Police request for Brisbane riders

Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby ZepinAtor » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:50 pm

I've copied this letter from a Brisbane cycling club HRRW in relation to cycling on roads around the Dayboro/ Samford/ Mt Mee areas.

The request sounds reasonable, but on any weekend you might see 200 + riders in a 3 hr period in groups up to 40. The roads are narrow at the best of times with only 100-200mm of tarmac inside the white line & to make matters worse it's a 100km/hr zone with the distinct sound of banjos echoing from the hills.


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by BNA » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:18 am

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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby teds01 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:18 am

Thanks for the post. The request sounds reasonable, although at times it can be difficult to move to single file when in a large group. I'd have no problem reporting drivers who drive inappropriately or dangerous when I'm on my bike or in my car for that matter too.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby trailgumby » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:04 pm

Sounds like an invitation to start sharing some of your on-the-bike videos of moron motorists with them. :lol:

I wonder if the "ATTENTION MOTORISTS" letter starts with complaints about drivers passing dangerously close, using their vehicles to intimidate cyclists, crossing double lines into oncoming traffic while passing and the like?
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Aushiker » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:30 pm

Hi

I think the letter sounds reasonable as long as a similar or better still stronger written one is passed on to motorists in the area; particularly given the likelihood of motorists causing injury or death is far greater than what the cyclists would do/can do back.

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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby jet-ski » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:34 pm

I don't understand how riding single file helps? if the bunch is all together it is easier to overtake.
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Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Comedian » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:49 pm

I think it's reasonable. How about a bike lane though :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Oxford » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:56 pm

I want to know how they are going to educate the motor vehicle drivers.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby damhooligan » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:01 pm

Aushiker wrote:Hi

I think the letter sounds reasonable as long as a similar or better still stronger written one is passed on to motorists in the area; particularly given the likelihood of motorists causing injury or death is far greater than what the cyclists would do/can do back.Regards
Andrew


But that is according to the letter only in some cases the responsibility of the motorist... :|
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Comedian » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:49 pm

Oxford wrote:I want to know how they are going to educate the motor vehicle drivers.

As someone who has been on the other side (one of the guys in the cars driving up there) everyone with a licence should know that you should only drive to your vision. People choose not to. That's the crux of the problem.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby master6 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:34 am

There are length limits on vehicles. Perhaps there should be a limit to the number of cyclists in a bunch. ?
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby damhooligan » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:57 am

master6 wrote:There are length limits on vehicles. Perhaps there should be a limit to the number of cyclists in a bunch. ?


I absolutely agree.

But the size of the car is created in the factory, this can very easily be controlled.
Group sizes are very often made up spontaniously on the day, very hard to control.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:58 am

master6 wrote:There are length limits on vehicles. Perhaps there should be a limit to the number of cyclists in a bunch. ?


That's a good point as there's one particular training group that have anywhere from 50 to 100 riders head out over the Samford Range towards Eatons Crossing & Winn Road. They actually stick together which is a sight to be seen with half the group riding pink Pinarelos. It's tough for me to pass them & you have to put the pedal to the metal so as not to be left outside in no mans land. Motorists line up behind trying to pass for several km's & even though they are a very professional group & pull up to ease congestion it's still very disappointing to see this happening so close to home.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby master6 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:31 am

damhooligan wrote:
master6 wrote:There are length limits on vehicles. Perhaps there should be a limit to the number of cyclists in a bunch. ?


I absolutely agree.

But the size of the car is created in the factory, this can very easily be controlled.
Group sizes are very often made up spontaniously on the day, very hard to control.


I agree that policing such a road rule might be difficult. Why not have a maximum limit, say 20, and if that number is exceeded, fine everyone in the bunch.

(If 35 people turn up for a ride, get organised into two bunches 10 minutes apart.)
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Oxford » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:34 am

maybe they should also limit the number of cars that can be in a line at a time as well, more than 20 and they all get fined. would help to eliminate peak hour traffic congestion that slows me down when I am cycling to/from work. :roll:
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby master6 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:40 am

Oxford wrote:maybe they should also limit the number of cars that can be in a line at a time as well, more than 20 and they all get fined. would help to eliminate peak hour traffic congestion that slows me down when I am cycling to/from work. :roll:
Police already have avenues for dealing with vehicles that travel too close together.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby jet-ski » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:10 pm

:roll:
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Oxford » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:28 pm

master6 wrote:
Oxford wrote:maybe they should also limit the number of cars that can be in a line at a time as well, more than 20 and they all get fined. would help to eliminate peak hour traffic congestion that slows me down when I am cycling to/from work. :roll:
Police already have avenues for dealing with vehicles that travel too close together.
that one went through to the keeper, so I'll spell it out for you.

Cyclists riding in a group are doing nothing illegal and they may in fact have nothing to do with each other, except that they are coincidentally riding in the same direction at a point in time. They maybe possibly inconveniencing impatient motorists who find it hard to pass them, but that is it. There is nothing illegal about the activity. So if we are to limit the size of the cycling group so that it does not inconvenience the motorist, then I am proposing that we also limit the size of groups of motorists travelling along together in the same direction at the same time (peak hour as an example), possibly also heading in the same direction because as a cyclist I find it inconvenient when they cause traffic jams, it slows me down having to negotiate my way through them legally when I could be riding faster. Is that clear enough?
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby master6 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:52 pm

Sorry Oxford, I have been busy on other matters, however I did find time to send this email to Police Officer Robinson at Dayboro:-

"I am a fairly active cyclist (). Best of luck with your appeal to cyclists for more consideration toward motorists. You may not know that when we get into our cycling gear, and throw a leg over our pride and joy, lots of us get into a "Lance Fantasy" mode, and think that the roads should be closed to other traffic while we parade by with egos on full power.
Motor vehicles are subject to length limits, however cyclists can group together to form a mobile road block of unrestricted length. In my view, road rules should limit a group of cyclists to a maximum number, perhaps 10 or 20, with provision to fine all of them if a bunch exceeds a prescribed number. I think they would soon learn to break into smaller groups and set out at 5 or 10 minute intervals."

Who knows, he might be able to initiate action toward a law change somewhere down the track.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby void » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:57 pm

Oxford wrote:
master6 wrote:
Oxford wrote:maybe they should also limit the number of cars that can be in a line at a time as well, more than 20 and they all get fined. would help to eliminate peak hour traffic congestion that slows me down when I am cycling to/from work. :roll:
Police already have avenues for dealing with vehicles that travel too close together.
that one went through to the keeper, so I'll spell it out for you.

Cyclists riding in a group are doing nothing illegal and they may in fact have nothing to do with each other, except that they are coincidentally riding in the same direction at a point in time. They maybe possibly inconveniencing impatient motorists who find it hard to pass them, but that is it. There is nothing illegal about the activity. So if we are to limit the size of the cycling group so that it does not inconvenience the motorist, then I am proposing that we also limit the size of groups of motorists travelling along together in the same direction at the same time (peak hour as an example), possibly also heading in the same direction because as a cyclist I find it inconvenient when they cause traffic jams, it slows me down having to negotiate my way through them legally when I could be riding faster. Is that clear enough?


Ever tried to get past an Army Convoy on an open road.. max speed of 80Km/h in a 100km/h road, with each vehicle spaced out 100m apart.. should see some of the stupid decisions made by drivers then.

A bit of common sense by both parties would not go astray, 50 -100 riders in one group is just stupid. if this was an organised motoring event it would be illegal, however in the case for the group (as post by Zep) of cyclist it is legal, but very inconsiderate for other road users.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:08 pm

Oxford wrote:Cyclists riding in a group are doing nothing illegal and they may in fact have nothing to do with each other, except that they are coincidentally riding in the same direction at a point in time.


OK I'm going to name & shame here to clear this up OX. I was talking to a resident of Highvale this morning who obviously commutes & rides the range several times a day. MB training group from Milton (MB cycles) has been known to have 50 cars behind them for 5km at a time travelling at 30km/hr. My friend has told me it has taken him to the point where he travels back roads once at the top of the range to avoid the carnage at Samford village on many occasions.

Motorists of Samford/ Dayboro/ Clear Mountain/ Mt Nebo & Mount Glorious HATE us with a passion & I put it down to there being double the cars of 5 years ago & 10 times as many cyclists. There's been little change to the roads apart from 3 lanes up 3 sections of the range with the majority being one lane. Reducing the speed limit last year from 80km/hr to 70/km/hr has done nothing at all.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Oxford » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:38 pm

ZepinAtor wrote:
Oxford wrote:Cyclists riding in a group are doing nothing illegal and they may in fact have nothing to do with each other, except that they are coincidentally riding in the same direction at a point in time.


OK I'm going to name & shame here to clear this up OX. I was talking to a resident of Highvale this morning who obviously commutes & rides the range several times a day. MB training group from Milton (MB cycles) has been known to have 50 cars behind them for 5km at a time travelling at 30km/hr. My friend has told me it has taken him to the point where he travels back roads once at the top of the range to avoid the carnage at Samford village on many occasions.

Motorists of Samford/ Dayboro/ Clear Mountain/ Mt Nebo & Mount Glorious HATE us with a passion & I put it down to there being double the cars of 5 years ago & 10 times as many cyclists. There's been little change to the roads apart from 3 lanes up 3 sections of the range with the majority being one lane. Reducing the speed limit last year from 80km/hr to 70/km/hr has done nothing at all.

I figured it was MB Cycles, the pink gave it away and it is not just out that way that they cause a problem, its a problem elsewhere. And unfortunately when I have happened to be riding along in the same direction at the same time at the same place, I get labelled in amongst that group, but it is nothing to do with me. The Zupps group ride is another that has similar issues. So I would object to this arbitrary 20 rider thing (or any number) as it is full of holes and unless it is applied to other user groups it is discriminatory. Would these same residents have grounds to complain to the police if a long line of cars travelling along held them up, off course not.

For those watching at home I am playing part devils advocate and part serious, you have to work which though.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby master6 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:27 pm

Work Witch! :D
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby m@ » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:37 pm

master6 wrote:Sorry Oxford, I have been busy on other matters, however I did find time to send this email to Police Officer Robinson at Dayboro:-

"I am a fairly active cyclist (). Best of luck with your appeal to cyclists for more consideration toward motorists. You may not know that when we get into our cycling gear, and throw a leg over our pride and joy, lots of us get into a "Lance Fantasy" mode, and think that the roads should be closed to other traffic while we parade by with egos on full power.
Motor vehicles are subject to length limits, however cyclists can group together to form a mobile road block of unrestricted length. In my view, road rules should limit a group of cyclists to a maximum number, perhaps 10 or 20, with provision to fine all of them if a bunch exceeds a prescribed number. I think they would soon learn to break into smaller groups and set out at 5 or 10 minute intervals."

Who knows, he might be able to initiate action toward a law change somewhere down the track.

Unlikely - politicians create laws; Police just, well, police them. You'd make better headway by starting a petition and getting your mug on Today Tonight.

The idea makes sense in theory; in the real world it's another kettle of fish. Would you be happy to be fined because your group had accumulated a couple of uninvited hangers-on? At the end of the day it's common sense that groups should be kept to a reasonable size, but you can't legislate that.
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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby Drunkmonkey » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:44 pm

MB's have 3 different level/groups of riders - so should they be classed as 1 big group because they all have the same jersey on, or 3 separate groups? All 3 groups would not be riding in a big bunch at the same time.

I would hate to see a cyclist get fined just because they were overtaking the lifestyle MB group (or any other bunch ride), or riding too close to them and be considered to be part of their group - so we need to be careful about giving the police/motorists any fuel to use against groups of cyclists.

If we let the police limit the numbers in a group, we can expect that they will use the same guidelines/rules everywhere else in Queensland - as we cant pick and choose when and where such a rule should be enforced by the police.

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Re: Police request for Brisbane riders

Postby jet-ski » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:13 pm

PEOPLE!

you are asking drivers to go 5 minutes slower over 5km at 30kph as opposed to 70kph...

5 minutes!

why are you lobbying for some arbitrary rule about cyclist numbers for the sake of 5 minutes travel time for motorists who may get caught up behind a bunch?
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