Cyclists passing cyclists

dasinc
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:51 am

Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby dasinc » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

G'day,

I got abused by a cyclist other other day as I swerved (still within the left psp lane) to go around some debris. This guy got right in my face about it. We had quite the robust discussion about each others various short comings. Anyway, I was just curious as to what others think.. He abused me for swerving (within my lane 30cm at most I'd guess.) and I abused him for passing too close, and without warning.

Quite often I get passed by cyclists (I am slow) in my own lane. I think that is too close....if there is space, why not use it? We want cars to give us a meter, why can't we give each other a bit of space as well?

Thoughts?
Last edited by dasinc on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
HappyHumber
Posts: 5017
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby HappyHumber » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:18 pm

perhaps it was more you swerved out to avoid the debris unannounced or without a quick shoulder check yourself first; just as the overtaking bloke could/should arguably call as they're about to over take.

Sad that I'm experiencing and hearing a tad more inter cyclist agro of late. Just like road rage; everyone gets on the defensive first as adrenaline shoots up and tempers flare.

The lines of 'us and them' are blurring.
- Kym
Infrequently reading & contributing these days. Still reachable by PM (email alerts) - dec 2016

NASHIE
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby NASHIE » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 pm

Sorry to hear agro on the PSPs, but your right and the passing rider needs to pull his head in. Riding with a group etc you need to hold your line or you could cause a crash, but passing other riders, peds, cars etc etc you need to give them room as they are an unknown.

Scott_C
Posts: 657
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby Scott_C » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:10 pm

Overtaking riders should wait until there is sufficient space and give an audible indication that they are going to pass ("on yer right" or ring their bell).

Equally, if you are going to significantly change your line you should also be giving prior warning that it is going to happen if at all possible (audible or hand signal).

Finally, we all stuff some things up sometimes and should remember to not get too high and mighty about it (mainly aimed at the guy overtaking and riders in general).

Hugor
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:56 am
Location: Floreat, Perth

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby Hugor » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:40 pm

If there’s ample time then a standard road signal would be appropriate and expected from the front rider Frequently though PSPs deliver sudden obstacles and urgent evasive action is required.
Such is the danger of riding cycle paths.
When overtaking you really should be making sure the coast is clear and this includes anticipating any obstacles in front of the rider your passing.
The responsibility lies with the guy overtaking in my opinion.

User avatar
10speedsemiracer
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Melbourne, Eastern Suburbs, near the hills,

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:15 am

Scott_C wrote:..... and give an audible indication that they are going to pass ("on yer right" or ring their bell).....


There needs to be an audible from the passing rider, "on your right" is my preference and is normally enough, and better than a bell which causes a slow (possibly new) rider to head-check or lose directional integrity...
Mmm, SunTour

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1255
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby Mububban » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:09 am

If you stayed entirely within your lane, you did nothing wrong. The guy overtaking was being a tool.

When I overtake other cyclists on PSP, I'll swing right over as far as I can go into the other lane to avoid just such an occasion. We all know how many unexpected obstacles the PSP can produce.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

User avatar
Red Rider
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:44 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby Red Rider » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:29 pm

Agree with Mububban's words, your lane is your lane, especially when the overtaker doesn't announce their intent with a bell or yell. You can't be expected to signal when manoeuvring around hazards every time. As the saying goes, a metre matters :)

Too often I see someone overtake another rider within a bees whisker when I'm coming the other way. I've even had two riders abreast overtaking someone whilst I'm coming the other way. I only just had bike width to get past at 30 clicks. Kamikazes

novice_101
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:53 am

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby novice_101 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:14 pm

I normally go with "bike back" when I'm coming up on a slower rider. Sometimes I'll also ring the bell. I find the bell can sometimes be misconstrued though, as if I'm beeping my horn saying "get out of my way", when really it's a courtesy thing. That's lead me to not use it as much.

I like to keep in mind that I may be faster than this person, but there's someone who will be faster than me too, so the "treat others as you'd like to be treated" rule comes in. As was said earlier, sometimes people react badly in the heat of the moment, which is unfortunate.

Knox_Harrington
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby Knox_Harrington » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:34 pm

I ride north on the Mitchell PSP in the mornings, contra flow to the majority of CBD bound commuters. Pedestrians get close passed way too often by impatient riders as I approach in the other lane. It always seems to happen at that particularly rubbish section of path next to Britannia Reserve.

Hopefully pedestrians and cyclists will be seperated in some future iteration of the PSP. It seems that wherever a power and speed variation exists between modes of transport, conflict will inevitably arise due to an unpreventable subset of impatient jerks.

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:17 pm

NASHIE wrote:Sorry to hear agro on the PSPs, but your right and the passing rider needs to pull his head in. Riding with a group etc you need to hold your line or you could cause a crash, but passing other riders, peds, cars etc etc you need to give them room as they are an unknown.

Agreed. Any user of roads and paths should not assume that the person in front will never ever have a need, unplanned, to deviate at least a small amount.

Hell, you'd think that riders would we a little wary of a waddling wobbling unicycle but even I have riders passing by me with zero margin.

If a rider does not have the space to get past even when there is another rider coming towards them then they need to accept full responsibility for any resulting collision. It is NOT the fault of the rider in front who is, after all, only seeing half the picture and cannot always have the luxury of being able to do a head check.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

XIX
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:44 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby XIX » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:52 pm

"Bike back" is the common term when used to over take someone or in a group to signal someone is coming past. The psp is sufficiently wide enough for 2 each way within the "lane" so as long as you stay left so others can pass safely and they call out when coming past then issues should be at a minimum.

Ive come past you as well a few time Colin and never found you to be too far over so probably just a bad situation for all which no doubt will still happen even if all have the best of intentions.

User avatar
chuckchunder
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:18 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby chuckchunder » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:37 pm

XIX wrote:"Bike back" is the common term when used to over take someone or in a group to signal someone is coming past. The psp is sufficiently wide enough for 2 each way within the "lane" so as long as you stay left so others can pass safely and they call out when coming past then issues should be at a minimum.


I disagree. Maybe for experienced riders who are familiar with road rider etiquette and bunch riding in close quarters, but many, I would guess most, using the PSP's in Perth are not. Many riders find being passed within the lane intimidating and unnerving, even with a warning. Same goes for pedestrians.
"We have thousands of miles of cycling infrastructure, we just need to get the cars off them....." US advocate

XIX
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:44 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby XIX » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:35 am

That doesn't mean its not wide enough. It is wide enough for 2 abreast each way safely if people keep left. The one on kwinnana fwy is for the most part anyway.

vinski
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby vinski » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:16 pm

I try to give as much room as possible on the odd occasions i do actually pass someone on the PSPs (im slow). I find by going over all the way to the right gives plenty of space when passing that in the event the other cyclist has to swerve there would still be plenty of room. I dont understand why someone would pass closely by unless a bike or ped was in the oncoming lane. Even then, it would probably be better to slow down for 5 secs and then pass. Just my 2c

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby Thoglette » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:27 pm

vinski wrote: I dont understand why someone would pass closely by unless a bike or ped was in the oncoming lane. Even then, it would probably be better to slow down for 5 secs and then pass. Just my 2c

Same reason they buzz you when driving their car. MGIF. NOW!
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

NASHIE
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby NASHIE » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:55 pm

Thoglette wrote:
vinski wrote: I dont understand why someone would pass closely by unless a bike or ped was in the oncoming lane. Even then, it would probably be better to slow down for 5 secs and then pass. Just my 2c

Same reason they buzz you when driving their car. MGIF. NOW!


I've had riders (wheel suckers) lockup and nearly rear end me as i slow for peds with oncoming traffic. You get some madly ringing there bell which i'm sure the expection is for the ped to get of the path. As mentioned above we all get it wrong from time to time. Varying speeds sometimes make closing meet points hard to judge. A sorry or hand wave is all takes to keep the peace, which seems hard for some.

User avatar
Tequestra
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:12 pm

Re: Cyclists passing cyclists

Postby Tequestra » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:33 pm

Hugor wrote:When overtaking you really should be making sure the coast is clear and this includes anticipating any obstacles in front of the rider your passing.
The responsibility lies with the guy overtaking in my opinion.

Thank you Mr Hugor. This is what I was thinking too, although it is seemingly beyond the usual rider/driver awareness required to obtain a drivers' license, and also that of some inexperienced cyclists, as exemplified in this thread.

I do not see it as 100% responsibility for one party or the other, but the most responsibility technically rests with the overtaking vehicle. The exception being those who ride carelessly veering across the road or path with no good reason. Potholes are good reason, and the one behind should be aware of the obvious need to veer right to avoid such obstacles, even if a 4x4 could easily drive straight over said potholes.

In my opinion, there is a much greater requirement for an overtaking rider to give audible warning to the rider in front, and if it is a narrow PSP then best to slow down and tailgate for a little until there is good clear road and the front rider is clearly following a straight line on the left.

It is not a race. There is no hurry to pass other riders. If someone is in a hurry, then they should have taken their helicopter instead of their bike. ;-)

PS: Just a thought. On the roads, cyclists usually hear cars and trucks approaching from behind because of the sound of their engines and exhaust notes. When most cars on the road are electric however, that audible warning to the cyclist that a car is about to pass will be practically silenced. There is going to have to be some change in the conduct of city cyclists or else there might need to be little piezo buzzers or some kind of minimally-pollutant noise for big electric cars. It is also food for thought for electric cyclists with stronger legs than mine. Nobody likes surprises.
Viva le Tour Electrique' !!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users