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Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:27 pm
by Ross
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/lo ... 11078.aspx

Northbourne bikes set to go off-road
BY EWA KRETOWICZASSEMBLY REPORTER
23 Apr, 2010 08:39 AM

Moving bicycles off-road on to widened footpaths is the first part of an ACT Government proposal that could see buses driving down the middle of Northbourne Avenue. :evil:

Chief Minister Jon Stanhope said $4.5million would be allocated in next month's budget to improve congestion on the capital's main thoroughfare.

''In the upcoming budget we will fund a design study on the initial set-up of developing a bus-only or transit lane on Northbourne Avenue,'' Mr Stanhope said. ''At this stage we are giving serious consideration to moving the on-road cycle paths on to the pathways, but we would reconstruct the pathways double their width if that is the decision we take.''

He said the funding was part of a sustainable transport action plan, Transport for Canberra, to make bus travel more attractive to commuters.

Currently more than 50,000 people travel on Northbourne Avenue every day.

''The possibilities are closing one of the lanes [going] either way and turning them into a transit lane. The other is to build a dedicated bus lane down the median and adopt a tidal arrangement that buses travel south in the morning and north in the evening.''

Mr Stanhope said Canberrans would be consulted before work began.

''We haven't decided on a final way forward. What we are signalling is that we intend to bite the bullet over the next one to three years ... [to] provide significantly enhanced public transport measures along Northbourne Avenue,'' Mr Stanhope said.

''I don't believe at the moment there is a way around a dedicated lane for buses, whether we build [it] on-road or whether we construct a new bus-only lane on the median.

''At this stage we have funded the design of an off-road dual shared cycleway footpath with a view to then determining how best to achieve either a single busway or an on road transit lane.''


How is this going to make bus travel any faster? They still have to stop at the traffic lights every few hundred metres the same as cars (and bicycles) do? Bus lanes work on Adelaide Ave (even though they are underutilised IMO) because there are no traffic lights between Civic and Woden. It's certainly going to slow down bicycle commuting if we have to stop for every cross street on these 'shared' paths while dodging pedestrians. I hope Pedal Power lobbies against this.

Some more discussion on RiotACT - http://the-riotact.com/?p=20598#comments

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:42 pm
by mrgolf
Ridiculous! Sharing paths will kill cycling commuting. I regularly hit 45kmh along Northbourne. How is this going to assist greener travel?

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:54 am
by gassyndrome
mrgolf wrote:Sharing paths will kill cycling commuting.....and pedestrians who often wander around in the dark drinking VB stubbies. I regularly hit 45kmh along Northbourne.


Fixed!

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:47 pm
by cp123
boo hiss!

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:56 pm
by m@
Disappointed to see the Greens supporting this pedestrianisation of cyclists, all it will achieve is strengthening the 'cyclists don't belong on the road' attitude of some motorists. Seems the ACT gov't has given up on sustainable transport :|

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:00 pm
by psike
Copenhagen style bike lane I'd support.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:14 pm
by HAKS
Found this on another forum, could be worth firing off to Mr Stanhope, Minister for Transport.....

Rotorburn wrote:Dear John,

I was glad to read in the Canberra Times, 23 April 2010, that there is thought about the way in which cyclists and buses travel Northbourne Avenue.

As you would be aware, the number of trips made by cyclists into Civic increases 64% in the past six years. Since the installation of cycle lanes on Northbourne in 2004, the number of trips on that road increased by 372.5% and riding on the roads is significantly safer for cyclists.

I am sure that your government supports cycling, especially given all the benefits associated with it, including the associated reduction in:
• transport costs - especially petrol;
• greenhouse gas emissions; and
• traffic and parking congestion.

The greatest benefit also being an increase in the health of the general population and a reduction in health problems, especially those related to obesity. Given the recent COAG focus on health reform and maximising the benefits for all Australians from the current health system, this is especially pertinent.

I note that the ACT Government’s Sustainable Transport Plan aims to more than double the proportion of journeys to work by bicycle between 2001 and 2011. A great way to met this target would be make sure that cycling is a competitive and relatively safe alternative to driving. On road cycle lanes aid in this endeavour because roads:
• have a full network coverage;
• are often more direct (and thus, quicker);
• they maintain priority at intersections;
• are lit at night; and
• are often, in better condition than shared pathways and cycle paths.

I would refer you to the ACT Department of Territory and Municipal Services' Ten year Master Plan for Trunk Cycling & Walking Path Infrastructure 2004-14. The report notes that a new off-road path, like that proposed in the Canberra times article, would cost $138,000 per Km, whilst on-road cycle lanes (where there is no widening) costs $20,000 per Km. It seems a waste to construct an new path, that would be more expensive than the current (if it was not already constructed and thus zero cost, also cheaper) alternative. In fact, it seems a double waste of taxpayers' money.

The danger in any proposal that removes on road cycle lanes and widens shared pathways on Northbourne appears to be that cyclists are expected to share a (widened) footpath with pedestrians, rather than having a dedicated lane of their own. Some riders will do this, but others will use the the fastest/most efficient route and stay on the road (where they are currently legally entitled to do), except that now there is no dedicated lane for them and they will be mingling with traffic, including buses directly. It is exactly this situation, riders on the road without dedicated lanes, that made road riding so dangerous. In ten years of 1989-1998 11 cyclists died on our roads. In next ten years that followed, 1999-2008, when on road cycle lanes were much more common, only 2 cyclists died on our roads.

Shared pathways that run along roads can in fact be more dangerous for cyclists than on road cycle lanes, as there are driveways, building entrances and walkers to avoid.

I would like to see the lane on Northbourne Avenue nearest the median being a bus only one, with incorporated stops and safe passages for pedestrians to access them and the retention the current on road dedicated cycle commuting lanes. This seems the most effective, efficient and intelligent solution to ensure that cycling and public transport increasingly become competitive and safe alternative to travelling by cars.

Yours sincerely,

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:35 pm
by twizzle

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:18 pm
by psike
Response from Stanhope was a stock standard "we're looking into this, thanks for your email" style message.

Part of the response I received from the Green's included below, at least they clearly read the e-mail and responded to specific points I raised.

I was probably as shocked as you when Mr Stanhope said that he wanted to
ban bikes from Northbourne Avenue. FYI I am a regular Northbourne
Avenue bike commuter using the on-road bike lane. I totally agree with
your comments re shared paths and in fact said that and more (lack of
right of way on drive ways and intersections) in an interview on Win TV
the day Mr Stanhope's announcement came out. Win TV chose not to run
that however.

What the Greens want to see is better bike provision for Northbourne
Avenue. We have suggested one option being a bike path in the median
strip but this would not replace the existing on-road lane.
"Copenhagen" style bike lanes would also be a good idea.


I suggest people contact Stanhope and the ACT Govt and voice your opinion.

Russ

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:37 pm
by nescius


Ah yes, the same tired old arguments that they bring out every time, what a bunch of crybabies. Can't say I've ever had a problem with a cyclist on the road whilst driving, but then I'm usually concentrating on what I'm doing, not listening to my ipod while sending a text message and eating a bowl of cereal (yes I saw a woman driving her car eating a bowl of cereal the other day, milk and everything) :roll:

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 5:44 pm
by Fletcher


I did, and I think about 25% of my brain just fell out of my ears.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 6:45 pm
by Bantam Roosta
Yeah, I'm a regular Northbourne commuter and not too happy about the situation. What I'm not sure about is what exactly they mean when they say they want to get rid of the bike lanes. What are they going to use the space for? They aren't wide enough to put another lane in. I can't really see the point.

If they do get rid of the bike lanes, can we just ride in the car lane and annoy more people? It wouldn't really solve much then would it?

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:41 am
by twizzle
The "I'm Stanhope and I run it my way" idea is to close the cycle lanes and have the left lane dedicated for buses, and widen the footpath and have cyclists off the road. Of course... legally, I think we then just ride in the middle lane. That will impress the drivers. :roll: But... that would be safer than what we are doing now. There have been a number of occasions where I've been moving up the traffic towards a red light when it's gone green and cars have turned across the cycle lane without indicating or looking.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:45 am
by TheSkyMovesSideways
twizzle wrote:There have been a number of occasions where I've been moving up the traffic towards a red light when it's gone green and cars have turned across the cycle lane without indicating or looking.

If you're coming up behind them and they're turning left, you're obligated to give way to them.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:56 am
by twizzle
TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:
twizzle wrote:There have been a number of occasions where I've been moving up the traffic towards a red light when it's gone green and cars have turned across the cycle lane without indicating or looking.

If you're coming up behind them and they're turning left, you're obligated to give way to them.


:roll:

NO. They are crossing a special lane (in this case a cycle lane) and are required to give way to the cyclist.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:34 pm
by TheSkyMovesSideways
I wouldn't bet on that to prevent a collision, or to protect you if they do turn left.

The road rules (Part 11, Div 3, 141(2)) say, "The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal." Given that, and the fact that bike lanes are not usually marked through intersection, I don't think it's at all clear that you have right of way.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:38 pm
by twizzle
TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:I wouldn't bet on that to prevent a collision, or to protect you if they do turn left.

The road rules (Part 11, Div 3, 141(2)) say, "The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal." Given that, and the fact that bike lanes are not usually marked through intersection, I don't think it's at all clear that you have right of way.



That's when a bicycle is in the same lane as a car, not when the bicycle is in it's own lane. The whole of Northbourne is fully marked.

And no, I don't expect drivers to do the correct thing.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:28 pm
by mrgolf
If they go and it makes it harder for cyclists to commute efficiently, wont it just cause more congestion when cyclists get back in their cars? These idiots should have a think about the consequences of their prejudices.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:47 pm
by twizzle
mrgolf wrote:If they go and it makes it harder for cyclists to commute efficiently, wont it just cause more congestion when cyclists get back in their cars? These idiots should have a think about the consequences of their prejudices.


I had to drive to Fyshwick today. 50 f'in minutes from Spence. I can ride to Hume in 45!

If we decide (cyclists of Canberra, that is) to have a "day of action", we should all drive in to Civic at 6:30am and fill the carparks on London Circuit and then bus-off for the rest of the day. I think people will get the hint when they are short a few hundred parking spaces.

PS - I'm ahead of you again on BJ. :)

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 10:36 pm
by psike
I hope people are mailing stanhope to register objections. The Greens have clarified their position, they are pro-on road cycling lanes. Please take a moment and email your MLAs and put pressure on them now.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:56 am
by mrgolf
twizzle wrote:
mrgolf wrote:If they go and it makes it harder for cyclists to commute efficiently, wont it just cause more congestion when cyclists get back in their cars? These idiots should have a think about the consequences of their prejudices.


I had to drive to Fyshwick today. 50 f'in minutes from Spence. I can ride to Hume in 45!

If we decide (cyclists of Canberra, that is) to have a "day of action", we should all drive in to Civic at 6:30am and fill the carparks on London Circuit and then bus-off for the rest of the day. I think people will get the hint when they are short a few hundred parking spaces.

PS - I'm ahead of you again on BJ. :)


I like the idea.

As for BJ, my roadie is derailleur hanger-less. No fair. Im calling shenanigans. I have been stuck on my MTB which is much harder to cover kms on.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:02 pm
by ifixbikes
This is a bit of a joke. Was only a couple of years ago that they spent all the money improving the northborne cycle lanes.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:51 pm
by ciaran
mrgolf wrote:
twizzle wrote:
mrgolf wrote:If they go and it makes it harder for cyclists to commute efficiently, wont it just cause more congestion when cyclists get back in their cars? These idiots should have a think about the consequences of their prejudices.


I had to drive to Fyshwick today. 50 f'in minutes from Spence. I can ride to Hume in 45!

If we decide (cyclists of Canberra, that is) to have a "day of action", we should all drive in to Civic at 6:30am and fill the carparks on London Circuit and then bus-off for the rest of the day. I think people will get the hint when they are short a few hundred parking spaces.

PS - I'm ahead of you again on BJ. :)


I like the idea.

As for BJ, my roadie is derailleur hanger-less. No fair. Im calling shenanigans. I have been stuck on my MTB which is much harder to cover kms on.


pfft, do a ghetto-spec ss conversion and bypass the RD. :) DO IT

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:34 am
by mrgolf
Yeah, I could use my Surly Singleator and hang it from my derailleur hange.... oh yeah... :( Wouldnt mind a carbon SS build, though. You gotta help me out with finding a decent frame. What do you make of the cheapies on Cell and Wiggle?

Back on topic, ACT Govt blows.

Re: Northbourne Ave bike lanes set to go

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:15 pm
by ciaran
Mongoose Maurice. Simple cr-mo frame, good geo to ride for ss training or full on track racing. I know it can do fast times on the track from personal experience. The motor was the only restriction in speed, not the chassis. :)