Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby rustychisel » Thu May 30, 2013 6:19 pm

A bit like the bad old days.

If you commute to or near the city beware of rogue bus drivers who think nothing of enforcing a punishment pass, squashing you into the kerb, and slamming windows and ignoring remonstrations.

Most are good, some are poor, one at least is potentially lethal.

I'll say no more at this stage, but hope this morning's practitioner gets his collar felt very roughly indeed... complaint with SAPOL lodged.
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by BNA » Thu May 30, 2013 8:24 pm

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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Dr_Mutley » Thu May 30, 2013 8:24 pm

Yes it seems that way,... I don't commute by bike, just mainly train in the afternoon, I so don't have to endure much rogue activity... But a friend of mine has posted 4 or 5 videos from his gopro in the last couple of months, of bus drivers disregarding cyclists and presenting great danger to them. Afaik he has sent them to transportSA, so a response, if any, will be interesting....
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby TigerFilly » Thu May 30, 2013 10:10 pm

I avoid them mostly because I have shared path to ride on almost the entire way to work, BUT...
the other day when I was driving to work, I had pulled out, just over the centre line, to pass a bus which was stopped at a bus stop, and when I was already next to the bus it suddenly pulled out and took off. There was a traffic island just past where the bus was stopped. I would have had just nice space to pass the bus and tuck back into my lane with the bus stopped at the stop, but because it took off while I was next to it, I was stranded unable to pull back into my lane, and unable to pull back behind the bus due to other traffic. I had to go right over to the other side of the road and whiz past the traffic island and out of the way before being run into by traffic coming the other direction. Completely the bus driver's fault.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Dr_Mutley » Fri May 31, 2013 12:45 am

TigerFilly wrote:I avoid them mostly because I have shared path to ride on almost the entire way to work, BUT...
the other day when I was driving to work, I had pulled out, just over the centre line, to pass a bus which was stopped at a bus stop, and when I was already next to the bus it suddenly pulled out and took off. There was a traffic island just past where the bus was stopped. I would have had just nice space to pass the bus and tuck back into my lane with the bus stopped at the stop, but because it took off while I was next to it, I was stranded unable to pull back into my lane, and unable to pull back behind the bus due to other traffic. I had to go right over to the other side of the road and whiz past the traffic island and out of the way before being run into by traffic coming the other direction. Completely the bus driver's fault.


I'm sure they would argue differently, and as stupid as it is, u may find to the letter of the law they are entitled to?
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Summernight » Fri May 31, 2013 10:23 am

Dr_Mutley wrote:
TigerFilly wrote:I avoid them mostly because I have shared path to ride on almost the entire way to work, BUT...
the other day when I was driving to work, I had pulled out, just over the centre line, to pass a bus which was stopped at a bus stop, and when I was already next to the bus it suddenly pulled out and took off. There was a traffic island just past where the bus was stopped. I would have had just nice space to pass the bus and tuck back into my lane with the bus stopped at the stop, but because it took off while I was next to it, I was stranded unable to pull back into my lane, and unable to pull back behind the bus due to other traffic. I had to go right over to the other side of the road and whiz past the traffic island and out of the way before being run into by traffic coming the other direction. Completely the bus driver's fault.


I'm sure they would argue differently, and as stupid as it is, u may find to the letter of the law they are entitled to?


The bus still has to indicate and look before pulling out. If someone is beside the bus when the bus decides to do so the bus would still have to give way to the car. It would only be a car behind that would need to give way to the bus entering back into traffic.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Dr_Mutley » Fri May 31, 2013 10:37 am

Summernight wrote:
Dr_Mutley wrote:
TigerFilly wrote:I avoid them mostly because I have shared path to ride on almost the entire way to work, BUT...
the other day when I was driving to work, I had pulled out, just over the centre line, to pass a bus which was stopped at a bus stop, and when I was already next to the bus it suddenly pulled out and took off. There was a traffic island just past where the bus was stopped. I would have had just nice space to pass the bus and tuck back into my lane with the bus stopped at the stop, but because it took off while I was next to it, I was stranded unable to pull back into my lane, and unable to pull back behind the bus due to other traffic. I had to go right over to the other side of the road and whiz past the traffic island and out of the way before being run into by traffic coming the other direction. Completely the bus driver's fault.


I'm sure they would argue differently, and as stupid as it is, u may find to the letter of the law they are entitled to?


The bus still has to indicate and look before pulling out. If someone is beside the bus when the bus decides to do so the bus would still have to give way to the car. It would only be a car behind that would need to give way to the bus entering back into traffic.


Yep, and it ends up he says, she says...
I'm sure the very diligent bus driver would've indicated and checked for traffic ;-)
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Summernight » Fri May 31, 2013 10:44 am

Dr_Mutley wrote:Yep, and it ends up he says, she says...
I'm sure the very diligent bus driver would've indicated and checked for traffic ;-)


They are amazingly diligent like that, aren't they? :mrgreen: </ sarcasm>
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby alex » Fri May 31, 2013 5:43 pm

is it even the 'law' that you have to give way to a bus pulling out of wherever they stop?

i was under the impression there was a big media fuss about it but it was just a sticker on the back of the bus
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby boyracer » Fri May 31, 2013 6:07 pm

At least it is great for your sideways bunnyhop practice....
Well for all the good it will do reporting it...
Tried that path, a complete and utter waste of your time.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Mulger bill » Fri May 31, 2013 11:27 pm

Dr_Mutley wrote:Yep, and it ends up he says, she says...
I'm sure the very diligent bus driver would've indicated and checked for traffic ;-)


And pulled out regardless.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Biffidus » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:05 am

alex wrote:is it even the 'law' that you have to give way to a bus pulling out of wherever they stop?

i was under the impression there was a big media fuss about it but it was just a sticker on the back of the bus

It is covered under the Federal Road Rules - you are required to give way to a bus that is in front of you, has the "give way to buses" sign and is entering your lane, No mention of indicating! I'm told that buses are a lot more aggressive about this in Sydney and Melbourne.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby alex » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:03 pm

ok cool that makes sense, if there is any vehicle in front of me with an indicator on then i will let them in... it is funny that there was some need to legislate against 'blockers' but only against buses!

all that aside, the average bus driving moron seem to think they can just pull out whenever they want without indicating and anyone who happens to be there is fair game

cant wait to hear a magistrate tell a bus driver that they have a duty of care to not kill someone that they knew was there...
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:06 pm

alex wrote:
cant wait to hear a magistrate tell a bus driver that they have a duty of care to not kill someone that they knew was there...


I'm not holding my breath for that one.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby jcjordan » Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:25 pm

Biffidus wrote:
alex wrote:is it even the 'law' that you have to give way to a bus pulling out of wherever they stop?

i was in under the impression there was a big media fuss about it but it was just a sticker on the back of the bus

It is covered under the Federal Road Rules - you are required to give way to a bus that is in front of you, has the "give way to buses" sign and is entering your lane, No mention of indicating! I'm told that buses are a lot more aggressive about this in Sydney and Melbourne.

The bus is required is provided the minimum indication prior to moving but once they have indicated (about 5 flashes) appropriately than they have right of way.

I worked with someone who got so fed up with the buses here in the ACT that he started sending all the vision to the police and logded a complaint. The bus company got a bit worried by this as they had a number of drivers receive formal warnings and a couple of traffic infringements were issued. They asked him to stop going straight to the police and come to them first.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Jonboy » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:39 pm

I ride into the city two or three times a week from Prospect. The most dangerous part is King William St between The parade ground and North Terrace. After a couple of close calls earlier this year when buses have pulled out when I've been halfway down their length, thus forcing me to brake or swerve, I was hit by a bus just before North terrace, fortunately only cuts and bruises. same thing, not checking his mirrors for my bright flashing headlight, or perhaps just ignoring me. one less middle aged cyclist to worry about.
Now I avoid King William St, Frome has a cycle/pedestrian lane. I also avoid Grenfell and Currie, between the insane bus drivers and the pedestrian who run across the crossings regardless of the lights, its a dangerous place for cyclists. only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt or worse.
Our cause is not helped by cyclists who ride through red lights. this really infuriates some drivers. If you do this, please think twice as it might save a few seconds but it is wrong, dangerous and damages our cause.

Perhaps we should lobby the state Govt to adopt the Dutch model. That is, if a vehicle hits a cyclist, regardless of the circumstances, the driver is deemed to be 100% at fault. They do tend to watch out for us.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Summernight » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:44 pm

jcjordan wrote:The bus is required is provided the minimum indication prior to moving but once they have indicated (about 5 flashes) appropriately than they have right of way.

I worked with someone who got so fed up with the buses here in the ACT that he started sending all the vision to the police and logded a complaint. The bus company got a bit worried by this as they had a number of drivers receive formal warnings and a couple of traffic infringements were issued. They asked him to stop going straight to the police and come to them first.


Good on him! The fact that they asked him to go to them first made me laugh. It's not as if he is obliged to do so...
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby jcjordan » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:14 am

Summernight wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The bus is required is provided the minimum indication prior to moving but once they have indicated (about 5 flashes) appropriately than they have right of way.

I worked with someone who got so fed up with the buses here in the ACT that he started sending all the vision to the police and logded a complaint. The bus company got a bit worried by this as they had a number of drivers receive formal warnings and a couple of traffic infringements were issued. They asked him to stop going straight to the police and come to them first.


Good on him! The fact that they asked him to go to them first made me laugh. It's not as if he is obliged to do so...

They were trying to minimise the exposure as they were required to formally report on all police inquires but could brush of one's that came straight in.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Biffidus » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:29 pm

jcjordan wrote:
Biffidus wrote:It is covered under the Federal Road Rules - you are required to give way to a bus that is in front of you, has the "give way to buses" sign and is entering your lane, No mention of indicating! I'm told that buses are a lot more aggressive about this in Sydney and Melbourne.

The bus is required is provided the minimum indication prior to moving but once they have indicated (about 5 flashes) appropriately than they have right of way.

True that, it's hard to know when they are going to pull out if they don't indicate. I hope I don't ever have to argue that one in court.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby rustychisel » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:38 pm

WOOOHOOOO - RESULT

One bus driver issued with a TIN, about $400 fine, 3 points and a very roughly felt collar.

Investigation, CCTV footage from onboard bus bearing out my statement in detail, bus driver interviewed. So perish all enemies of the ride.

I'll post my original complaint/statement once this is done and dusted.
Last edited by rustychisel on Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Dr_Mutley » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:00 pm

rustychisel wrote:WOOOHOOOO - RESULT

One bus driving issued with a TIN, about $400 fine, 3 points and a very roughly felt collar.

Investigation, CCTV footage from onboard bus bearing out my statement in detail, bus driver interviewed. So perish all enemies of the ride.

I'll post my original complaint/statement once this is done and dusted.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:58 pm

Keep us up to date Mr W
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby rustychisel » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:42 pm

Oh, indeed I can, Mr B.

Went in this afternoon to view the onboard CCTV (at my request). Bendy buses have at least 6 cameras and the latest have excellent audio. I was told before watching that the footage bore out my complaint almost exactly.

In his interview the bus driver maintained that he'd slammed his window on me and refused to discuss matters because he'd received a mouthful of verbal. The investigating police officer was able to tell him that was not borne out by the video, that the video showed an offense being committed in any case. He was, apparently, asked if he wished to see the video and he refused (probably had already viewed it and realised the jig was up).

The bus driver also claimed he hadn't seen me (I was stationary and directly in front of him claiming the lane at North Tce and East Tce), then claimed he didn't realise he was cutting me off (the video shows him watching his work quite carefully in his mirrors) and that he'd been driving buses for 25 years. In that case, he should do better. I trust he will in the future. He almost killed me.

The investigating police officer has been brilliant, diligent, and kept me up to date with proceeding all the way. Brilliant.

Here's the incident report that started it all.... I'll point out if the driver concerned had opened his window and said 'sorry mate, didn't realise how fast you were going' then that would have been an end to it. I'd have told him to be more careful and moved on. He deserves this outcome; hope he owns it.

One other thing, I claimed the possibility of a 'punishment pass': having been through the footage I can see that's not the case, it was more likely really poor driving and lack of judgement. There was other traffic in front (as I was alongside and being forced off the road) which I couldn't see.

THE STATEMENT



Thursday 30 May

Incident details

Vehicle: public transport Metro Bus (Serco?) extended bus (‘bendy bus’) on Route No. M44, vehicle ID number 1114.

Location & time: 9.51am Thursday 30 May, on North Terrace Adelaide, travelling West from Botanic Road and adjacent Ayers House.

I was cycling into the city (an every day commuter) on Botanic Road and North Terrace. I was in primary position at the traffic intersection of East Terrace and North Terrace, heading west, waiting for traffic lights to change.

As I pulled away from the intersection the vehicle came from behind, straddling lanes and passing me so closely that I was concerned for my safety. The driver then ‘pulled in’ to the left most lane, which I was occupying, before even half the vehicle had overtaken me.

Was the vehicle too close? As I was by that time alarmed and fearful for my safety – being squeezed off the road into parked cars, I was able reach across with my right arm and hit the side of the bus as it continued to squeeze me off the road. The first time I hit it twice on the mid point doors, then second twice on the rear left flank. Both occasions I suspect were clearly audible to passengers on the bus. The vehicle was within 300mm of my right elbow travelling at approximately 35 - 40kmh.

It is my opinion that this was a clear and deliberate ‘punishment pass’ ie bullying behaviour from the driver of a large cumbersome vehicle. His subsequent actions reinforce this belief.

The driver stopped his vehicle at the designated stop on North Terrace adjacent Frome Road; passengers were alighting, entering the bus. When I attempted to contact the driver through his window (acting calmly) he reached over and slammed the window shut (it was open a small amount, and I knocked on it). He would not look at me, he would not acknowledge me in any other way. After perhaps 5 seconds I realised I had two choices – create a scene, force him to stop and delay commuters, or make sure I had relevant details and report his actions. I rolled in front of the bus and made a note of his route and bus number.


Statement: I have been a cyclist for over 45 years; I am safe and considerate and very experienced. I commute to the city every day and it is rare in the extreme to be subject to such poor judgement on the roads. I am not vexatious and do not undertake this lightly. In my opinion the driver of this vehicle acted with appalling disregard for my safety, drove with a reckless and bullying intent, and is likely not a fit and proper person to be in control of such a vehicle. I am willing to appear in court to give witness.


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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:06 am

A good outcome Rusty. I like your letter of complaint, stating what happened without getting emotional, glad to see it was acted upon in the correct way.
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:01 pm

Sorry if I missed this, bit what's the outcome? Did he get the ass?
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Re: Adel commuters - BEWARE bus drivers

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:02 pm

Whoops stoopid me! TIN! Which I even quoted above! Seems I shouldn't drive buses either with that lack of observation skills ;-)
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