Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby bpmhigh » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:38 pm

I was hit this morning heading north on Northbourne - corner of Barry drive.

Was hammering from a standing start at London Circuit lights to get the Barry drive lights. Got to Barry Drive doing about 40kmh and the car next to me turned left (without indicating) - I had come up quickly from behind and was at his passenger door at the time.

I cartwheeled over the bonnet and landed on my shoulder and face. After dusting myself off, I was surrounded by what felt like 100 witnesses all attempting to render assistance. The driver and his wife were shattered and very apologetic and gave me their details (They were out of towners)

A big thank you to:

* The bloke who got my bike off the road
* The lady who produced a roll of toilet paper from her bag to stem the blood flow (talk about prepared..!)
* The lady who phoned an ambulance (I convinced the operator that it wasn't needed)
* To the chap who witnessed it, took photos of the car, and gave me his contact details.
* The lady who took me into her building and to the changerooms to clean myself up.

The damage is a chipped tooth, two stiches in my lip, torn ligaments in my AC joint , and a pair of wobbly Mavic Ksyriums.

The lesson is never (EVER!) approach a car from behind on the left if there is an impending option to turn left.

With regards to blame, I'll take slightly more than half.

Be careful out there!
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by BNA » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:10 pm

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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby MaximumINC » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Hey mate, that's no good about the crash - sounds like you copped a fair bit of damage.

Great to see all the assistance being shown to help you out.

Hope you mend up quick!
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby HAKS » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:34 pm

Glad you are ok. Seemed like a heap of bicycle accidents this week. Most mornings heard something on the radio about someone been down
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:47 pm

That sucks! I hope your rehab isn't too painful. Heal well.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby wombatK » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:58 pm

bpmhigh wrote:
The lesson is never (EVER!) approach a car from behind on the left if there is an impending option to turn left.

With regards to blame, I'll take slightly more than half.

It's a hard way to learn a lesson. But you're right - assuming the worst options will be taken by motorists is a
sensible defensive strategy.

Nevertheless, cyclists are entitled to pass a vehicle on the left, provided it is not indicating a left hand turn. If the vehicle was not signaling a left turn, prior to you losing view of his left indicator, the motorist was 100% at fault for not giving proper indication; flicking it on at the last second or two isn't good enough either. So you may be entitled to a claim on this 3rd party insurance. Especially if the witnesses could give evidence of the indicator not being used correctly.

If he was indicating left and you overtook him on the left in spite of it, you'd be entirely at fault (not just half).
Including responsible for any damage to his vehicle.

Hope it's the former not the latter, and that you recover from your injuries quickly.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby trailgumby » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:13 pm

+1 to wombatK's assessment.

Get that AC joint looked at by a physio.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby ft_critical » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:55 pm

wombatK wrote:Nevertheless, cyclists are entitled to pass a vehicle on the left, provided it is not indicating a left hand turn. If the vehicle was not signaling a left turn, prior to you losing view of his left indicator, the motorist was 100% at fault for not giving proper indication; flicking it on at the last second or two isn't good enough either.



Are you kidding? I am sorry WombatK that is the most disingenuous statement I have ever seen posted. I cannot believe you posted it. So the RTA in NSW says:

"You may overtake on the left of stopped and slow moving vehicles."

This makes sense, but riding up the side of a car at 40kmh you deserve what you get for your arrogance. Sorry to the OP I do hope you get better.

Sorry, I can't believe anyone rides up the side of cars at that speed, secondly I can't believe anyone actually condones it. I am really disappointed.

Gumby, you are supposed to have learned your lesson by now, you shouldn't be supporting this attitude either.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby wombatK » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:07 pm

ft_critical wrote:
wombatK wrote:Nevertheless, cyclists are entitled to pass a vehicle on the left, provided it is not indicating a left hand turn. If the vehicle was not signaling a left turn, prior to you losing view of his left indicator, the motorist was 100% at fault for not giving proper indication; flicking it on at the last second or two isn't good enough either.



Are you kidding? I am sorry WombatK that is the most disingenuous statement I have ever seen posted. I cannot believe you posted it. So the RTA in NSW says:

"You may overtake on the left of stopped and slow moving vehicles."


Not kidding, and I mean it with all sincerity - there is nothing disingenuous about it. There is a possibility the OP's
riding was perfectly legal and the motorists not so.

Don't know where you got your RTA quote from. Here is the relevant law
Australian Road Rules, Rule 141 wrote:141 No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless:
(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the
left of the vehicle; or
(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U–turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of
direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle; or
(c) the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Bicycle, centre of the road, marked lane, multi-lane road, overtake, right change of direction signal and U–turn are defined in
the dictionary.
(2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left
change of direction signal.
(3) In this rule:
turning right does not include making a hook turn.
vehicle does not include a tram, a bus travelling along tram tracks, or any vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning
vehicle sign.

There is nothing else anywhere in the Road Rules which prohibits or restricts a cyclist
from passing on the left, nor restricts it to something as vague as slow moving vehicles.

For the record, Rule 46 stipulates the requirements for giving a left turn signal.
WombatK

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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby CommuRider » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:22 pm

Wow, glad to hear you sound all right.

bpmhigh wrote:The driver and his wife were shattered and very apologetic and gave me their details (They were out of towners)


Good.

bpmhigh wrote:A big thank you to:

* The bloke who got my bike off the road
* The lady who produced a roll of toilet paper from her bag to stem the blood flow (talk about prepared..!)
* The lady who phoned an ambulance (I convinced the operator that it wasn't needed)
* To the chap who witnessed it, took photos of the car, and gave me his contact details.
* The lady who took me into her building and to the changerooms to clean myself up.


That's a good set of witnesses. Canberrans seem to be more helpful when there's a cyclist down...as for the lady with the toilet paper - out of curiosity did you get to ask why she carries it around with her? *just curious*

bpmhigh wrote:With regards to blame, I'll take slightly more than half.


Very generous of you. Hope the ligaments heal quickly and glad that it wasn't worse.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby vinvin » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:29 pm

I have not had that many incidents in my commuting, but MOST of them have been motorists who decide to turn LEFT over the top of you (where you are going straight ahead). Even this morning I had to stick my arm in someone's face and yell out to make sure they saw me, because they were preparing to turn over me.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby ft_critical » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:36 pm

WombatK:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/downloads/safe_cycling.pdf

The law simply states that bicycles can pass on the left. The RTA qualify this here aptly entitled safe cycling.

You are another advocate of righteous over cautious. The error of your opinions will be demonstrated to you on the road if you follow your own dogma. So, luckily, no need for me to offer any further counter-point to you on this forum. Road Lore is stronger than Road Law.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby wombatK » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:49 pm

ft_critical wrote:WombatK:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/downloads/safe_cycling.pdf

The law simply states that bicycles can pass on the left. The RTA qualify this here aptly entitled safe cycling.

You are another advocate of righteous over cautious. The error of your opinions will be demonstrated to you on the road if you follow your own dogma. So, luckily, no need for me to offer any further counter-point to you on this forum. Road Lore is stronger than Road Law.

There's nothing in the Safe Cycling handbook that relates to left turning vehicles, or otherwise supports your first statement.

A careful reading of what I've posted will also show that I have advocated caution rather than righteousness...
WombatK wrote:But you're right - assuming the worst options will be taken by motorists is a sensible defensive strategy.

The reason it is a sensible strategy is because the vast majority of motorists are totally ignorant of their obligations to cyclists under
the road rules. Cyclists are too vulnerable to injury to be able to afford righteousness. But should a motorist do the wrong thing, ignorance is no excuse and they should be held accountable.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby ft_critical » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:01 pm

wombatK wrote:There's nothing in the Safe Cycling handbook that relates to left turning vehicles, or otherwise supports your first statement.


My apologies for the incorrect link, the quote is from here:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/downloads/bicycle_riders_handbook.pdf
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby trailgumby » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:23 pm

ft_critical wrote:
wombatK wrote:There's nothing in the Safe Cycling handbook that relates to left turning vehicles, or otherwise supports your first statement.


My apologies for the incorrect link, the quote is from here:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/downloads/bicycle_riders_handbook.pdf

It's in the handbook, no doubting that, but that's not the law. The handbook has blurred/editorialised good practice in with the rules. I'm not saying what they've printed isn't robust common sense, but it is a misrepresentation of the actual "black letter" law.

wombatK is correct with his quotation and interpretation of the *actual* road rules, namely 141 and 46.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby bpmhigh » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:00 am

Thanks everybody for the kind wishes and robust debate.

Having been a motorcyclist for 20 odd years I have taken great pride in riding defensively and assuming all motorists will make bad decisions. No arrogance here, I was simply off my game and am willing to shoulder (ouch) my fair share of blame. While the clearly shocked driver and passenger stated several times they would pay for damage, I will take my medicine, give them a call saying I'm ok, and let it lie.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby DaveOZ » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:23 am

I'm staying out of the blame game because I wasn't there and it's none of my business but I have to say I admire the approach you are taking over this. Glad you're still alive and hope you mend quickly.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby Bantam Roosta » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:25 pm

bpmhigh wrote:Thanks everybody for the kind wishes and robust debate.

Having been a motorcyclist for 20 odd years I have taken great pride in riding defensively and assuming all motorists will make bad decisions. No arrogance here, I was simply off my game and am willing to shoulder (ouch) my fair share of blame. While the clearly shocked driver and passenger stated several times they would pay for damage, I will take my medicine, give them a call saying I'm ok, and let it lie.

Just make sure you get yourself checked out first, to ensure there won't be any lasting damage.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Have you made a police report and been to a doctor?...I personally would do it so at you at least have an incident report number if the need arises further down the track.
Glad you are OK.
Edit...well I suppose you have seen a doc unless you stitched yourself up Rambo style :lol: .
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby bpmhigh » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:03 am

Thanks TLL.

I've had myself checked out from head to toe courtesy of the excellent Canberra Public Health System. I wandered into hospital emergency and two hours later had been poked, prodded, xrayed, blood alcohol taken, tetanus injection, sewn up, and handed a letter for my employer - I was hugely impressed. Police report was filed later that afternoon.

I'm off to get my Ksyriums straightened (hopefully) tomorrow and then back into training for the Cairns Ironman in June
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby wombatK » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:27 am

bpmhigh wrote:Thanks TLL.

I've had myself checked out from head to toe courtesy of the excellent Canberra Public Health System. I wandered into hospital emergency and two hours later had been poked, prodded, xrayed, blood alcohol taken, tetanus injection, sewn up, and handed a letter for my employer - I was hugely impressed.

Me too. You wouldn't have a spare room for rent :) ? In 2 hours in Sydney you'd still be waiting in the corridor outside casualty; unless you didn't arrive in an ambulance, in which case, you'd be standing around a waiting room looking sheepish for the next 6 or so hours.

You've got the necessary legalities in place in case anything goes sour, and your generosity to the motorist is an admirable bit of pay-it-forward.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby Cruiserman » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:50 am

HAKS wrote:Glad you are ok. Seemed like a heap of bicycle accidents this week. Most mornings heard something on the radio about someone been down


Funny really when you consider it was motorcycle awareness week. Perhaps all the cars were too busy looking for Motorcyclists to see Cyclists.


As for being in the right - that is little consolation if you are dead. A lesson that has to be taught to all children regarding pedestrian crossings, and to many sailors who think that as sail has right of way over powered vessels it is ok to sail across the bows of container ships cause they have to stop to avoid hitting you. When in doubt heed the laws of physics.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby CommuRider » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:30 am

Cruiserman wrote: When in doubt heed the laws of physics.


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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby cp123 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:35 am

Sorry to hear about that.




Another cyclist I know through the horse world is in a VERY VERY serious condition arising from a mishap about 2 weeks ago. intensive care still, ventilator.... :( I hope he makes it. If he does, it'll be a bloody long road back.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby twizzle » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:03 pm

ft_critical/wombatk... what the OP didn't mention was that he was riding an on-road cycle lane. I'm also very cautious along that road, but if someone turns without indicating you really can't fault the cyclist.

bpmhigh - not sure if I'd be putting so much of the blame on myself in that situation. I really don't expect people to look before they turn across the cycle lanes, but there is no excuse for not using an indicator. No driver should have to think about indicating, it should be completely automatic, same as checking mirrors.
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Re: Another Cyclist Down...only this time it was me!

Postby twizzle » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:16 pm

Oh, and just another thing...

... guy at work had a big stack at the beginning of the year when a ute dropped wood in front of him and another rider during a tri, and ended up with destroyed bikes and bruises/cuts/aches - at the time. He kept up the training, did his third iron-man a couple of months later... and then everything turned to shite. It started off with tingling down his arm and hand, and now has become nerve pain which stops him from sleeping. When he crashed, he landed on his left shoulder, and they *think* it's scar tissue from the shoulder injury rubbing on the nerve, because scans etc. haven't turned up anything useful. He can still run, but can't ride or swim, and has to take sleeping tablets to get sleep as nothing stops the pain.

So just because it's all good today doesn't mean a crash isn't going to come back and bit you in the arse in the weeks/months ahead.
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