Bike skill/road sense

Bike skill/road sense

Postby Ben85 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:08 pm

Since being off the bike for a few months and driving more, I've seen some of the stupidest things that cyclist/commuters do on our roads. No wonder we got such a bad name.

The juniors do alot of road safety courses, I think alot of olders riders need the same.

Make this thread some where to post the stupid things you see people do and maybe they will read and fix.

A few little things-

Running red lights, instead of track standing :lol:
Not looking behind when passing a parked car to make sure not going to get cleaned up.
Riding 2 abreast on unsealed country road in 80+ zone- crazy
not signalling at lights etc.
If you cant clip in and take of quick, dont sit at front of lights in turning lane. you hold up traffic flow
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by BNA » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:51 pm

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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby amt » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:51 pm

I take same of your points, might be guilty of some as well. However as another vehicle on the road isn't a rider permitted to use a right turn lane just as much as car? Asking because I'm not sure.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby Richard.L » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:34 pm

In the bicycle rules/law a cyclist is legally aloud to take up a whole lane.
But a cyclist can not over take a stationary veichle that is making a turn if you(the cyclist) are going to go staight.

I wouldnt even ride on a busy road with trucks even doing 50+... :?
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby alex » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:05 am

the most common thing i see is cyclists sneaking up to the front of the queue at traffic lights then struggling to get into their pedals while taking up a whole lane, holding up the traffic they just passed. the same people probably come on here and whinge that someone beeped them.

some of the holier than thou cycling crusaders really need a reality check. no wonder motorists hate us.
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby sogood » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:39 am

alex wrote:the most common thing i see is cyclists sneaking up to the front of the queue at traffic lights then struggling to get into their pedals while taking up a whole lane, holding up the traffic they just passed. the same people probably come on here and whinge that someone beeped them.

Filtering through held up vehicles is permitted under road rules for bikes, except around left turning vehicles. And there's a good reason why cyclists want and should be at the head of the queue, for visibility.

As for slow clipping in, well, they'll learn very quickly and is something we'll all need to accept. It's not too different to manual car drivers who stall or make kangaroo jumps when they were noobs.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby alex » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:41 am

i think you missed this important part

"then struggling to get into their pedals while taking up a whole lane, holding up the traffic they just passed"

again, we all know you are allowed to take up a whole lane and hold up traffic. but why fuel the fire?
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby sogood » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:45 am

alex wrote:i think you missed this important part
"then struggling to get into their pedals while taking up a whole lane, holding up the traffic they just passed"

No I did not. Struggling to clip into their pedal is one of those things that happens, even with the most experienced cyclist. Otherwise even cars may stall on moving off.

So I wouldn't be too critical about I am not aware of any rider who would want to deliberately fumble and hold up the traffic behind.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby alex » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:54 am

'the most experienced cyclist' would be getting out of the way and not fumbling about in the middle of the road oblivious to the chaos behind them.

the point is that most people dont realise its the one percenters like this that infuriate people to become like magda.
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby m@ » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:03 am

IME 'getting out of the way' isn't the best strategy for interacting with traffic from a safety perspective. Sometimes that will upset other road users if it momentarily inconveniences them, but I'm afraid my safety is more important than their convenience.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby alex » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:10 am

i dont really understand how wobbling all over the shop in the middle of an intersection is safe (or courteous) but each to their own

do you block the left hand lane when a car behind you wants to turn on the green arrow?
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby sogood » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:11 am

alex wrote:'the most experienced cyclist' would be getting out of the way and not fumbling about in the middle of the road oblivious to the chaos behind them.

the point is that most people dont realise its the one percenters like this that infuriate people to become like magda.

"Fumble" by default is not a deliberate act and no sane rider would deliberately fumble. And even with some fumbling, it's only 2-3 crank rotations before they are on their way. Traffic hold up is minimal if everyone just take a deep breath. Otherwise a 'slow clipping-in rider' making a sudden side way lane change is guaranteed to get collected by surging vehicles coming around the sides. In any case, the frequency of riders fumbling with their pedal at take-off is not too different to cars stalling or drivers not noticing the light change due to other in-car activities eg. SMS, reading map, falling asleep etc.

As pointed out earlier, cyclists are entitled to filter through stationary traffic and be at the head of the lane. Further, bike boxes similar to these US photos have now been adopted by Sydney's traffic agencies and will be starting to show up at street intersections near you.

Image

Image
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby m@ » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:18 am

alex wrote:i dont really understand how wobbling all over the shop in the middle of an intersection is safe (or courteous) but each to their own

do you block the left hand lane when a car behind you wants to turn on the green arrow?


:lol:

Let's remain objective shall we? No-one intentionally 'wobbles all over the shop in the middle of an intersection', and the hypothetical 'experienced cyclists' we're talking about are likely to clear the intersection completely before being caught by the other traffic - which is one of the main reasons for filtering to the head of the queue.

I'll try to make my point more clearly. Road craft is typically more about making sure you are in other road users' way (too make yourself visible) than getting out of the way, which tends to encourage unsafe passing. An example is filtering to the front of queued traffic at a red light - this is officially recognised as the appropriate place for bicycles, hence the bicycle holding boxes that are painted on many intersections. Another example is riding outside the door zone of parked cars, although this may mean other traffic is unable to pass. Again, safety is more important than other road users' perceived right-of-way. I don't see what left turn arrows have to do with it - there is no safety advantage in holding up traffic for no reason.

Edit - snap ;)
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby alex » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:21 am

'some men just cant be reached'

i mean basically all i am saying is have some common sense and courtesy and be aware of the traffic around you so that you dont hold people up... but this would not appear to be a reasonable suggestion around here.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby m@ » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:30 am

alex wrote:i mean basically all i am saying is have some common sense and courtesy and be aware of the traffic around you so that you dont hold people up...
I agree with you 100% there... but we obviously differ on what common sense and courtesy look like in practice. There's no reason we can't have a friendly discussion about those points we disagree on, though if you would prefer to agree to disagree that's also fine - and to be fair to the OP we are getting a bit sidetracked.

All I'm saying is this: when my safety conflicts with other people's convenience, I'm going to choose my safety every time. You're quite correct that I'm highly unlikely to be pursuaded that this is a bad idea or in the least unreasonable. When safety is not an issue, I'll gladly go out of my way avoid inconvenience to others (eg the example you gave of moving out of a left-turn lane to allow traffic with a turn light to progress).
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby alex » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:32 am

i agree with your post above in its entirety

a lot of people are just oblivious to what they are really doing on the roads and their blanket response is 'its for my safety'
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:33 am

So good, the title was road sense, not road law. Yes we are allowed to sit at the front of traffic, holding the intersection up while trying to get cleat in, frustrating drivers. But I would perfer to make it home in one piece and respect the bigger vehicle. In Adelaide, its not strange to have a bottle thrown at you or cars swerving at you if you upset drivers by holding them up.

The ais ladies team where knocked of thier bikes last week in Vic. by a angry driver. they caught him though.

I hear a cyclist being hit by a car nearly every morning on Adelaide radio. Its because we think we own the road, yes we have a share, but we are tiny and defensive. So think about it next ride.

Myself I never clip out at intersections, and i'm always gone. Some fellow riders cant track stand and end up holding up traffic, I can be 50m up the road and they still in intersection.

I would love to see the statistics of car/Cyclist crashes. I reckon 70% would be clumsy Cyclists.

Hope I haven't upset any1 again.

Cheers :lol:
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby sogood » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:36 am

alex wrote:'some men just cant be reached'

i mean basically all i am saying is have some common sense and courtesy and be aware of the traffic around you so that you dont hold people up... but this would not appear to be a reasonable suggestion around here.

You are focused on a tiny group of inconsiderate riders out there, a percentage similar to the proportion of inconsiderate drivers out there. Guess what, they both come out the same cohort of "inconsiderate" human beans. The fact of the matter is, cyclists go to the head of traffic queue for valid reasons and no sane cyclist would deliberately fumble and hold up traffic. Taking an appropriate lane is actually the correct procedure for bikes.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby sogood » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:40 am

Ben85 wrote:Myself I never clip out at intersections, and i'm always gone. Some fellow riders cant track stand and end up holding up traffic, I can be 50m up the road and they still in intersection.

How ironic, many a "road sense" thread talk about the inappropriateness of track standing at traffic lights!

So good, the title was road sense, not road law...

Without the law, there is no sense! :P
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby alex » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:42 am

sogood wrote:Without the law, there is no sense! :P


thats true but a piece of legislation isnt going to protect you when you are dead ;)
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby Verbs & Nouns » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:00 am

99% of the time I’ll trackstand at the lights. If I don’t, I’ll take off and clip in when I’m out of the way of cars. I do sit in front of cars at the lights, sometimes in the pedestrian crossing, usually not. I’d rather be seen than some car hook a left turn into me at the last minute. I don’t try and be the arrogant “fixie” dude, but I will over take you at the lights if you’re struggling to clip in. Over take me further up. I’m not going to slowly go along behind you while you coast forever, fumble around with your clips and change your fifteen gears.

When there’s a green left turning arrow, I’ll move to the right (or middle) lane to allow cars to turn left on the green light. Once again I’m usually in front of the cars at the lights. It takes about 2 seconds for me to move out of the way. There’s quite a few of these roads / sets of lights on my morning ride in (Port Road), so I’m used to it.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:11 am

Yes track standing in inappropriate, but it makes me feel safe and I know I aint gonna get some bogan throwing something at me for holding him up getting to the pub. Plus its entertainment for the people and kids in the car. :lol:

Clipping out when going straight at intersection is fine, cause you have a bike lane. But turning on a arrow, i wouldnt dream of it. Its fine to move to front of cars, but get out of the way quick. This will make cars/trucks happy and less road rage.

Another crazy rule is motorcyclist cant ride through traffic to front ,but cyclists are?

I started this thread to point out the dangerous things you see cyclist do and post them on here to help reduce people getting killed.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby Verbs & Nouns » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:27 am

Oh, and backwards circles are more inappropriate at traffic lights than track standing. :wink:
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby donnie darko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:17 pm

Adelaide is slowly becoming more cycle friendly. Jan Gehl an Architect from Scandivia was in Adelaide holding lectures on cycle friendly cities. Adelaide needs to lead the way on alternative transportation methods as it is an accessible city. With better infrastructure, the fight been cars and bicycl;e will decrease. I am a bad cyclists, but only because I like to be noticed on the road. I have be hit and to many close calls. By getting in the way a little more it was decreased close calls. Cheers sam
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby Zynster » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:28 pm

I always filter to the head of the line at lights. I can take off a lot faster than most cars, so I'll be well down the road doing 20-25kph before they catch up and pass. This gives me plenty of time to get across the intersection and into a good position to be passed. I'm not holding them up at all. Mind you, I use flat pedals, so no need for track stands or clipping in.
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Re: Bike skill/road sense

Postby brettjames » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:01 pm

I'd have to feel confident saying there are far more worse Drivers on the road that DON'T know the rules and rights of cyclists.
SURE, there are some dick riders, but I think I see almost 50% of drivers not sticking left unless overtaking, which is less than poor conduct also.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many Motorists do NOT realise that we are entitled to use the same roads, and same rules even though we don't consume petrol.

I probably use to see it only from a motorists view, but since riding I go OUT of my way as a mototrist to allow bikes right of way and plenty of clearance.
After all, what's the rush ? If your organised, you can afford to wait that extra 5 seconds for a cyclist to clip in, or navigate their way.

Motorist complancency is DEFINETLY an issue. Motorists often don't realise MINOR things, can cause MAJOR accicdents, even trivial as they may seem, the following MINOR issues could easily result in the death of cyclist:
NOT Indicating as required
SPEEDING
NOT Giving Way
DRIVING in bike lanes
RUNNING Red lights

Is it really that importannt to save 5 seconds ?????

I'm like many others, I tend to take up more road space (the areas I'm entitled to use) for the sake of being seen and staying safe. BUT when common sense is required, and keeping to the side is viable, I also do so.
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