour congestion in the city."

BCC contributed $3 million to the $7 million Cycle Centre, which was built in partnership with the State Government as part of the Inner Northern Busway.

Mr Onley said he was expecting to see a rush in new memberships as people sought to get fit in January.

BCC give us some more bikeways fore safe travel!!!!
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by BNA » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:38 am

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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Zynster » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:38 am

Yep, I don't use it for the same 2 reasons identified. Too expensive, and too far away from the bottom end of town. Plus my boss is happy for me to park in the office. :)
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Max » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:33 am

On those occasions that I need to go into town, I use the C2C centre. An $8 casual day rate suits me just fine, especially in light of the fact that it gives me a shower, secure bike storage, and somewhere to stash my biking clothes while I'm in town. I understand long-term memberships are cheaper than this ($4 or $5 a day effective rate). I usually end up going near Eagle St for my city visits. I don't see it as too far to walk, but that may be a reflection of my own preferences - I'd rather walk a couple Km from the centre than get in a cab, bus or train. Also, I would rather not have to ride in the CBD - eg to get to a C2C centre closer to the Eagle St area. There's just too many whackos on the road at that time of morning. So a facility somewhat on the edge of the CBD is better for me. I can see, however, how long-term users of the centre might prefer somewhere closer to their workplace.

One observation I agree with is that the centre really hasn't been properly marketed. I've never seen an advert for it in Australian Cyclist, BA or Ride. I'd think these would be perfect target audiences for the centre. Online advertising in BNA or roadgrime or similar forums would go a long way too. At the risk of sounding like an evangelist, I really do think this centre is the ducks nuts in terms of the facilities it provides, and the people there are very nice. I recommend it to anyone who'll listen, as I think the more people know about it, the more will use it.

I'd also like to see the report in its entirety. If anyone finds it, could they post a link here please?

Max
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby jaffaman » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:34 pm

You need to go further than 4 zones on public transport to pay more than $8 a day, and 4 zones gets you to wynnum, sandgate, albany creek, ferny grove, brookfield, wacol, sunnybank hills etc, and anyone coming from closer in is paying considerably less than that. Certainly there is no economic incentive to cycle in.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Wazza » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:12 am

I went down there on Thursday to get some lube due to the wet ride that morning, what a nice guy is Troy. Very helpful, seems knowledgable and he does all repairs and builds wheels. I have talked to people in the 2 bike shops in Albert St and haven't been inspired however Troy provides that confidence and as I work cnr George & Adelaide he is likely to become my LBS. I don't use the C2C facilities as such because work has bike parking and showers provided however I agree with Max, for a casual arrangement it would seem to be all good :)
Andrew,
That issue I had last Sunday turns out I had a bent hanger :shock: , Troy found it and the ride home in the arvo was smooth shifting all the way :wink:

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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby beauyboy » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:58 am

Acturlly as of today with PT fare increases the cycle center is more attractive then ever.
see http://www.translink.com.au/fares2010.php
The price one I was a little worried about when it oened but now with the PT Fare increase (no anna i will not forgive you) and the 6 monthly membership dropping from what it was, the cycle center is better then it was.
There are certain buildings(the white building near the cycle center) that have pulled cycle parking out of there basements as well.
Donald
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby lapsiek » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:31 pm

I would love to use the facility. But .. I simply cant justify the cost.
The shower facility would be great but for $8 / day , .. Tell em hes dreamin!

I already have permanent carpark opposite Central Station and alternate commute between car for convenience and bike for pleasure/health .. At the moment I just pit stop at a gym in Teneriffe and idle in from there. Not as convenient as King George location , but a hell of a lot cheaper.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby beauyboy » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:08 am

There seams to be a little confusion of the cost of using the facility so here is the link.
I should of posted this originally but better late then never.
http://www.cycle2city.com.au/site.php?content=home

Donald
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby aaron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:15 am

Wonder how this is going now?
Biggest mistake they ever made was to get rid of Troy the mechanic.
He gave the centre some credibility.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Kenzo » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:48 am

aaron wrote:Troy the mechanic.

Well, you'll find him nowadays at River City Cycles (unless he gets run over by a UTE again... then you have to wait for the next day for him to come in).
Troy was the only reason I ever found for going to the Cycle Centre.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby aaron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:50 am

No I know where and how Troy is. I was talking about the Cycle2City centre.

Did you get Troy emails when he cycled around UsA?
Insane stuff
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Oxford » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:53 pm

The loss of Troy was huge IMO, especially because I recommended him to the Cycle Centre, I was a little insulted when his services were terminated, but I'm only a user.

As for comments about costs. Its more than just the immediate cost, yeah sure for me at a 6 month membership I pay roughly $4 a day, less than half a bus fare from Albany Creek using a Go-Card, but what do I get for that. Fresh clean facilities that are secured, fresh clean towel, locker, shaving facilities, ironing facilities, discounted laundry/dry cleaning service (and your laundry is placed in your locker for you), pleasant staff, the list goes on. So after that, I also get roughly 90 minutes of free exercise each day I ride, so no gym required, how much is a gym membership? Saved money there. What about the time needed to go to the gym, saved time there as well, more time with the family. As for location, doesn't matter where it is some one will whinge about its location so not even going to address a non event argument (easy for me to say I work across the square from the Centre).

If it didn't exist I wouldn't have the job I have now which I really enjoy, because the firm did not have EOT facilities. I probably would have taken the other job offered to me which did have EOT and paid more, but was a company I didn't have much respect for in the industry.

C2C is brilliant IMO. I am their number 1 fan and also their number 1 member, I was first to sign up when they opened and unless I get EOT facilities at my workplace will continue to use them until I cease working in the CBD.
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Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Max » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:17 pm

Oxford wrote:The loss of Troy was huge IMO, especially because I recommended him to the Cycle Centre, I was a little insulted when his services were terminated, but I'm only a user.


I talked to the manager the other day. If you take her comments at face value (I acknowledge there's always two sides to the story), they just weren't making enough from the mechanic part of their offering. They've been on a big cost reduction exercise.

I think their service is excellent. I hope they become profitable soon. I think they provide an invaluable service to CBD workers. In all honesty, the cycle centre's existence has actually encouraged me to look for work in the CBD!

Max
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby aaron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:37 pm

I did use the centre for a while and I felt it definitely worth the cost/day.
I especially like the old cowboy janitor (Jim?)

Troy was fired because he didn't turn over his service fast enough. They wanted a mechanic who get do the job quicker and get more bikes through.
Absolute idiocy in my opinion. Troy was quality and did the best job he could on bikes.
As a risk management exercise I think a quality job is pretty important rather than a rushed one.
Last edited by aaron on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby silkishuge » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:42 pm

For me, if I have to pay to ride to work, the commute becomes less sustainable and I would have to stop riding and start running to work instead. Of course it would depend on distance as well. My ride takes me 54mins on average and my run takes me 1hr 10 mins on average so I lose about 30mins a day of travel time. Run and ride route are obviously different.
$4 to$5 is just too much to pay.

Jon
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby aaron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:45 pm

silkishuge wrote:For me, if I have to pay to ride to work, the commute becomes less sustainable and I would have to stop riding and start running to work instead. Of course it would depend on distance as well. My ride takes me 54mins on average and my run takes me 1hr 10 mins on average so I lose about 30mins a day of travel time. Run and ride route are obviously different.
$4 to$5 is just too much to pay.

Jon


I'm sorry Jon but I don't understand your post at all.
Please explain
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Oxford » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:59 pm

silkishuge wrote:For me, if I have to pay to ride to work, the commute becomes less sustainable and I would have to stop riding and start running to work instead. Of course it would depend on distance as well. My ride takes me 54mins on average and my run takes me 1hr 10 mins on average so I lose about 30mins a day of travel time. Run and ride route are obviously different.
$4 to$5 is just too much to pay.

Jon
yet people will happily pay that much for an overpriced coffee from a barista, go figure.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby silkishuge » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:02 pm

aaron wrote:
silkishuge wrote:For me, if I have to pay to ride to work, the commute becomes less sustainable and I would have to stop riding and start running to work instead. Of course it would depend on distance as well. My ride takes me 54mins on average and my run takes me 1hr 10 mins on average so I lose about 30mins a day of travel time. Run and ride route are obviously different.
$4 to$5 is just too much to pay.

Jon


I'm sorry Jon but I don't understand your post at all.
Please explain


To pay $4 to $5 a day to park a bike and shower for work would be too much for us to afford at the moment. That adds up to about $100 a month and ~$1,200 a year, which is about the yearly allocation I have to spend on bike gear like chains, cassettes. cycle wear.
I run to work if I can't ride for some reason. Its about 14km and 28km a day but it is also free.

I have not had coffee except for instant in the last year. Coffee is just getting too expensive as well. We have even resorted to growing our own fruits and vegetables and we only really have to spend on vegetables and fruit in winter when everything really slows down.

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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Oxford » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:32 pm

do you run barefoot and naked? :wink:

I don't drink coffee at all, never even tasted it cannot stand the smell of it, so I am with you there.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby silkishuge » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:45 pm

Oxford wrote:do you run barefoot and naked? :wink:

I don't drink coffee at all, never even tasted it cannot stand the smell of it, so I am with you there.


funny. No I do not run naked or bear footed........ but I did have a Brazilian colleague who runs barefooted. This year we have been a bit tight on finances due to unforeseen medical expenses and unforeseen dependents. Well, at least the medication is working. There might even be a R5 for sale when the warranty replacement process is complete.

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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby aaron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:45 pm

Do you understand why he asked about whether you run naked etc?
It's because the cost of the cycle centre is not about putting your bike somewhere.
It's about having a secure locker, showers, ironing boards, hair dryers, laundry services as well as having a safe place to park you bike.

If you run to work don't you shower once you get to work?
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby silkishuge » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:55 pm

aaron wrote:Do you understand why he asked about whether you run naked etc?
It's because the cost of the cycle centre is not about putting your bike somewhere.
It's about having a secure locker, showers, ironing boards, hair dryers, laundry services as well as having a safe place to park you bike.

If you run to work don't you shower once you get to work?


shower at work so not an issue for me. Perhaps many offices also have shower facilities.

Jon
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Cervelo R5
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby aaron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:56 pm

You don't need the cycle centre then.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Dai » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:09 pm

silkishuge wrote:For me, if I have to pay to ride to work, the commute becomes less sustainable and I would have to stop riding and start running to work instead. Of course it would depend on distance as well. My ride takes me 54mins on average and my run takes me 1hr 10 mins on average so I lose about 30mins a day of travel time. Run and ride route are obviously different.
$4 to$5 is just too much to pay.

Jon


I suspect you're in the minority there with running being a viable alternative to riding. I think the point of Cycle 2 City is to provide a viable alternative to public transport / car commuting and I think they do a pretty good job of it.

For me it makes sense for the following reasons:
1. The yearly membership is cheaper than an annual train or bus ticket and way cheaper than car parking.
2. The standard and cleanliness off the facilities far exceeds those available at my office where we have 1 shower and 6 lockers shared between ~20 cyclists and have to find space at our desks / in corridors to park the bikes
3. Ancillary services are cheaply and conveniently available. They have a service to wash and iron 5 shirts and return them to your locker for $7 per week.

For around $4 per day I get secure and safe parking for my bike, a nice, clean shower with an attendant, a clean towel, somewhere to store all my clothes and I can choose to pay a little extra and not have to worry about washing and ironing shirts on a weekend.

Based on the anecdotal increase in members I've seen there over the last few months (I've been a member for ~ a year) I'd say it's making sense to a lot more people. From my discussions with the management it seems like they are reaching or have reached a sustainable level of membership.

Even with the newer green star buildings including cycling facilities being built, I think you will find there are plenty of buildings that do not have adequate end of trip facilities, so there should be a market for their services for some time to come. I think even then they will still be able to find a niche clientele, due to the high standard of service they are offering.
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Re: Cycle centre 'badly located, too expensive'

Postby Dai » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:19 pm

Max wrote:
Oxford wrote:The loss of Troy was huge IMO, especially because I recommended him to the Cycle Centre, I was a little insulted when his services were terminated, but I'm only a user.


I talked to the manager the other day. If you take her comments at face value (I acknowledge there's always two sides to the story), they just weren't making enough from the mechanic part of their offering. They've been on a big cost reduction exercise.
Max


That's a shame, I didn't realise Troy used to work there. I've had work done on my bikes at Cycle 2 City (various mechanics over time) and none of them are a patch on Troy. I'm fortunate that I live close-ish to River City Cycles. Whilst they are certainly not the cheapest, the job that Troy and Craig (and the other guys there) do really is first class and worth every cent that they charge.
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