Caught by crossing the red lightGot the ticket today. Help

chrishang
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Caught by crossing the red lightGot the ticket today. Help

Postby chrishang » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:50 pm

On last Wednesday, my computer at work crashed and I had to spend a lot of time to back up the data from the crashed HDD which gave me a bad motion. Called the wife who has been pregnant for 7 months and was told that she was hungry and didn't want to eat any junk food. It was already 7:30pm. So jumped on my bike and heading home. At the last traffice light, it was red. I stopped. After all the cars on that direction passed, and I have made sure there is no on coming vechile on that direction. I proceeded when the facing light was still red. Unfortunately there were two cops beside me who stopped me on the road and took all the notes. Got the ticked today. It is a $239 penalty plus 3 points. At that site, after the polices left, I met two Aussie girls who said that they never heard such things. Neither do I. They suggested me to apply for a warning instead of having a ticket directly. This is my first time to have a traffic infringement notice. I am wondering whether I can do something avoid this penalty. Could you please help me on this issue? Thanks.

After that, I asked my mates and got the same answer that they would do in the way what I did. And this morning, on the way to gave my wife a lift to the work, I saw 4 persons crossed the red light.

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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:04 pm

In NSW there is a maximum fine for bicycle offences that is considerbly less than what you have been fined. It may be worth determining if there is a differentiation between bicycles and cars in ACT.

Is there a reason why you were required to go thru the red light, such as that the lights did not register your bicycle and would not change?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Postby chrishang » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:17 pm

mikesbytes wrote:In NSW there is a maximum fine for bicycle offences that is considerbly less than what you have been fined. It may be worth determining if there is a differentiation between bicycles and cars in ACT.

Is there a reason why you were required to go thru the red light, such as that the lights did not register your bicycle and would not change?


Thanks for your reply.

I thought there would be a differentiation between bicycles and cars in ACT. But I have no way to access such infos. And from the ticket, it turns out that there is no differentiation between bicycles and cars. What a system in ACT. If you have any idea about how to find that kind of info, please let me know.

Well, I just started to ride a bike these days when we moved close to my work place. The road I was on is a quite busy road during rush times. I always ride the bike close the left kerb. By doing that, there is no way for my bike be registered by the lights. But there are cars beside me which has been registered. So I am pretty sure that the light would turn to green. Based on that, I guess there is no such reason for me to go through the red light. But as I just started to ride the bike recently. I did see a lot of people doing that before. So I just took it granted that that it was OK to cross the red light by bike when it was safe.

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Postby europa » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:04 pm

Sadly mate, you are required to obey the road rules like everyone else and if you get pinged, bad luck. Hell of a fine though, especially for a first offence. If the cops were next to you, they would have been able to see the circumstances but really, it's no excuse in the eyes of the law, only in the eyes of the officer writing the ticket - running a red light is running a red light.

Bummer :cry:

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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:54 pm

What a load of rubbish to get hit by 3 penalty points on your drivers license! The fine may be appropriate for disobeying the traffic signal, but point deduction? I'd say that you should go and talk to your state's motoring organization for assistance. They typically have a legal department for exactly this type of things.

Some young or bored cops are just pathetically incompetent of the rules and incapable of making an objective judgement (guess why there's a court system). I remember some years back a car turned right from the left lane cutting right in front of me travelling in the right lane. Yep, I couldn't stop in time and T-boned that car. The young constables who showed up gave me the ticket as I was behind despite my protests. NRMA gave me the legal assistance to overturned that ticket.

Good luck!

Reminds me, I won't carry my DL in my jersey pocket in future. I'll just say that I am a cycling convert if ever I get caught in a similar situation. :roll:
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:05 pm

I didn't read your origional post well enough. You are not required to have a license to ride a bicycle. A bicycle infringment does one result in loss of points off your drivers license.

If you lost your drivers license or never had one, would the be deducting points off it ?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Postby LuckyPierre » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:40 pm

To be honest - I think that you're st*ffed, but it is worth considering the Application for the Withdrawal of a Traffic Infringement Notice process that you can find by following the ACT Policing - Paying Traffic Fines link on this page. You'll probably have to scroll down a bit to find it, as the screen appeared to be blank when I went to the ACT Policing page. There is a chance that the notice will be withdrawn, but expect a caution at least. I wouldn't consider disputing the notice as I think you have very limited chance of succeeding and you would be liable for Court costs if you lost the dispute.
It's a pity that you didn't see the Police, but it was a pretty silly thing to do. I can say that, because I don't do it (even if it means pressing the pedestrian crossing button to get the lights to change). That said, I do roll through red lights at T junctions where I don't have to cross traffic - and that is just as illegal! :oops:

chrishang wrote:I thought there would be a differentiation between bicycles and cars in ACT. But I have no way to access such infos. And from the ticket, it turns out that there is no differentiation between bicycles and cars. What a system in ACT. If you have any idea about how to find that kind of info, please let me know.

The link that I've given you (which took less than a minute to find) should give you a good starting point to all sorts of information regarding traffic regulations and infringements - and if you're using this forum, you have the means of accessing it.

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Postby AUbicycles » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:39 pm

That sounds like hard luck. I think the only chance you may have had was if the light was turning from green to orange to red and because of your speed you can't make it over quick enough. Despite bike riders going through red lights, you are still not allowed to do it. If you get off the bike and walk over as a pedestrian you can in theory still get fined however you are no longer a vehicle. Unfortunately it seems as though the police were right, you could try following it up but it may end up costing more effort and time than is worth it.

I would instead recommend patience.. not very much fun, but the roads are an aggressive place nowdays with car drivers impatient and furious. If the car drivers see how relaxed the bike riders are, a few may come and join us :) ....sure it's wishful thinking. I practice my trackstands at lights and imagine that the car driver are thinking 'wow, isn't that fantastic'.

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Postby chrishang » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:57 pm

Thanks guys for your kind suggestion. I certainly had a good lesson about this type of thing. Other people are doing the thing like this doesn't mean I can do the thing as they are doing. I got a feeling that I was always spied by the God as I can remeber from my childhood I have been caught for several times by just following other people's way. :(

peterrjleach wrote:The link that I've given you (which took less than a minute to find) should give you a good starting point to all sorts of information regarding traffic regulations and infringements - and if you're using this forum, you have the means of accessing it.


I did find the the link and also find other information. But the only thing I can't find is which of the following rules should be applied to my case,

1) proceed before allowed (red bicycle crossing light) which is only $51 fine and no points would be deducted from the DL. (Road Transport (Offences) Regulation 2005, Schedule 1, part 1.2, Page 73)This rule is most suitable for my case which I can find though the red light is not a bicycle crossing light.

2) proceed when traffic light red which is clear stated on the infringement notice (Road Transport (Offences) Regulation 2005, Schedule 1, part 1.2, Page 23) which is $239 fine and 3 points would be deducted from the DL. By doing that, the cyclist is treated as a car driver.

There is no clear rule for bicycle proceeds when traffic light red under Road Transport (Offences) Regulation 2005. That's what I am trying to find and seek for the help from you guys.

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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:11 pm

peterrjleach wrote:That said, I do roll through red lights at T junctions where I don't have to cross traffic - and that is just as illegal! :oops:

I have this problem with my early morning route too. Anaerobically going up this significant hill (Lilyfield Rd) and suddenly stopping at the traffic light as it crests and wait for a left hand turn is the last thing I can do. Fortunately it's a low traffic area. But yes, I do feel guilty for not obeying the lights, especially when there are responsible bike commuters at the stop line waiting to cross to the other side. :oops:
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prove it

Postby jimmy » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:42 pm

thats some bad luck mate, i've been ride like a crazzy child for years and never been looked at twice.

ask the cops to prove that you rode through the light, if they can you may as well just pay the fine but if they have no hard evidence you can claim they are biest against bike riders and perhaps negotiate to have the charges droped or reduced (e.g keep your points).
just an idea mate.

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Postby vic » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:16 am

Sorry to read about your stiff fine and points deduction. It doesn't sound fair. But I am also thankful for the warning. I have been blatantly flaunting the lights in Canberra, wondering if cops actually worry about that sort of thing. it appears they do. So I suspect I will probably start to obey them now, thanks for the warning, you've probably also saved me from having a prang as well!

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Re: prove it

Postby thomas_cho » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:48 am

jimmy wrote:thats some bad luck mate, i've been ride like a crazzy child for years and never been looked at twice.

ask the cops to prove that you rode through the light, if they can you may as well just pay the fine but if they have no hard evidence you can claim they are biest against bike riders and perhaps negotiate to have the charges droped or reduced (e.g keep your points).
just an idea mate.


If you want to be given the same rights as any other vehicle on the road, then you'd better start obeying the laws of the road. Riding like a "crazy child" just gives cyclists a bad name.

Cops biased against bike riders? The original posters said that the two cops were beside him when he ran the red light.

Jimmy just because you have not been cautioned, or caught does not make what you are doing right.

I want to return home safely from all my rides, and cant see how blatantly flouting road rules will help me achieve that.

Ride safely.

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Warning: long diatribe from an old fart....

Postby eucryphia » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:07 pm

When I was at ANU in the early 80's, I lived on-campus, and rode to the Shop-Rite that was down near Glebe Park several times a week.

The traffic was probably a tenth of what it is these days. When crossing Northbourne Avenue (a divided road with two sets of lights) if there was a red light and no cars around, I would just ride through. In those days you could wait an entire lights cycle with no cars passing through. After about 2 years of doing this, one day a motorcycle policeman caught me and pulled me over, quite agressively questioned me about my identity, where I lived and issued a fine. (There wasn't a lot of love lost between the police and students in those days. Not helped by the behaviour of a minority of students)

I maintained a polite and very contrite attitude throughout, at one point I was asked why I rode through the red lights, I thought about it for a while and said "I thought it was safe to do so", I'm not sure if that changed anything, but I never received the ticket.

I have a lot of sympathy for the police, they attend lots of bad accidents with mangled young bodies and cop a lot of abuse for their efforts. I get angry with my kids when I see them doing something dangerous, I guess it's the same thing with the police.

Those not familiar with Canberra should note that the standard of driving, though improving, is appalling; tailgating, speeding, deliberate discourtesy and running of red lights is very common. When there is an accident, it will involve several cars because they were all tailgating. They drive faster in the wet. In heavy traffic, drivers will deliberately move left to block a cycle lane to stop cyclists from passing. In heavy traffic, when the lights turn green you have to wait a few seconds for the speeding red-light runners to come through. Only recently have they learnt how to 'zipper' at merging lanes.

I also believe the ACT introduced a law recent'y requiring cyclists to dismount at pedestrian crossings unless there is a special green cyclists light, I've never seen one. Hundreds of cyclists in Canberra break this law daily.

Welcome to the creeping 'Nanny State'...

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Postby twowheels » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:42 pm

Funny thing is, think of the number of people who get into cycling because they lose their licence, thus unable to drive a car. Yet if you ride a bike with no car licence, there are no demerits to lose.

Further what of people who ride a bike when drunk rather than drive their car. Again they can be fined & lose car licence demerit points for trying to do the "right thing".

Pragmatic court solution to a bike not registering traffic lights may be to dismount & walk the bike across the road as a pedestrian, beyong the J walking zone of course!

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Postby brakepad » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:32 pm

Sorry to hear about the hefty fine and loss of points.

I was going across a pedestrian crossing and while going across the lanes the lights changed for the oncoming traffic........ it was either pedal as fast as I could or wait on the divider. The first car I went passed was a police car. They pulled me over and asked me if I realize I had done a stupid thing...of course I had to agree. They let me off with a warning. I then did some research and the rules for cyclists and motor vehicles are the same, and points lost even if you don't have a license are valid for the same amount of time, so you could get a license and automatically be down 3 points.

A lot of us complain about car drivers being impatient.....you can see that you did not save yourself any time by going through the lights, and maybe you also upset some car drivers.

Be safe.

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Re: prove it

Postby tallywhacker » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:19 pm

We (cyclists) cant complain about car drivers breaking the rules and doing stupid things if we break the same rules and then whinge and whine about being caught.
You want to ride on the road then abide by the rules that apply to all road users.

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Re: Warning: long diatribe from an old fart....

Postby thomas_cho » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:25 am

eucryphia wrote:Those not familiar with Canberra should note that the standard of driving, though improving, is appalling; tailgating, speeding, deliberate discourtesy and running of red lights is very common.


Well I did get chips thrown at me. Also some youths in a commodore decided to throw a beer bottle at my ass, while whizzing along at 80km/h.

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Re: prove it

Postby Kalgrm » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:31 pm

tallywhacker wrote:We (cyclists) cant complain about car drivers breaking the rules and doing stupid things if we break the same rules and then whinge and whine about being caught.
You want to ride on the road then abide by the rules that apply to all road users.

+1

(Old thread now, but since it was reactivated, I'll chime in anyway.)
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Re: Warning: long diatribe from an old fart....

Postby Sia » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:01 pm

eucryphia wrote:I also believe the ACT introduced a law recent'y requiring cyclists to dismount at pedestrian crossings unless there is a special green cyclists light, I've never seen one. Hundreds of cyclists in Canberra break this law daily.

Welcome to the creeping 'Nanny State'...


Thanks for heads up about this new law.

I've seen one of two of those cyclists lights. The new intersection of Belconnen way and Gungahlin drive has one. But what I don't get is that the timing for them is exactly the same as the pedestrian lights :?

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Postby timbo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:38 am

As far as I was aware, it has always been law (in NSW at least) for cyclists to dismount at a pedestrian crossing (at least the ones with stripes painted across the road), as they after all are for pedestrians and cyclists are classed as motorists.
When it comes to electronic ones at traffic lights, most in Sydney have pedestrians and cyclists all able to cross together for the same amount of time.

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Postby pm0203 » Thu May 08, 2008 10:27 am

Regarding registering the lights to change there is a simple trick that works.

If the road is clear of cars, and therefore nothing to trip the lights then do an S swerve over all 4 pressure plates but only at the tip of each coner to gain maximum weight on each pressure plate.

Always works for me but I weigh 83kg.

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Postby sogood » Thu May 08, 2008 11:04 am

There are pressure plates? I thought it's all by EM sensors.
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Postby eucryphia » Thu May 08, 2008 8:08 pm

I thought they were coils that detected metal.

I couldn't get the work's carpark roller door to trigger and was told by a technician not to ride in the middle, but at the extreme ends of the sensor rectangle. Works a treat !

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Postby Mulger bill » Sat May 10, 2008 8:38 pm

You'll always stand a better chance at inductive loops if you park or move over a corner or junction in the loop. Got it off google somewhere... one of the how stuff works pages :?

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