w00t for Adelaide

w00t for Adelaide

Postby Skexis » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:55 am

New bike paths, more funding. Story here. If it all actually transpires of course.
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by BNA » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:24 pm

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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby trailgumby » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:24 pm

Sadly, $1mil does not go very far at all these days. My thought is that someone left a couple of zeros off the end if they intended to make a meaningful difference.

Alas, it appears they did not - just enough to make a splash in the newspaper without actually doing very much.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby brauluver » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:56 pm

trailgumby wrote:Sadly, $1mil does not go very far at all these days. My thought is that someone left a couple of zeros off the end if they intended to make a meaningful difference.

Alas, it appears they did not - just enough to make a splash in the newspaper without actually doing very much.


Man I thought I was a cynic :wink: , something is better than nothing.

As an aside that pic with the story ol jack is packin to the left in glorious fashion.
I'm afraid if that was me the ol divinin rod would be hard right towards Kate. :lol:
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby bepboy » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:26 pm

brauluver wrote:I'm afraid if that was me the ol divinin rod would be hard right towards Kate. :lol:

+1 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby Biffidus » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:44 pm

Oi! That's my local member you're talking about there.

Heh, local member.

Edit: some more bike lanes would be nice... wonder what we'll get for $1,000,000.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby brauluver » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:11 pm

Biffidus wrote:Oi! That's my local member you're talking about there.

Heh, local member.



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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby Richard.L » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:46 am

I do see some getting dotted along the road where the rowing club is. (sry dont know what road is called yet)
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby brauluver » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:46 am

Richard.L wrote:I do see some getting dotted along the road where the rowing club is. (sry dont know what road is called yet)


War Memorial drive
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby bepboy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:24 am

For $1M I would guess we get about 1000mtrs of tarmac or a whole lot of paint.
If you think about the additional money that the event pumps back into the Adelaide (SA) economy, the $1M is pretty poor - but better than nothing.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby gdt » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:05 pm

bepboy wrote:For $1M I would guess we get about 1000mtrs of tarmac or a whole lot of paint.


As far as I can tell, we get a 3m-wide non-road bike path interconnecting the Torrens Linear Park, the new Zoo entrance, the Adelaide Park Lands Trail (eventually a "ring road" bike path around the city in the parklands), and Hackney Road. So your Option A. This is a plan the Adelaide City Council already had, it's just been brought forward, which is no bad thing. The Parklands Trail seems very much to be the sort of integrated planning that we all like to see, although the interconnections with other commuter bike paths need work.

The Federal Government funding announced towards the end of 2009 *was* a white line painting exercise. As can be seen by the lines going onto Military Road now. Lines that magically disappear the moment the road narrows and some distinction from the traffic is desirable. But of course, "bike lanes" under those conditions cost more than just paint.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby bepboy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:52 am

gdt, thanks for the response.
Its pleasing to see that we will get some tarmac vs just more white paint.
Its also "nice" to see that the City Council has an integrated vision, but I am a little cynical about what they will eventually deliver particularly since they make a big splash with an initial plan for the development of the parklands and then slowly and quietly water down the plans. But hey, Im a cynical old man.

However, I do think that an opportunity is going begging. We hear a lot from the ACC and the State Gvt (Mr Rann likes the photo ops too) about reducing congestion in the city and just the other day we had the proposal to park at the entertainment centre for 2bucks and tram it into the city. Its not a bad plan, it does have merit. But, seems to me that some planning around dedicated bike paths from the burbs to the city, potentially utilising space around tram lines and train lines would do a heck of a lot more to reduce congestion.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby Biffidus » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:47 am

The parklands trail is already pretty good - I can't wait until they put in some paths around the north eastern edge of North Adelaide. As for train/trams - they are talking about an adelaide to gawler cycle route (which will help my daily commute) and the tram line extensions include bicycle access.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby planner » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:56 pm

But will the "new" electric light rail system, ie trams, allow for the carriage of bicycles. Multi mode transit provides a much greater level of flexibility and caters to a diverse group of cyclists of varying abilities. The current heavy rail system caters well for cyclists and the carriage of bicycles on trains, if this facility is not available on the replacement system, the benefits will be reduced.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:38 pm

planner wrote:But will the "new" electric light rail system, ie trams, allow for the carriage of bicycles.....


I doubt it. Doesn't now, so I can't see it happening.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby Biffidus » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:43 pm

The "light rail" (trams) system isn't replacing the existing "heavy rail" (trains). The trams will be use the train line after Bowden station (near the Entertainment Centre) and then branch off at the other end to West Lakes and Semaphore. The trains will still run and are being upgraded on most lines to newer electric trains. I would be very surprised if the new trains don't have room for bicycles given that the upgrades they are currently doing to the existing trains are much better for bikes... but I agree with MichaelB, the trams wont.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby Cycotic » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:17 pm

This morning I rode past the new Amy Gillett bike path being constructed near Oakbank. It looks like a very nice 3m wide sealed path. Unfortunately it stops at every side road, so I can't see it being used by serious group riders, which defeats the purpose in a lot of ways.

It got me thinking... What would we like the government to spend money on? More of these bike-only roads? Bike lanes? Safe city bike parking? Driver education? Cycling awareness? If you were able to talk to the person who makes these spending decisions, what would you ask for?

Let's face it, the decision makers don't tend to ride bikes, so they have no idea. Here's your chance to be constructive.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:36 pm

Adding to Cycotics (Gotta love that name) referen ce to the Amy Gillett bike path, when I was in Adelaide I saw bugger all for cyclists but I did notice a couple of spots where marking rfor bikes were on the road but obviously done too cheaply to even take out pre-existing curbing onto the lane, so necessitating cyclists to merge in and out of the traffic. I couldn't believe it!

And to rave about increasing the on-road cycle paths and PSP/s to 770km! I really hope you guys can take the premier to task for much hype unmatched by any real action.

I was particularly disappointed while stayng at Port Elliot in March last year to see nothing much except worn out narrow scenic track from the time of the Roman empire.

For an out-of-stater I am somewhat interested in seeing decent rideable roads - I visit Adelaide regularly and would love to be able to pedal around more - a week off the pedals is hard to take. Adelaide is, like Perth, nice and flat with great weather. But congestion extends everywhere and it has got to have the most busy wide arterial roads to cross on the planet. So it looks so difficult to have an enyoyable cycle during busy times and far too much congestion and far too much interaction with traffic. Yech. I gotta tip my hat to those of you that do it!

btw can someone steer me to the ABS data indicating that Adelaide being the "cycle capital" of Oz (Premiers words). With his carrying on about a piddling 770km of tracking, I'm not inclined to accept it on face value.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby Biffidus » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:24 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:I did notice a couple of spots where marking rfor bikes were on the road but obviously done too cheaply to even take out pre-existing curbing onto the lane, so necessitating cyclists to merge in and out of the traffic. I couldn't believe it!


Most of those 770km are probably the many Adelaide backstreets now adorned with pictures of bicycles every few blocks, not even a lane marking. My old street received this treatment despite having culdesacs at both ends. The lane markings that do appear have a remarkable tendency to vanish at the first sign of a corner, narrow road or intersection.

On the plus side, the Adelaide City Council has been busy with new bike paths through the park lands, on street parking bays and some great bicycle zones at traffic lights.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby SeanB » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:53 am

well here's a link to the premier's new release but it doesn't quote the abs source and I couldn't find anything myself on the abs site (although it is a bit tricky to find stuff).

I'm also curious about where this data came from.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:58 pm

Last thing I can find from ABS was an article released in May last year and is at http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/1345.4Feature%20Article1May%202009, reflecting the story at the 2006 census. 2.2% of people rode a bike to work in the Adelaide Local Government Area, and improvement over the 2001 rate of 1.5%. Wow!

I can't find anything in the last two months of press releases, nor much else in the Social Trends data but, as said, it can be difficult to find the gems in the ABS for casual users. (A big push though -the ABS has many gems if you can find them - I used to have to clumsily fill the role of demagraphics analyst for my employer.)

Maybe the Premier needs stop sniffing his PR peoples butts for anything that can be faked into smelling nice and actually do something. Or find a librarian or academic or undergraduate somewhere who can give him a brief intro into referencing.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:40 pm

Aha - found a recent survey (supplementary questions actually) instigated by SA Govt is at http://www8.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/DoSSbyTopic/4CF4402DD6459936CA256BD00026DB10?OpenDocument. As it affords no comparison with other juridictions I hope that the Premier wasn't claiming top spot from that. Brief description as follows:

OVERVIEW

The survey was conducted on a sample of about 2,400 households throughout the Adelaide Statistical Division in the month of October. It was conducted at the request of the South Australian Government.

The Monthly Population Survey is a survey conducted each month throughout Australia. It has two components, the Labour Force Survey and a set of supplementary questions. In most months the supplements are conducted on a national basis but each year, usually in October, each State and Territory Government is given the opportunity to select a topic of importance to their State. In 1997 the SA Government chose to request a survey on journey to work, school and shop.

Information for the 1997 survey was obtained about modes of transport used to travel to place of work and place of education; the origin and destination of journeys; departure time and duration of trip; main reason for using or not using a bus, train or tram; bicycle usage; whether passengers were taken and types of trips linked to the main journey to and from work. Not all this information was collected for cycles of the survey and in earlier cycles details of journey to shops was collected.


The one ABS data set that DOES enable comparison is from the 2006 Census - I note that Dr Bonham presented a paper on cycling based on the 2006 census a few days before the Premiers chest thumping so I surmise that the statements may have followed that. But that particular data set reveals that 2% of Adelaide LGA workers rode to work on Census Day. Melbourne, from memory, had 3.5%.

To my own shame WA was down low with SA, but with the quality of roads/freeways/etc and the much higher level of train usage, a whole lot more has to be put in to get similar outcomes. And driving in and around and through Perth city and suburbs is just too easy.

Last thing I heard publicly was that WA had over 7000km of cycle paths, PSPs and bike lanes. We apparently need more.

Come on all croweaters, lobby like buggery and make lots of paths for me - around Henley Beach and Glenelg would be great.
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Re: w00t for Adelaide

Postby dirty_harry » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:34 pm

so the amy gillet bike way opened the other day. have any of you riden on it yet? i rode from woodside to riverside rd before i had to get off of the horrible bitumen they have laid. it is literally gravel mixed with cement dust then watered down so it sets solid. how about a bit of hotmix. can someone in the industry enlighten me as to the price difference, is the hotmix much more expensive i cant work out why they havent laid nice smooth hotmix. anyway off the bitumen, they also havent even laid it flat and smooth it feels like its got corrugations on it all the way along it was just horrible to ride on. dont get me wrong i love the idea of bike only paths and its certainly nice to get off that fast road (100 km limit and they do more) but i certainly wont use it again as it was so horrible to ride on. as for having to cross the road each time i can deal with that cause its nice to get off the road. this is my opinion id like to know yours. h
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