Old federal highway assault‏

Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby jcjordan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:14 am

Ross wrote:
mrgolf wrote: I would also struggle to deal with the hefty responsibility of putting someone in prison knowing they are a human being with family that will suffer as a result of your decision. I wouldn't sleep easily at night. Its not an easy job.


What about the family and friends of the victim?! I'm sure they are suffering worse. Yes the family of the person who comitted the crime might be upset because their loved one is going to jail but they must understand it is for good reason.


Sorry but I have little sympathy for a criminals family.

They made the choice to abuse the freedom and privileges of society and should a judge decide to remove them they hold all the blame.

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by BNA » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:26 am

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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby mrgolf » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:26 am

Yes. Because a 2 year old child has any control over what their father does. Right.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:55 am

jcjordan wrote:What I am referring to is how we still allow alot of luxury with the system without any requirement to earn it.


Shouldn't have to earn it. Lose it maybe. How many of us "earned" the right to live in Australia for example. The fundamental difference between a privelege and a right. The concept of "privelege" existed in society long before the concept of "right" and those societies sucked. There are many societies today that suck because of the lack of rights, though they all have heavy "priveleges" for the few.

Ross wrote:
mrgolf wrote: I would also struggle to deal with the hefty responsibility of putting someone in prison knowing they are a human being with family that will suffer as a result of your decision. I wouldn't sleep easily at night. Its not an easy job.


What about the family and friends of the victim?! I'm sure they are suffering worse. Yes the family of the person who comitted the crime might be upset because their loved one is going to jail but they must understand it is for good reason.

Too many people (most probably) are far to willing to put another person and their loved ones and many others to suffering far to easily. Emphasis on "easy". It should be the "hard" chice and we should feel some difficulty ourselves when we do, even if there is justification.

How quickly we all forget the eulogies to Mandella. If mrgold struggles then he is a better person for it and others could learn something from him.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby jcjordan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:08 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
jcjordan wrote:What I am referring to is how we still allow alot of luxury with the system without any requirement to earn it.


Shouldn't have to earn it. Lose it maybe. How many of us "earned" the right to live in Australia for example. The fundamental difference between a privelege and a right. The concept of "privelege" existed in society long before the concept of "right" and those societies sucked. There are many societies today that suck because of the lack of rights, though they all have heavy "priveleges" for the few.

.


Was thinking more of them having to earn it back once they have lost it by being sentenced

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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby jcjordan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:14 am

mrgolf wrote:Yes. Because a 2 year old child has any control over what their father does. Right.


And neither does the victims family. Nor did the person making them suffer make a deliberate choice which caused the incarceration.

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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby mrgolf » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Yes. They are all victims of an individual's behavior. No one is discounting direct victims feelings. But to persecute through guilt by association is completely unfair.

It's like blaming Miley for Achey breakey heart, although she has some crimes against humanity herself.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby jcjordan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:28 pm

mrgolf wrote:Yes. They are all victims of an individual's behavior. No one is discounting direct victims feelings. But to persecute through guilt by association is completely unfair.

It's like blaming Miley for Achey breakey heart, although she has some crimes against humanity herself.


It's not about persecution of individuals due to association but more a case that their impact should not be used as a mitigation

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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby outnabike » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:30 pm

Some times these things have a way of getting out of hand. Just imagine this guy monstering that cyclist the other day that was doing his rounds with a shotgun.
And they would both be arguing that their dolls were taken away when they were 16.... :)

Just joking here.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby sogood » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:37 pm

All crimes have a psychological basis. Question on these personality and neurotic behaviours, can the court enforce effective therapy? When does frontal lobotomy come in? Disgusts me when lawyers start to advertise "NotGuilty.com.au" in public.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby mrgolf » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:41 pm

jcjordan wrote:
mrgolf wrote:Yes. They are all victims of an individual's behavior. No one is discounting direct victims feelings. But to persecute through guilt by association is completely unfair.

It's like blaming Miley for Achey breakey heart, although she has some crimes against humanity herself.


It's not about persecution of individuals due to association but more a case that their impact should not be used as a mitigation

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Things like this should never be clear cut black and white.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby Ross » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:28 pm

mrgolf wrote:No one is discounting their pain, but you make a good additional point. On top of the responsibility of potentially ripping a family apart, there is the family of the victim who the judge ends up feeling responsible to. In a case where an offender doesn't get the sentence the family and society want, the judge ends up with their pain on their conscience.


I doubt a judge gives a case a second thought once it is done and dusted. He/she just moves on to the next one. It's just a job for them. You'd have to switch off, you couldn't let emotions come affect you in that sort of job. I couldn't do it; or be a cop or be a solicitor. Dealing with dregs of society would send me loopy in a day.

It would compound the victim's family's grief if the crim got a light sentence or worse, let off. It may be distressing for the crim's family if he/she goes to jail but they can only blame the crim for that. It's not the judge's fault. People have to be shown by example that it is not acceptable to behave this way in our society and therefore recieve punishment to deter them (and hopefully others) from doing similar things in the future.

In the case of DW he keeps re-offending while out on bail. So far there has been no "punishment", no deterent, so why would he stop doing what he's been doing? He might go further next time, and the victim might be me or you.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:34 pm

jcjordan wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
jcjordan wrote:What I am referring to is how we still allow alot of luxury with the system without any requirement to earn it.


Shouldn't have to earn it. Lose it maybe. How many of us "earned" the right to live in Australia for example. The fundamental difference between a privelege and a right. The concept of "privelege" existed in society long before the concept of "right" and those societies sucked. There are many societies today that suck because of the lack of rights, though they all have heavy "priveleges" for the few.

.


Was thinking more of them having to earn it back once they have lost it by being sentenced

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Some merit in that.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby mrgolf » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:36 pm

Ross, it is their job. True. But some of the stuff they deal with day to day and in exceptional circumstances stays with them for sure. Fact of the matter is that crime, in a lot of cases is a tragedy in itself. Not excusing the perps, but the circumstances surrounding a lot of crime is unfortunate. I know for a fact sitting on judgement and sentencing sits heavily on the shoulders of judges.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby mrgolf » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:43 pm

James, out of interest, how could they earn it back? You seemed to be suggesting earlier they have very few priveliges in jail. How can they prove anything if not given the tools to demonstrate self improvement?

Whatever, though, cos this issue is pretty complex. It's been an interesting conversation though.

Ross, I am willing to put money on an unsuccessful appeal. He pleaded guilty to charges don't forget. His sentence was probably more lenient as a result. There won't be room to move.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:43 pm

mrgolf wrote:Yes. Because a 2 year old child has any control over what their father does. Right.

You sure? I was never any sort of angel (nor demon) BITD but my whole existence and perspective on life was totally reprogrammed in the space of about 90sec at 0122 on the 4th May 1992.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby skull » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:53 pm

Ross wrote:
It would compound the victim's family's grief if the crim got a light sentence or worse, let off.


Sometimes the Magistrate/judge do give the crims too light a sentence, thus the DPP have to appear the result to try and get a more fitting punishment.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby Howzat » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:01 pm

Mulger bill wrote:I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a blunt chainsaw than do anything to make either of their lives harder.

+1... but of course it's not about what anyone did or can do, apart from the bloke convicted in this case.

While I'm usually inclined to go a step further than mrgolf, and to invite the predictable chorus of wet-pantsed populists to go and live in Iran or Afghanistan if they like disciplinarian judicial systems so much, I'm happy to see a conviction and sentencing here. Not a first offence and behaviour that poses an overt threat to public safety - he needs consequences(1), and we need protection(2).

(1) Appropriate, considered consequences.
(2) but as little as possible.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby jcjordan » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:51 pm

mrgolf wrote:James, out of interest, how could they earn it back? You seemed to be suggesting earlier they have very few priveliges in jail. How can they prove anything if not given the tools to demonstrate self improvement?

Whatever, though, cos this issue is pretty complex. It's been an interesting conversation though.

Ross, I am willing to put money on an unsuccessful appeal. He pleaded guilty to charges don't forget. His sentence was probably more lenient as a result. There won't be room to move.


It's actually quite simple and put in place in a couple of State prisons within the US.

For simplicity let's use the Australian military system.

You enter with no rank or name. You are just a number and are referred to as' prisoner'. You must refer to all the staff as 'sir' and are locked up in your cell unless you are on detail or training.

Based on your behaviour you earn back those privileges such as free time, TV and the like. Bad behaviour is punished by the removal of these privileges.

Unfortunately this constantly gets complaints for the wosers at the human rights commission as being cruel and unusual but Defence keeps telling them to get stuffed.

It has proven to have a high success rate in terms of reoffending and future performance of personal.

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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby Ross » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:07 pm

Another hit and run (peds not cyclists). :x

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-new ... z2oGVNO3iA

he told investigators he had not realised he had hit a person.


W.T.F.
He didn't hit "a person", he hit two people. :shock:

Mr Han had to be airlifted to a Sydney hospital for specialist care for his a broken neck and spine, and brain injury. Mr Sekhon suffered minor injuries.


Fanti told the court he felt "terrible" about the incident and had been left with two broken legs after a car accident as a young man in Sao Paulo.


Yet he drives off after hitting these people :evil:
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby biker jk » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:18 pm

Ross wrote:Another hit and run (peds not cyclists). :x

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-new ... z2oGVNO3iA

he told investigators he had not realised he had hit a person.


W.T.F.
He didn't hit "a person", he hit two people. :shock:

Mr Han had to be airlifted to a Sydney hospital for specialist care for his a broken neck and spine, and brain injury. Mr Sekhon suffered minor injuries.


Fanti told the court he felt "terrible" about the incident and had been left with two broken legs after a car accident as a young man in Sao Paulo.


Yet he drives off after hitting these people :evil:


Come on, the poor thing can't be gaoled, he has work booked into next year. :roll:
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby Ross » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:58 pm

Just heard this guy has been given a 7 month suspended sentance so no jail time.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby biker jk » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:12 pm

Ross wrote:Just heard this guy has been given a 7 month suspended sentance so no jail time.


What an absolute joke of a sentence. :shock:
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby Ross » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:00 am

As long as he doesn't re-offend then I guess it's ok.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby Poiter » Mon May 26, 2014 4:35 pm

Maybe he is doing it again?
Big Ford ute buzzed past my elbow today along there at about 1:00pm.
Saw him on mirror and heard his engine as he "put the boot in" - took quick left diversion.
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Re: Old federal highway assault‏

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon May 26, 2014 4:39 pm

Ross wrote:Just heard this guy has been given a 7 month suspended sentance so no jail time.

Where from? A link would be nice.
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