Pothole Amy's ride

Pothole Amy's ride

Postby nusha » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:23 pm

Whilst it was overall a well organised day..... How on earth was that MASSIVE, DANGEROUD pothole after turning off the expressway and heading into old noarlunga allowed to be there?
Surely if you have organised an event to promote cycling safety and 3000 odd cyclists will be going through, many without clear vision of the road such a dangerous hazard should have been addressed.
The pothole should either have been fixed or coned off.
Instead, many of us ended up with badly damaged wheels. - Mine are no longer useable but I guess i should consider myself "lucky" I didn't bring down the pack of 15 guys with me.
I am furious that the council and bikesa overlooked the safety of the route.
Worse still - a post stating someone informed the council and bikesa the week before of this hazard.
Anyone have similar experiences?
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by BNA » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:33 pm

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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby monbeg » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:33 pm

I agree nusha, should not be there. I missed it but saw a few that didn't.
It is one of just a few items that I will be addressing on the survey email that they have sent out asking for comments.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby MichaelB » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:14 am

Agree with you level of upset, but sometimes, despite some peoples best efforts (or not), stuff happens.

My suggestion is be polite, but firm. Contact BikeSA, ask for assistance and then contact the council. Above all, be polite and seek help/recompense.

Also, learn from the experience.

Good luck.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:25 pm

I think my problem is I'm old school and I just can't grasp the blame game these days so for the soft don't read the below it may offend....

If this event is for safety awareness (As I think it is because I don't pay much attention to such events) then why be upset at the organisers or councils after all taking responsibility for your own action and heeding safety as a rider falls on our shoulders. Riding in a clump up peoples clacker with little time for visual awareness isn't what I call being safe for such a ride to promote such things. I just feel that folks these days need to stand up/own up a bit more than pass the buck for everything that goes wrong in there life.

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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby liamb » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:08 pm

I consider it like it was just a normal weekend ride out with my mates and I hit the pot hole what would you do? I have in the past and put it down to me being inattentive and not concentrating. I informed to appropriate council and the next ride the holes were fixed, got a smile on my face because my lack of concentration means a problem was fixed and others now don't have to miss it. I understand that there may be a duty of care but I still think that unless there were heaps of accidents caused by the hole nothing financial will happen. Bike SA are not responsible for the road and possibly my get in trouble for messing with council property by "repairing the road" and the council will most likely not care and wont pay for a set of expensive wheels, just as they wont replace car tyres damaged by pot holes.

Just my thoughts

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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby nusha » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:31 pm

Thank you for all the considered responses. I agree with most of what has been said. I do also consider "event" organizers charging an entry fee have some level of responsibility for safety. That's not to say they are causing the accidents, however through taking no action they are significantly putting the "participants" at risk.
For me it certainly is not a normal weekend ride, I do not regularly get up on my weekends to ride with 3000 others of completely variable fitness and bike handling skills. Perhaps naively I assumed that someone would have checked the roads prior to event day - after all it was no surprise we were out there. Riding with so many people does obscure vision of the road, it doesn't take a genius to work that out.
And as far as the council paying to fix the road prior to the event - well that's not for me to say but I truly believe it absolutely should have been coned off - so it would have been visible. Why do I think that? Because - at a minimum that is what I would have done.
I also do agree that overall the day was otherwise very well organized just a shame than cyclists safety not considered a priority.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby feeltherush » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:35 pm

I agree with you nusha that with so many people on the road seeing something up ahead is much harder if people aren't using hand signals (which I tried to do but it was too late for the guy directly behind me) I think the combination of congested riders/fast downhill section/being aware of the problem beforehand all make for a situation that wasn't very good for all involved, that fact that so many people got caught out and some serious dollars will need to be spent to fix up peoples damaged wheels (which would have otherwise been easily avoided if they were out with their usual small groups/weekend ride) leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth which is a real shame considering that BikeSA do such a great job most of the time, mind you in this case I believe that the council is more to blame than BikeSA.

Let's hope that they can both learn from this and make next year's ride that much better for it.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby MichaelB » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:29 am

nusha wrote: ....but I truly believe it absolutely should have been coned off - so it would have been visible. Why do I think that? Because - at a minimum that is what I would have done.
I also do agree that overall the day was otherwise very well organized just a shame than cyclists safety not considered a priority.


They couldn't cone it off, as the road was not closed (unlike the Expressway). They could have had some warning though.

To think that BikeSA doesn't consider biker safety as a priority is now taking it too far. It's a silly statement, and whilst I had some sympathy, that's now gone.

Build a bridge and move on.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby rustychisel » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:40 am

I'm kind of in agreement Michael, but people come up with some silly stuff on the i'net they wouldn't say in normal conversation.

anyhoo, to broaden the point if I may. Riding in the Hills on the weekend with an Victorian acquaintance he made the point after we'd descended Montacute Road that some of these most used hills roads are in a truly crap condition and all that will be needed come January is for one or two of our interstate or overseas visitors to hit a bad rut, or pothole and the goodwill and PR we claim as a 'cycling state' will be gone in a flash.

He's right. For the want of some remedial work we could have the best cycling roads in the country. I'm thinking of the main access points... the old Freeway needs some surface work (and a little cleaning wouldn't go astray), New Norton Summit used to be wonderful but the lower reaches in particular are absolutely shameful due to the earthmoving equipment and building trucks which have used it over the past 4 years or so, and Montacute above the CFS is dangerously split, front heaved and poxy. Through the valley on Montacute is great, but the most dangerous section has always been at the top. And Gorge Road , well, Gorge Road has to be shared with quarry vehicles, but the deterioration of the road surface has to be better managed. The difference in surface quality above and below the quarry gates is marked.

I think if one cyclist is thrown off their bike by a poor quality road which gets them into difficulties then it's one too many; and quite avoidable.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby MichaelB » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:27 pm

Belair Rd is pretty average in quality as well, and some sections of Greenhill are too. But Norton Summit is the worst by far of the roads I ride regularly
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby Daccordi Rider » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Off topic but how did you go up Woodland Way Michael?
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby buzz » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:29 am

I can appreciate that it must be a pain in the ass to have damaged you wheel, but it seems a bit presumptuous and precious to think that riding conditions were going to be anything out of the norm.

Short of repairing the road, the only preventive measure I could envision would be some spray paint. But realistically even if the pot hole was marked if you weren't in a position to react in time to avoid the pothole then spray paint or other warnings would not have worked in your case.

As I seem to be saying to a large percentage of wobbly and absent minded cyclists of late 'EYES UP'!!!! Generally as a rule of thumb when I am cycling I have find its best to look where I'm going!
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:37 am

rustychisel wrote:I'm kind of in agreement Michael, but people come up with some silly stuff on the i'net they wouldn't say in normal conversation.

anyhoo, to broaden the point if I may. Riding in the Hills on the weekend with an Victorian acquaintance he made the point after we'd descended Montacute Road that some of these most used hills roads are in a truly crap condition and all that will be needed come January is for one or two of our interstate or overseas visitors to hit a bad rut, or pothole and the goodwill and PR we claim as a 'cycling state' will be gone in a flash.

He's right. For the want of some remedial work we could have the best cycling roads in the country. I'm thinking of the main access points... the old Freeway needs some surface work (and a little cleaning wouldn't go astray), New Norton Summit used to be wonderful but the lower reaches in particular are absolutely shameful due to the earthmoving equipment and building trucks which have used it over the past 4 years or so, and Montacute above the CFS is dangerously split, front heaved and poxy. Through the valley on Montacute is great, but the most dangerous section has always been at the top. And Gorge Road , well, Gorge Road has to be shared with quarry vehicles, but the deterioration of the road surface has to be better managed. The difference in surface quality above and below the quarry gates is marked.

I think if one cyclist is thrown off their bike by a poor quality road which gets them into difficulties then it's one too many; and quite avoidable.


Some great points Rusty. I think we get used to deteriorating road surfaces and stop noticing then until we come to a good surface. I sometimes ride along Piggot Range Rd which is as smooth as silk and a pleasure to ride on. It shouldn't be impossible to maintain a decent surface on all roads IMO, especially those we are showcasng during events like the TDU (or Classic Adelaide rally).
Recently I've ridden on the Stuart O'Grady track, it's like chalk and cheese compared with the Veloway. Hopefully there will be some money left over from the SExy duplication to resurface the bike path. :roll:
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby liamb » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:16 am

One thing to consider guys is the cost to completely resurface roads that are really made for cars and car go fine on them, and I suspect the whinging and moaning from all the tools about entire roads being closed for some months will be too much to bear. My neighbor who is a road safety consultant told me to resurface the bad section of George road would run to well over 20 million dollars alone!!!! and there would be a significant time to do it as there are really no detour options, so it would be one side then the other side and many months of holes, gravel, rocks and dangerous conditions for all. We really need to consider what the roads are there for, cars and transport vehicles in the main and how the road affects them. Once the roads fail to take care of the vehicles then there will be investigations and then a budget and then the money will need to be found and then maybe it will happen. Anyway for me if the road is not suitable for me I just dont use it, there are so many great roads in SA I dont need to use bad roads. (my only real hated road is the section of North East road from the Tea Tree Gully Hotel up to Haughton. Very , very bad surface and dangerous motorists. having said that my drive home from the river is smooth as down there in the car!!!)

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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby rustychisel » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:05 am

liamb wrote:One thing to consider guys is the cost to completely resurface roads that are really made for cars and car go fine on them, and I suspect the whinging and moaning from all the tools about entire roads being closed for some months will be too much to bear. My neighbor who is a road safety consultant told me to resurface the bad section of George road would run to well over 20 million dollars alone!!!! and there would be a significant time to do it as there are really no detour options, so it would be one side then the other side and many months of holes, gravel, rocks and dangerous conditions for all. We really need to consider what the roads are there for, cars and transport vehicles in the main and how the road affects them. Once the roads fail to take care of the vehicles then there will be investigations and then a budget and then the money will need to be found and then maybe it will happen. Anyway for me if the road is not suitable for me I just dont use it, there are so many great roads in SA I dont need to use bad roads. (my only real hated road is the section of North East road from the Tea Tree Gully Hotel up to Haughton. Very , very bad surface and dangerous motorists. having said that my drive home from the river is smooth as down there in the car!!!)

Bill


I can believe a complete resurface of Gorge Road would be mega expensive, but..
- France manages it, resurfacing roads before the TDF comes through. Bet it doesn't cost that much.
- it's already dangerous, that's partly my point.
- why in any reasonable assessment would we (cyclists) accept second best? We're also car drivers, some of us are truck drivers, we're cyclists, tax payers etc. Why accept second best?
- you appear to have answered your own question in the negative with your noting of NE Road to Houghton, thus shooting yourself in the foot. We all know some areas of bad road, some appalling, I like riding Brownhill Creek Road to the end just because it is such a piece of cr4p. The City streets around Hindmarsh Square have awful tarmac ridges and lumps squeezed up by buses, but that's not my point.
- I'm talking about tourist routes, cycling visitors, and having our State on show as a cycling friendly destination. Do you really want me to show visitors the lifting slabs of tarmac on the old freeway climb and say 'that's the best we can do'? I didn't think so.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby liamb » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:38 am

Hi Rusty
Firstly I would really like to see all roads in SA perfectly glass flat surfaces with no blemishes and I would also like to have every road closed that I ride on so my mates can ride the best lines in total safety, reality is none of these will ever happen!
As far as NE road goes what I was trying to say was it is so bad on the bike that I avoid it, but in the car I have no problems what so ever. I can assure you after speaking with my next door neighbor, vehicles will over ride a bike any day as the people who assign the money to projects would see little or no benefit to pleasing a cyclist as they dont see us transporting goods and services. ( I dont agree but that is what the govt department will see).
You cant compare the TDF to Adelaide, it is chalk and cheese. The TDF is and ocean compared to our little lake :) TDU. (I love the TDU but it will never be the TDF) The amount of people watching The TDF is probably over 1000 times that would watch the TDU. The french govt probably ( I have no idea but) collect tens of millions of dollars every day of the TDF so can justify repairing every bit of bad roads in the event but you still see terrible road on the SBS vision.
Unfortunately as with the Vehicle death toll it take way too many deaths for anyone to consider the conditions of the roads and the impact that has on the death toll. A few cyclists breaking wheels will not result in a resurface, I really want safe roads and agree that we as cyclist deserve it just as much as vehicles but my reality check tells me it will not happen, along with comments from my neighbor.
I hate being negative but as I said my reality check says there will need to be dramatic accidents to result in resurfacing. I wish we had and want the best roads in the country but in my 50 000km on the road in my work vehicle I see terrible roads each and every day that have been there for as long as I can remember and with funds being poured into South Road and the Express way things like our favorite downhills and roads wont get much attention for a while.

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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby Daccordi Rider » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:41 am

I just want them to be glass free! 8)
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby MichaelB » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:37 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:Off topic but how did you go up Woodland Way Michael?


Just sent PM. Made it without stopping, but that last steep section is one MOTHER !!!!!
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby MichaelB » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:47 pm

rustychisel wrote:
I can believe a complete resurface of Gorge Road would be mega expensive, but..
....


Rusty, you'll be horribly surprised at how quick the cost add up. You should see how much it costs to lay water/sewer pipes, and do things like submersible pump stations to pump poo in the streets.

That's why water rates are high !!!!

As a side note, did anyone who watched the Tour of Beijing notice that some of the roads that they raced on looked freshly laid and painted without any prior traffic ....

Back to topic. Potholes. Crap happens sometimes. Lucky it's only a wheel !!
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby MichaelB » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:22 pm

MichaelB wrote:
rustychisel wrote:
I can believe a complete resurface of Gorge Road would be mega expensive, but..
....


Rusty, you'll be horribly surprised at how quick the cost add up. .....


Just spoke to a guy at work involved in re-sheeting roads.

For reasonable sized jobs, it's $140/tonne (for 25mm thick, 10mm gravel hotmix) which does about 14 sq. m, and therefore $10/sq metre. Note that this is laying cost only, not any prep work, profiling, traffic managemnt costs etc. To patch a pothole type scanario, it's $300/tonne.

It ain't cheap love !!
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby rustychisel » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:12 pm

no, my point, I suppose, is running repairs seems possible. The French run a layer of tarmac etc over the exisitng roads, filling in cracks and depressions without complete rebuilding. I've sat there and seen it done.

My real point, why accept second best?
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:04 am

MichaelB wrote:
rustychisel wrote:
I can believe a complete resurface of Gorge Road would be mega expensive, but..
....


Rusty, you'll be horribly surprised at how quick the cost add up. You should see how much it costs to lay water/sewer pipes, and do things like submersible pump stations to pump poo in the streets.

That's why water rates are high !!!!

As a side note, did anyone who watched the Tour of Beijing notice that some of the roads that they raced on looked freshly laid and painted without any prior traffic ....

Back to topic. Potholes. Crap happens sometimes. Lucky it's only a wheel !!


I observed the same, rural hills roads that looked as smooth as silk. I guess labour is cheap over there.
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby eeksll » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:01 pm

you cannot be sirrus wrote:I observed the same, rural hills roads that looked as smooth as silk. I guess labour is cheap over there.


China spare no expenses when they are on the international stage.

I second Piggott Range Rd, that is one NICE road. Bottom of Montactue rd is nice also.

There is a pot hole towards the center of the road coming down Montacute before institute rd (sorry thats the best I can describe it at the moment :? )
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:00 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:I just want them to be glass free! 8)


Motion 2nd'd
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Re: Pothole Amy's ride

Postby arknotnoahs » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:58 am

Hate to deactivate the original thread, but only just got around to reading up on it. I must say, overall I am disappointed with the lack of support from fellow cyclists on this, and statements like withdrawing sympathy after other valid points raised. I was right next to a person in a pack when they hit the pot hole, and there was nothing they could do. So either it is expected that a group of 3000 people are going to ride not in packs, and anyone who thinks that is likely not to have sufficient IQ to read anyway so won't see this forum, or if accepting that 3000 riders will be riding in large groups and therefore will be unable to see dangerous pothole, then come on people, surely this is not acceptable. Especially ironic in a ride promoting rider safety! It should not have been there, and when I pulled over I saw many people with very expensive wheels broken, or pinched tubulars unable to be fixed on the road. Simply unacceptable for an event like that, and very dangerous, it was just sheer luck a whole pack wasn't brought down, or maybe it was and we just haven't heard about it. Any of the people saying eyes up and things like that I hope to god have nothing to do with oh&s in your workplace..... Hard to imagine how not in support of riders who had no chance to see an avoid a shocking pothole that should never have been allowed to be there. Good luck all those affected against the council, if enough of you keep pursuing it may force them to come to some sense, and good luck to those not in support, I hope you have better thoughts about things in the future.
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