Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby gdt » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:23 am

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26258397-5006301,00.html

A massive amount of anti-cycling sentiment in the comments.

148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Amy Noonan

THE state's growing army of cyclists is demanding a better deal, alarmed that authorities have failed to fund improvements to infrastructure.

A Federal Government survey shows cycling participation increased 43 per cent in South Australia last year and Bicycle SA chief executive Christian Haag said it was now more popular than swimming.

But 2007 figures from the Cycling Promotion Fund show SA spent only $2.20 per head on cycling infrastructure, behind Victoria with $3.70 per head, $4 in Queensland, $4.65 in WA and more than $10 in NSW.

"On one hand we have the Tour Down Under, which screams to the world SA is a great place to come visit, it's a cycle-friendly community," Mr Haag said. "What's not in balance is the funding (difference) that goes from promotion and encouragement for infrastructure."

The tour, and the January comeback of superstar Lance Armstrong, are just two of the factors that have sparked a significant increase in the profile and popularity of cycling in recent years.

Budget-conscious commuters, environmentally minded people wanting pollution-free transport and health professionals urging the public to exploit cycling's many health benefits are also fuelling the trend.

But Mr Haag said deficiencies in the state's bike infrastructure - mainly, a lack of a cohesive network of bike lanes - could be deterring more potential cyclists from getting on their bikes.

Bicycle SA, which represents the state's 148,000 cyclists, is calling for action on behalf of riders who are tired of bike lanes ending suddenly, forcing them to face traffic at busy intersections.

"What we see is that there was a large amount of bike infrastructure going down with the previous government and the current Government's maintained that strategy.

However, the funding levels of previous years are less than we'd have liked," Mr Haag said. "There's been no CPI increase, so there's a real-dollar-term decrease."

The Federal Government last week announced $5.7 million in funding for new bicycle infrastructure in SA.

Transport Minister Patrick Conlon's spokesman said the Government spent $95 million on cycling-related projects since 2002 with a further $3.9 million in 2009-2010.

In Queensland, Brisbane City Council is spending $100 million over four years on bicycle infrastructure. The WA government has committed $72 million and Victoria has invested $28.2 million in its bike and pedestrian network.
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by BNA » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:26 am

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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Wino » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:26 am

As active particpants in the cycling community, I think its important that we all make comments on the Advertisers feedback section to counteract those negative/aggressive remarks. A lot of friends and family who are only car drivers dont realise some of the things we regularly face when riding. The abuse, the rubbish being thrown, the near misses, etc. Let alone what people like Magda Szubanski incite! If they are not aware, then they wont even think of changing either behaviour or funding.

Make sure you have your say (constructively) and vote on the poll.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby brettjames » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:23 pm

done & done.

Made a number of comments. get in their an show some support.

148,000 cyclists is certainly enough to help make change.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby alex » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:55 pm

the best thing to do is just to ignore the cycling articles that come up on adelaide now every now and then

the pro-cyclist brigade comes across just as bad as the anti-cyclist brigade in the comments section of these types of articles
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Richard.L » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:05 pm

"If people want to commute on a bike, good luck to them. If they want to use the roads for sport or recreation I have no sympathy for them when things go wrong. Roads are designed for cars and trucks and paid for with fuel taxes and rego etc. Go ride your toys in the back yard."
Posted by: Lightnin of Adelaide 3:10pm today

Whats with this guy? Seems abit too over the top to my liking

These are the sort of people that would be yelling abuse or laughing at us.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:40 am

These articles are killing the relationship between bikes and cars. It will become a war, people will start going out their way to upset cyclist.

They have to understand, there are different groups of bike riders.

Commuters- normally new Australians/ uni students/ people who lost car license, buy a mtb from kmart and ride to uni,work not understanding any road rules. These are the ones you hear being hit by cars every morning. Some cyclist commute to work at own risk for extra km

Hubbarbs- groups of people who ride on weekends along coast etc, not really worrying about cars and safety, riding on busy roads in groups.

Cyclist- normally people who race/ training for something specific, ride alone or in team in the hills/country away from traffic/bike lanes and seem to never have problems with cars. Race on closed roads on weekend.

This crap is affecting all bike users and should only be aimed at a small majority of them

They need to bring in a license for cyclist, i.e sit a road rule test.

Adelaide is fine for cycling, fix the problem of bike riders knowing the rules.

Changing the speed limit to 40 will make it more dangerous, meaning cars and bike will be travelling at nearly the same speed.

Who are these idiots writing these articles, have they ever ridden a bike?
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby gdt » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:41 am

I saw a paper copy of The Advertiser, and there was a larger article accompanying the article and a pictorial (I searched for them on the web but couldn't find them).

Also, the paper had an editorial a few days ago, which actually showed an understanding of cycling. I do wonder if the editor has found a new hobby or form of transport:
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,,26259021-5006336,00.html
CYCLING infrastructure needs dedicated attention and funding from the State Government.

Rather than token motherhood statements during the lead-up to the Tour Down Under, the Government must comprehensively assess, repair and improve bike lane networks and make Adelaide a cyclist-friendly city. ...


There was another article today:
"Cut speed to let our cyclists live"
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26264287-5006301,00.html
SPEED limits on some arterial roads should be reduced to 50km/h and all residential areas should be 40km/h, Bicycle SA says.

Bicycle SA chief Christian Haag said reducing speeds had little impact on car and truck travel times, but dramatically increased safety for cyclists and pedestrians.

"You'll see from the graph that the incidence of injury is dramatically decreased by a reduction in speed to between 40km/h and 50km/h," Mr Haag said. "At 40km/h an hour you've essentially got a 30 per cent risk of dying, at 50km/h it's about 80 per cent and at 60km/h it's really 100 per cent."

Bicycle SA will develop a position paper to be presented to all tiers of government, lobbying for the change as well as encouraging Bike SA members to lobby personally their MPs.

Mr Haag said parts of Prospect Rd had already had speeds reduced, while arterial roads with lots of pedestrians and cyclists should be slowed to 50km/h, including:

UNLEY Rd between Cross Rd and the city;

GLEN OSMOND Rd between Fullarton Rd and Greenhill Rd;

GOODWOOD Rd shortly before Cross Rd, then to the city; and

ROADS around Westfield Marion and Westfield Tea Tree Plaza. Mr Haag said travel times for motor vehicles would not be severely impacted.

"Travel times in the metropolitan area are dictated by two things - congestion and the traffic light system.

"There is very little, if any, impact on metropolitan travel times because of speed restrictions."

Senior Sergeant Paul Warren, officer in charge of the Traffic Training and Promotion Section agreed slower speeds gave drivers more time to stop, but he stopped short of supporting the lowered limits.

"We'd look at the statistics and, if needed, we'd support that (but) we've got 37 serious injuries for cyclists, our best total in four years to date," he said.

In 2009, one cyclist and nine pedestrians have been killed.

Sen-Sgt Warren said slowing down could be the difference between a pedestrian or cyclist being "bumped instead of stonkered".

Road Safety Minister Michael O'Brien said he did not support slowing speeds on Unley Rd and speeds in residential areas were up to councils.

"Forty kilometre per hour speed limits in residential areas can be requested by local councils (but) I'm not aware of any current requests from any council in the Adelaide metropolitan area to lower the limit on roads under their control."

Local Government Association spokesman Chris Russell agreed 40km/h limits were not the answer.

"We have a lot of sympathy for Bike SA's interest in improving safety for cyclists but we're not sure a blanket approach to speed limits is the best solution," Mr Russell said.

Motor Accident Commission spokesman Ben Tufnell said drivers should not "creep" over the speed limit.


Of course the comments section has attracted the now-traditional bunch of crazies.

It is really encouraging is that The Advertiser sees cycling as a valid form of transport and is happy to promote and discuss it, rather than play to the commenting crowd and demonise cycling as a bunch of lycra-clad scofflaws who should have air-brake-sized registration plates riveted to their bicycles.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:49 am

this was on cyclingtips blog, if you follow these, there will be no issues.

Here’s a shortlist of the top actions that YOU put forward to address the problem between cyclists and motorists.

COOL – Showing some courtesy and acknowledgment to motorists. It costs nothing to give a smile or a wave to someone who slowed down or showed some respect for you. You’re on a public road and not in a race. Use the same social etiquette that the rest of society uses.

UNCOOL - Swarming cars stopped at a red light when in a bunch ride. Stay left and behind the vehicles. Use discretion when riding alone or in small groups in heavy traffic. Sometimes its reasonable to pass slow moving traffic if you’re consistently traveling faster.

UNCOOL – Using the opportunity of stopping at traffic lights to regain your position at the front of a bunch. This ends up blocking multiple lanes while getting around the forward riders.

COOL – Riding 2 abreast. This is preferred but not always possible when passing other groups. If passing, at the very least, keep inside the white line. EVEN if it means losing your position in your bunch, drift back and keep inside the your lane. Shoulder check and look for cars when overtaking.

UNCOOL – Treating our bunch rides like races. We’re not in a closed arena. There is no need for a bunch sprint to go all over the road at the end of a ride. Yeah it’s fun, but that’s what Sunday crits are for. Leave your ego at home and show what you’ve got in a real race.

COOL - Having the balls to tell your mates when they do a bonehead move. The more the higher level riders speak up, the more others will speak up with you. 88% of you reading are expert to advanced level cyclists. Use your position of influence to promote change.
This was a popular one in the comments but it doens’t necessarily involve our relationship with motorists:

COOL – Leaving your iPod at home on busy roads. For your own safety and the others in the bunch. You primarily use 2 senses on the road – your vision and your hearing.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby rustychisel » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:53 am

The Editor of 'The Advertiser', Melvin Mansell, has been a keen cyclist for years and takes part in organised rides such as the Tour Downunder Challenge, Amy's Ride etc.
Arts writer Tim Lloyd has been a commuting cyclist for many many years… other staff, clearly, also know a thing or two about cycling.

Ben85 - you may make the distinction between several subgroups of cyclists but many motorists do not, I assure you. There are good and bad in all forms of endeavour: bad drivers are in the minority, as are bad cyclists. It's possible, since many of us both drive and cycle, that the bad ones are just that regardless of their preferred transportation.
FWIW I strongly refute your idea that lowering the speed limit will be 'more dangerous' since it will bring the respective speeds of cars and cyclists closer together. Riding in traffic and the integration principles inolved makes it clear this is much safer than high closing speeds. There is no question of that whatsoever.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby gdt » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:07 am

Ben85 wrote:Cyclist- normally people who race/ training for something specific, ride alone or in team in the hills/country away from traffic/bike lanes and seem to never have problems with cars. Race on closed roads on weekend.


That's a rather blinkered view of what a cyclist is. It doesn't even include other cycle sports such as Audax and triathlon.

Commuters may very well see cycle racing as the problem. It was a race training squad which didn't stop for the red pedestrian light on Beach Road in Vic, killed a pedestrian, bought down the crackdown on cycling by Victoria Police, and seems likely to lead to cycle registration.

I suppose I'm a tad miffed by your classification because I'm a "commuter" (although not with a Kmart bike). I do about 600Km/week. But despite all that time on a bike on the road I'm apparently not a "cyclist". Because I choose to spend my weekends surf life saving instead of racing the bike. Hmm. Says more about you than me, I think.

In my view cycling is a broad church. There's cycle sports, commuting, those in it for the look (hello fixies), kids being kids and getting outdoors, people getting out of the house on the weekend, people getting fit, and so on. The very best thing about Amy's Ride is that it's one of the few events where most of the church assembles. And that makes for a great day.

As for the 40Km/h speed limit, it's inevitable. There's a whole host of reasons why pedestrians and cyclists will win back the city and suburban streets in the coming years. And as part of making those streets safer for the new major users of those streets the speed limit will be bought down.

As a commuter cyclist who puts in a fair amount of time around traffic, I don't see compatibility between 40Km/h and cycling as more of a problem than at 60Km/h. Rather I welcome the increased time that the interaction takes, so that cars and bikes have time to react to the occasional error of each other. And I certainly feel a lot more better that if we both make an error, then I'm a lot less likely to die.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:36 am

Of course audax and triathlons are cyclist, they are training for something specific and race in a close eviroment.

600km a week is impressive, more than the top ais cyclist do. You must be training for something, surf life saving? Lots of athletes use cycling as fitness for there chosen sport ie. rowing etc.

I dont like the comment about cyclist and pedestrians winning back the streets in a few years, thats crazy. You make it sound like a war. I'm pretty sure cyclist are out numbered, there are alot of ferals in the world that wouldnt care if they hit a cyclist and kept going. Thats why I choose to train at certain times of the day and away from traffic.

I never heard about the pedestrian being killed in Vic, when was this?

there will be thousands of opinions on this crap, but the end of the day, cars are bigger, Australia is full of ferals and the majority dont give a showtime about cyclist. The more these hippies fight for a safer cycling state, the more pissed of the majority get. The more dangerous it will become.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Supe » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:48 am

Ben85 wrote: The more these hippies fight for a safer cycling state, the more pissed of the majority get. The more dangerous it will become.


You give hippies too much credit. Cyclists come from all strata of society and we do it for different reasons. 'Hippies' do not own the debate on cycling safety and advocacy.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby alex » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:56 am

the sooner BSA shut their mouths the better
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Verbs & Nouns » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:59 am

Ben85 wrote:These articles are killing the relationship between bikes and cars. It will become a war, people will start going out their way to upset cyclist.

They have to understand, there are different groups of bike riders.

Commuters- normally new Australians/ uni students/ people who lost car license, buy a mtb from kmart and ride to uni,work not understanding any road rules. These are the ones you hear being hit by cars every morning. Some cyclist commute to work at own risk for extra km

Hey Ben85…

I was born in Australia, hold a car license (which I’ve never lost), own three bikes and ride to full time work 95% of the time (the other time I catch the train to work). I’m not a part of any cycling “club’ (except for our Tuesday night fixed gear ride), nor am I training for anything.

What am I classified as?
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:15 am

Verbs & Nouns,

I just put it in my style calculator,

Result, you are European trendsetter, that rides a fixie on the street and causes havic. Your would have alot of style and follow the euro culture. 8)

I have much respect for fixies as you must be a very good bike rider to able to control such a machine in traffic. I also ride track, and know the thrill of single speed. Track stand comp? haha

Much respect
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Verbs & Nouns » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:25 am

Ben85 wrote:Verbs & Nouns,

I just put it in my style calculator,

Result, you are European trendsetter, that rides a fixie on the street and causes havic. Your would have alot of style and follow the [s]euro[/s] Japanese Keirin culture. 8)

I have much respect for fixies as you must be a very good bike rider to able to control such a machine in traffic. I also ride track, and know the thrill of single speed. Track stand comp? haha

Much respect

Fixed it for you.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Verbs & Nouns » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:26 am

Ben85 wrote:Verbs & Nouns,

I just put it in my style calculator,

Result, you are an Australian trendsetter, that rides a fixie on the street and causes havic. Your would have alot of style and follow the Japanese Keirin culture. 8)

I have much respect for fixies as you must be a very good bike rider to able to control such a machine in traffic. I also ride track, and know the thrill of single speed. Track stand comp? haha

Much respect

Fixed it for you.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby One » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:54 pm

alex wrote:the sooner BSA shut their mouths the better

I Agree. The suggestion to slow traffic to 40km/h is going to please be my friend the motorists even more. People just need to relax a little. A few cyclists have massive ego's and also look for trouble too i'm convinced.

BSA needs to work on changing motorists attitudes i think. Every time there is a beat up in the paper and the readers offer their 2 cents, some bright spark will always come up with the 'they dont pay rego' comment. As far as i know (am happy to be corrected) Rego goes to motor injury claims, 3rd party insurance etc not road construction. It is my understanding that all roads are built from general taxes. Therefore, as taxpayers, we do contribute towards road construction. The ill informed need to understand this and know that cyclists have every right to be on the road, rego or otherwise.
Last edited by One on Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Verbs & Nouns » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:36 pm

On a lighter note, there’s going to be (more of) a bike lane along Port Road. I swung onto it this morning from Cheltenham Parade and the markings have been sprayed. Looks like it’s going to connect to the existing bike lane that starts from South Road. Now they just need to fix the bitumen along there and I’ll be very happy.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby gdt » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:47 pm

Verbs & Nouns wrote:...there’s going to be (more of) a bike lane along Port Road.


Excellent. That's on the path from my place to the city.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby brauluver » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:04 pm

Ben85 wrote:They need to bring in a license for cyclist, i.e sit a road rule test.



So your telling me a 10/12 year old kid would need to sit for a licence to ride his/her bike on the street or to school legally.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:54 pm

brauluver wrote:
Ben85 wrote:They need to bring in a license for cyclist, i.e sit a road rule test.



So your telling me a 10/12 year old kid would need to sit for a licence to ride his/her bike on the street or to school legally.

get a grip!



Haha funny, a 10-12yr old kid shouldn't be riding to school by themself at that age anyway, and riding in there street isn't an issue.

School kids have much more road sense than half the cyclists in SA. They have alot of courses at school now on bike safety and the juniors that race in Adelaide had a 2 week course on road safety during there holidays with policeman.

Just an idea on how to make cyclist more aware, and clean up the issues of bad cyclists.

How would you fix the problem?
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby brauluver » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm

Ben85 wrote:How would you fix the problem?


Can't really see that is any problem to be fixed actually.
Just the media beating showtime up to make copy and a million self styled experts offering remedies to low level personal grievances of sheep that read the Advertiser.
i ride and experience all sorts of stuff, and just do what needs to be done in a respectful manner.If I didn't like it i'd stop riding.registration/licencing on cars doesn't seem to stop the boneheads(minority) from doing silly stuff.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby SLH » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:17 pm

Ben85 wrote:
brauluver wrote:
Ben85 wrote:They need to bring in a license for cyclist, i.e sit a road rule test.



So your telling me a 10/12 year old kid would need to sit for a licence to ride his/her bike on the street or to school legally.

get a grip!



Haha funny, a 10-12yr old kid shouldn't be riding to school by themself at that age anyway, and riding in there street isn't an issue.

School kids have much more road sense than half the cyclists in SA. They have alot of courses at school now on bike safety and the juniors that race in Adelaide had a 2 week course on road safety during there holidays with policeman.

Just an idea on how to make cyclist more aware, and clean up the issues of bad cyclists.

How would you fix the problem?

Haha funny, a 10-12yr old kid shouldn't be riding to school by themself at that age anyway.
What a crock. I'm a teacher and kids love to ride their bikes to school. What's the issue?
School kids have much more road sense than half the cyclists in SA.
Sort of negates the quote above. If they have so mch road sense then why shouldn't they ride?

You need to drive your car around a school to see the trouble we have in trying to get as many kids as possible following ALL the rules. Stop making showtime up!

Just an idea on how to make cyclist more aware, and clean up the issues of bad cyclists.
Interesting that you are now the champion of the driver since your "tendonitis" injury. I could write a thesis on how to educate drivers and clean up the issue of bad drivers too. Why not just admit there is god and bad among both?

And stop pulling stats and theories out of nowhere.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Slh, haha yeh, kids love to ride to school, but 10-12 is very young to be commuting by themselves to school. Just my opinion. :?

I should of said high school kids have more road sense, which they do, the amount of teens racing and using road everyday is growing very quickly.

Champion driver, where you pull that from, very strange. Since off the bike I drive to the pool every morning and see alot of cyclist doing crazy things, cutting of cars etc. When i ride I dont see this as much. There are bad on both sides, i never said there weren't.

What stats & theories am I pulling out of nowhere?

You seem very angry, I forgot teachers are experts in every thing, a breed of their own.

These forums are so funny, every ones a hero behind the keyboard. I'm not on here to fight, just stat my opinion

We should go for a ride 1 day :)
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