Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:48 pm

I not sure who big bob is, he must be a champ :lol:

Yeh it is funny, my knee still not 100%, cause Ive had time to finish my diploma, loose weight without exercising. Not racing is killing me as I had a big opportunity given to me this summer, but showtime happens.

Mulger bill, can't see why that is gold, as driving to school aint causing obesity, its whats in the lunch box. Plenty of fat cyclist round.

Take care all, might see you at racing, Though haven't spoken to any1 that races on here
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by BNA » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:01 pm

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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:01 pm

You can't? OooooK

Yehuda had a strip saying the same thing, most people didn't get it either.

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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby SLH » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:22 pm

Ben85 wrote:Haha, If I want to make up stats from my previous experience, that aint nothing dangerous about that. BSA make up their own bs about cyclists in Adelaide and we all cop the s*** from it, thats dangerous. 148,000 cyclists, where they pull that from. No one I know demands a better deal.

I don't see any 10yo kids riding down south/goodwood/anzacs on school mornings ever. Because most parents care for there children and wouldn't put there kids in such a dangerous position. I could imagine a 10yo stuck on side of the road with a puncture, no phone and 10km between home and school. Thats safe with the amount of perverts in the world today or a dole bludger on way to pub being over the limit. Kids have after school to ride and have fun in a safe enviroment.

Yes I still stand by, anyone that wears a full team kit who arent in the team are w*****s. They are millions of plain kits and club kits you can buy. Stop trying to be something ya not. You cant wear a team kit in a CSA race unless your in the team. I saw team cervelo today, didn't relise they were in Adelaide :?

You enjoy ya cycling and Il catch ya at the crits, I dont know your name though???

Youll find me to be a good bloke, just have a strong opinion :)


Deep down, you might be a good bloke, but I tend to steer clear of people who make such wild accusatons against the general public.

Another thing...which schools in SA are only accessable via a main aterial road? As for 10 kms away with a flat, I think you'll find that most schools are within that ditance of everyone, unless they deem that school to be below them. I'm guessing you wouldn't send your kids to a school where any dole bludgers or perverts (especially when the majority of child abuse ie perpetrated by someone the child knows) are.

You have certainly sold racing to me. Can't wait to race, and have a beer, with so many like minded folk.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby steveoc » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:41 pm

Since this topic has gone into rant mode now, I thought Id have some fun with a rant of my own :

On the subject of cars on roads ... I used to think that maybe 5-10% of all car journeys were simply unnecessary exersizes in vanity .. the purpose of these journeys could be put down at some point to satisfying the all too common obsession with 'being popular'. Think about it -

- How many people clean their cars up and drive around on the weekend to catch up with 'mates', or go to parties with strangers that they met on facebook ?
- How many 'businessmen' are driving along to 'meetings' with 'prospects' that have no real interest in buying their goods and services ? They are just looking for a new audience to impress.
- How many soccer mums are speeding to get to school on time, because they have just spent the entire afternoon sitting around cafes chatting about how hard life is, and now they are running late ?
- How many trucks are on the road transporting consumer goods that people simply do not need to own, other than to impress their 'friends' and neighbors ?
- Why do so many people go into debt to purchase over-the-top new cars, just to get to work and back ? How many hours of their work week goes towards meeting the interest payments and maintenance costs on the car ? Just how far away from work do they live anyway ?

If petrol prices climb over $2 a litre (which is shortly inevitable), or even towards a more realistic $5 a litre ... we will soon see whether or not 'being popular' is such a good idea after all.

If you think that sounds cynical, then it gets worse - after riding for a while now, and thinking about this even more, I am starting to consider that the real numbers are more like 90% of all car journeys are just complete wastes of time that only pander to the ever growing egos of mouth breathing - road owning - gas gazzling - fat gutted - half blind car owners who believe that they are entitled to more than their fair share of resources ... whilst at the same time living in a nightmare of fear that maybe, just maybe, they are not as well liked by others as they think they have to be.

Of all the friends that I have, they definitely fall into 2 distinct categories. Those that ride bikes, are all very different people, and all interesting in their own way .. yet they share very similar views on a lot of core issues. If I had to find 1 word to describe what they all had in common, it would be 'independence'. Those car driving friends that do not ride - again all very different people, seem to go destructively through life with an inflated sense of entitlement, and they do thoroughly obsess with TV shows, facebook, celebrities, fashion, popularity contests, credit cards and a wide range of prescription medications to combat an ever wider range of insecurities.

Back on the original topic - its not the lack of decent cycling infrastructure that is the major problem - its the hordes of zombies that surround us all, demanding that we make way for them as they rush off to their next get together with other like minded zombies, in an attempt to out-impress each other and win the daily popularity contest that remains their sole reason for existence.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby alltorque » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:39 am

Beautifully written and spot on :)
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:59 am

Well said Steveoc. Post of the week! :D

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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby rustychisel » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:17 pm

absolute rubbish - the lot of it. :evil:























maybe
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Supe » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:05 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Well said Steveoc. Post of the week! :D

Shaun


It's a narrow minded, judgemental post that refers to motorists as 'mouth breathers' (and what do we do - absorb oxygen through osmosis?) and 'zombies'... A bit of pulpit preaching there ~ with an us vs them mindset that could be coming from the mouth of a shock jock. When I read it, I imagined the poster would make for a suitable member of the Brown shirts (Sieg Heil, Mein Fuhrer!). Close minded and bullying. It is precisely that mindset that makes for cults of personality, allows the rise of dictatorships and populism to rule. I think he had some valid points but I think the issue lies much deeper than the superficial demonising evident in that post. It's a very human issue. It goes to the core of who we are and the mysteries of what we do and why we do it. Cyclists are not above it. We are just as petty, egotistical, hypocritical, vain, nasty as each other. You prod hard enough, even the most enlightened and centred individual will reveal a dark side.


And yes. Fuel is not just 'likely' to rise. It WILL rise. Peak oil is here. Demand is up and supply is declining. The way we look at the Economy is one dimensional. Look at the Economic talking heads. Our political leaders. Their figures increasingly will have little meaning as they omit the bigger picture. Our environment. Where are the economic indicators and 'language' for how the environment is going? I reckon our environmental stock is plummeting and shares are bearish and we the stockholders haven't been made privy to the crisis about to slap us in the face and take us to the cleaners. Rudd is talking about growing our population so we can chase our tails paying for the perpetual growth of retirees, which requires an even larger tax base to sustain. We shouldn't be wanting to grow our population, we should be planning on trying to reduce it. Unfortunately, I believe unfolding events will impose upon us depopulation (but I expect medium term rapid pop growth) before our we wake from our delusions. That is if we are here to watch it happen. Stay tuned for grim times ahead.

@steveoc. Motorists aren't the problem. We are. All of us. [misanthrope. out]
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby brauluver » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:07 pm

steveoc wrote:
Of all the friends that I have, they definitely fall into 2 distinct categories. Those that ride bikes, are all very different people, and all interesting in their own way .. yet they share very similar views on a lot of core issues. If I had to find 1 word to describe what they all had in common, it would be 'independence'. Those car driving friends that do not ride - again all very different people, seem to go destructively through life with an inflated sense of entitlement, and they do thoroughly obsess with TV shows, facebook, celebrities, fashion, popularity contests, credit cards and a wide range of prescription medications to combat an ever wider range of insecurities.



What a load of oversimplified generalised rubbish :!:
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:17 pm

WOW, steveoc, that is scary. To think a bike rider thinks in that way.

I drive everyday and so would the majority on this forum and I do not full under any of those categories.
Yes fuel will rise but it has been rising for years, it could rise to $10 a litre and people will still drive. The cost of living, wages,cars,everything rises with inflation and will keep rising.

You noted your friends, you couldn't have many if not any, if you put the drivers under the category of gas gazzling fat zombies. Aint to many people in our Country without a car in the family.

You just seem very lonely, angry and jealous with some of the showtime you typed.

If people wanna buy nice cars and other assets and be in debt thats great its boosting our ecomony, creating jobs and enjoying the money they have worked hard for. If soccer mums wanna sit at the cafe while hubby earning 200000 a yr supporting them thats their decision.

I look at bike riders in the same way, why do people go out and buy 10g bikes with the goodies just to ride on weekend, cause they want to impress their mates and out do them, same as above point.

Wake up to yourself, and please never run for parliament :lol:
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby thommo09 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:44 pm

Ben85 wrote:I drive everyday and so would the majority on this forum and I do not full under any of those categories.
Yes fuel will rise but it has been rising for years, it could rise to $10 a litre and people will still drive. The cost of living, wages,cars,everything rises with inflation and will keep rising.


You're talking about price elasticity of demand (actually inelasticity), not inflation mate. And while you're right that consumption spending (buying stuff like bikes, cars etc.) is good for the economy in a lot of ways, there's more to it than that - there are other advantages to getting people out of cars and onto bikes.


I don't agree with either you or steveoc, sounds like you both need to take a chill pill :wink: .



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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby alex » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:02 am

steveoc wrote:Since this topic has gone into rant mode now, I thought Id have some fun with a rant of my own :

wow, this is hardcore. please seek medical advice asap.
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby m@ » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:07 am

thommo09 wrote:I don't agree with either you or steveoc, sounds like you both need to take a chill pill :wink: .



Peace.


+1... what's with the angst... is there something in the water in Adelaide or something? :lol:
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Ben85 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:15 am

thommo09 wrote:
Ben85 wrote:I drive everyday and so would the majority on this forum and I do not full under any of those categories.
Yes fuel will rise but it has been rising for years, it could rise to $10 a litre and people will still drive. The cost of living, wages,cars,everything rises with inflation and will keep rising.


You're talking about price elasticity of demand (actually inelasticity), not inflation mate. And while you're right that consumption spending (buying stuff like bikes, cars etc.) is good for the economy in a lot of ways, there's more to it than that - there are other advantages to getting people out of cars and onto bikes.


I don't agree with either you or steveoc, sounds like you both need to take a chill pill :wink: .



Peace.


Typo, meant everything rises to create inflation which is good. Yes ,there are lots of advantages to getting people out of cars and on bikes, but I cant see it happening. Australians are stuck in their ways of fast food and driving and you cant ride a bike through a drive thru :lol:
what is a chill pill?

My opinion, bikes are for racing, cars are for commuting. Thats why they call the racing bikes, mountain bikes and bmx bikes :)


And what dont you agree with? Just curious
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby rustychisel » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:51 pm

m@ wrote:
thommo09 wrote:I don't agree with either you or steveoc, sounds like you both need to take a chill pill :wink: .



Peace.


+1... what's with the angst... is there something in the water in Adelaide or something? :lol:







we're into the first heatwave of summer and tempers may be getting a bit frayed.



Either that or the testosterone levels are artificially high. Anyway, think this is bad??? I know you're watching the Market Place closely. What's up with that? It's almost like concerted campaign to destroy the goodwill of the forum lately, and that blows chunks. Either play by the rules or make like the fro! [_ _ _ _ right off!]
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby steveoc » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:05 pm

Technically, inflation is related to money supply, not prices - more money in circulation chasing the same amount of goods. All things being equal, this usually results in sellers raising their prices to compensate for extra dollars in circulation. We are living in interesting times at the moment though - especially if you look at the USA, where money supply has been inflated by ridiculous and historically unprecedented levels, but credit has been chopped off at the neck .. leading to a drastic drop in house prices, and soaring levels of foreclosures. The US housing market for instance has tanked, and vast, once booming housing estates are looking like a film set from a post apocalypse hollywood movie. The car industry is also in deep trouble ... not because of the price of oil, but because of the demise of easy credit. Much of the car industry (esp in the USA), has been artificially kept afloat for years, because people have been able to use their houses (or the theoretical ever-rising equity in their houses), as ATM's to draw an endless supply of cash from to continue to finance new purchases. That equity has now vanished, and with it the ability to continue buying new cars.

The goose that laid the golden eggs is all but cooked. What this demonstrates, clearly, is that most of the prolific consumption that we have enjoyed in the West over the last decades as been fuelled by easy credit - not production or money supply.

Similar pain has hit the UK in the last year or two, and Europe too has been hit hard. In fact, entire countries - such as Iceland, Eastern Europe and the Baltic states - have been all but wiped out as things have started unwinding. Once prosperous Dubai - now a shambles full of vacant mansions and unfinished building projects.

I do not subscribe to the idea that inflation (increase in the money supply) leads to rising wages and consumption - quite the opposite. Where money is based on debt, as is the case with all of our modern fiat currencies, combined with the magic of fractional reserve banking practices ..... things move in big cycles and the illusion of prosperity gets popped every now and then, with bad results for all. Thats where we are now globally.

Australia has been relatively untouched, thanks to the fact that as a nation, we export things of value. We have resources, and we are digging them up and selling them to the world as fast as we can. Our dollar is holding up well against other currencies, and only dropping slowly against gold.

So what has any of this got to do with cars and bicycles and the people that use them ? Quite a lot actually. Like the young adults of filthy rich parents, living at home rent free, and having things provided at the mere cost of a battered eyelid, or a screaming public tantrum ... it is easy to become mentally insulated from reality, and imagine sincerely that the world really does owe you what your heart instantly desires. Whilst at first it may appear that such kids are 'lucky', what we have there is an absolutely dependence on Mommy and Daddy to keep propping them up, lest their whole world fall apart. It is not unusual for young adults in this situation for life to become a fashion statement.

And so to, those that drive cars exclusively .. the 'lucky' ones ... Their sense of entitlement to drive a car leads to an absolute dependence on the car. A slave to the shiny car even. A broken gearbox, a cooked engine, or even a flat tyre can be the end of the world for some people. They have unwittingly put themselves in a situation where a flat battery or an expired rego disc can lead to total social isolation, risk of unemployment, or even a slow death by starvation .. because the nearest McDonalds is a whole 5km away from home. No, I don't envy them at all.

Things like - Peak Oil, climate change, massive economic corrections, decline in clean water supplies, spiralling debt, growing health issues, peak hour congestion, and the loss of purchasing power of our currencies ... are all big looming issues, but none of them are likely to harm us in the next week, and so can be easily ignored for now, and even forgotten about entirely. Besides, there is only so much one person can do when you are one amongst 6 billion+ that are part of the problem.

There are a hundred and one reasons why driving a motor vehicle from point A to point B is a bad idea. The energy consumed, the emissions created, the stress on the drivers, the congestion, the acres of ugly concrete parking spaces, and the danger to anyone that gets in the way of that vehicle are all just some of them. Just like the availability of easy credit has resulted in millions of garages around the world being filled to the brim with unwanted junk who's use was never properly considered at the time of purchase ... so too the easy availability of travel in a car has led to many of these point A to point B trips in motor vehicles without any consideration of the damage caused, let alone the actual need to make the journey in the first place.

The availability of cheap energy (while it lasts), has even changed the food we typically eat. It is 'cheaper' to ship genetically modified, heavily preserved junk grown on the dark side of the moon to our microwaves and dinner tables than it is buy locally produced fresh food that retains it's natural nutritional content.

OK, the rhetoric from my initial post was a bit OTT perhaps :oops: , but it was fun to write ... and at least I got your attention. I do maintain though that not all - but too many of our 'mouth-breathing' brothers and sisters out there who exclusively drive cars .. consider it their ever lasting entitlement and birth right to drive a tonne of metal from point A to point B whenever they feel the need, and that the consequences of their actions are everyone else's problem to deal with.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby twizzle » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:43 pm

I'm with steveoc, too people buy lots of crap they don't need, and then run around in a hurry trying to deal with their complex, debt ridden lives while their kids spend all their time on the game console, internet or watching pay TV. People have lost focus on the only really important things in life : food, shelter, clothing and your health.

Back to kids riding to school - I'll never forget when a co-workers 10 year old daughter was killed riding her bike across a road when coming home from school. And now (locally) they are closing the suburban schools in favour of 'super-schools' which require a bus trip or car trip to get the kids there. I'm lucky - I can afford for my wife to stay at home to act as taxi for the four kids, but damned if I can understand how young couples will ever be able to afford a house and children at the same time.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Supe » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:40 pm

steveoc wrote:So what has any of this got to do with cars and bicycles and the people that use them ? Quite a lot actually. Like the young adults of filthy rich parents, living at home rent free, and having things provided at the mere cost of a battered eyelid, or a screaming public tantrum ... it is easy to become mentally insulated from reality, and imagine sincerely that the world really does owe you what your heart instantly desires. Whilst at first it may appear that such kids are 'lucky', what we have there is an absolutely dependence on Mommy and Daddy to keep propping them up, lest their whole world fall apart. It is not unusual for young adults in this situation for life to become a fashion statement.

And so to, those that drive cars exclusively .. the 'lucky' ones ... Their sense of entitlement to drive a car leads to an absolute dependence on the car. A slave to the shiny car even. A broken gearbox, a cooked engine, or even a flat tyre can be the end of the world for some people. They have unwittingly put themselves in a situation where a flat battery or an expired rego disc can lead to total social isolation, risk of unemployment, or even a slow death by starvation .. because the nearest McDonalds is a whole 5km away from home. No, I don't envy them at all.



You have a blog don't you? :mrgreen: Is the sneer permanently etched into your face? Loosen up man. Your position is at odds with itself. You know in some cultures, it's seen as a good thing to keep the family unit together. One of my colleagues, says his greatest fear is that his kids won't want to stay home. He's Lebanese. Another colleague drives a nice car and lives rent free at home. He's 23 and Asian. What's it to you how families choose to live? I think it's awesome that some folks are family orientated. Think about it this way. Person moves out of home. They'll have to purchase new goods. Sure, they can take linen/towels/cutlery etc but there's only so much Mum and Dad can part with. You can buy from the op shop too but some things are just going to have to be bought new. They might include electricals like a Fridge, washing machine and a big TV (the days of watching the boob tube on a 20" CRT are gone dude). You've moved out and paying utilities (I'd argue that this cost both environmental and economic would be absorbed much more in a larger household), your food shopping, which again is not consolidated (if you've lived in shares, you know there is three loaves of bread, 2 x 2litre milks and the gone off one that no-one wants to lay claim to) is increased because of the additional packaging (buying bulk is cheaper but young adults don't do it), additional costs in terms of buying take out because it's far more convenient (additional carbon costs right there) than cooking for yourself. I think if you did the carbon sums, when comparing kids at home vs out of house, you'd find that the carbon footprint per person actually increased! When you've got multiple generations of family living in the one house, consolidation would lead to reduced carbon inputs. Factor in other issues. We are social animals. We by and large function better when there is a support network there for us. Isolation can lead to mental illness and other undesirable social outcomes.

The ability for an 18-20 year old to leave home is a relatively modern phenomenon which was only made possible by our increased individual wealth. This has been much eroded in recent years. In Darwin, landlords are making money hand over fist. To buy a house or unit, you need to be in a relationship unless you're making mega bucks. My sister and bro in law are moving from Brisbane to Melbourne as they've bought a house. They couldn't afford to do it in Brisbane. What's insane is that the Govt seems to think its great to go on a population expansion binge. Great. so more pressure on housing, infrastructure, environment. We can no longer build out, so we must build up. I am wondering if population size is seen as some sort of economic phallic symbol by the PM?

Btw. you're blaming the kids for something that predates their birth. Car culture goes a long way back. Our fascination with shiny things and the latest and greatest has enabled Island Kings and tribes to sell off their land to opportunistic empire builders - or sell a slave down the river. You're arguing about human nature.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby twizzle » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:31 am

Supe wrote:You have a blog don't you? :mrgreen: Is the sneer permanently etched into your face?


Play the ball, not the player. :roll:
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby Supe » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:07 am

twizzle wrote:
Supe wrote:You have a blog don't you? :mrgreen: Is the sneer permanently etched into your face?


Play the ball, not the player. :roll:


says you with the rolls eyes. :roll: Right back at you chump.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby twizzle » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:46 am

Supe wrote:
twizzle wrote:
Supe wrote:You have a blog don't you? :mrgreen: Is the sneer permanently etched into your face?


Play the ball, not the player. :roll:


says you with the rolls eyes. :roll: Right back at you chump.


Try reading the terms and conditions for forum use.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

Postby adelaidecyclist » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:17 pm

Cycotic wrote:I think it's much more dangerous now than when I rode to school many years ago. That's mainly because of the number of cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school......

And then there's the problem of childhood obesity. Maybe there's a link?

Exactly my sentiments Cycotic.

And it doesn't just stop with children. From kids to retiree's, we could all ride/walk/bus/train more, but we dont. We don't because no one else does. The roads are unsafe because everyone drives. Public transport is too expensive because everyone drives, etc, etc.
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