Coastal Bike Path - Bikes Banned?

Coastal Bike Path - Bikes Banned?

Postby senator52 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:44 am

Apparently one of the Stirling City Councillor's has proposed a motion to ban cycling on the coastal footpath between Scarborough and Trigg, but they will trial it near Mettam's Pool (Watermans)...? Which suggest's to me the ban may reach further north, even Scarborough to Hilary's maybe. Nothing has been approved yet, so not even the trial is certain to go ahead, but the BTA spokesmen has not supported the move.

All this is roughly paraphrased from the front page of the recent Stirling Times, headline caught my eye...never read the rubbish...

If it does go ahead thats kinda of sad, because all the very social, layback riders who enjoy cycling with their children etc. will be forced onto the road, ultimately cycling would just reduce along the coastal path. Though you are allowed to walk your bike through the zone if you still wish to pass through it. I think the term coined in the article was 'Pedestrian Safe Zone' though correct me if I'm wrong, I have a dodgy memory at the best of times... :oops:
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by BNA » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:54 am

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Postby europa » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:54 am

Disappointing. Though I don't know the track (have never been to WA :roll: ), we've a similar spot here. The ride along the beaches is a nice, gentle doddle with room for cyclists and pedestrians, apart from one stretch where bikes are banned. This forces cyclists up onto the nearby road which through there is very narrow and very busy - it's downright scary. Oh, and the strip of 'peds only'? There's plenty of room to make the path twice as wide and it just happens to snake through some landscaped sand dunes in front of a development of townhouses :? Not that I'm cynical about developers with money or anything :evil:

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Postby Aushiker » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:07 am

G'day

It is on the agenda for the June 5, 2007 meeting of the Council, so I guess it was discussed. The City of Stirling has not yet released its minutes of the meeting so no more information from the Council other than the agenda item detailed below.

The following is taken from the Agenda papers for the June 5, 2007 Council Meeting:

NOTICE OF MOTION - COUNCILLOR STEWART 'PEDESTRIAN ONLY
SAFETY ZONES'

Councillor Stewart submitted the following notice of motion prior to the Council Meeting of 5 June 2007 for consideration at the next meeting of Council:-

“A report be prepared that addresses the implementation of 'Pedestrian Only Safety Zones', along the coastal dual use pathway between Scarborough Beach and Waterman's Bay in relation to hot spots where the interaction between pedestrian beach access from and to the dual use
pathway and vehicle parking are identified. Such zones will require cyclists to dismount and walk their cycles through the 'Pedestrian Only Safety Zone'. The report is to comment upon the following points but not be limited to those identified:

• Hot spots: Scarborough Beach; Trigg Beach; Clarko Reserve; Mettams Pool; Hamersley/Centuar Pool and Waterman's Bay
• Legality
• By-law
• Proposed location and length within the identified hot spots
• Design
• Financial implications
• Agency comment - MRWA, Dept of Transport, WA Police & Bike West
• Community Consultation”

Officers Comment

The City is currently working with the Department for Planning and Infrastructure on a number of initiatives to quantify and control conflict on shared use paths and is gathering data from the Coastal Shared Use Path.

It is therefore recommended that a report be presented upon completion of this research to include the issues contained within the Councillor’s Notice of Motion.


Regards
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Postby moosterbounce » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:39 am

Just typical!! That stretch is a wide, two lane job...though you ALWAYS have to go really slow as the pedestrians take both lanes in both directions. I just wouldn't ride that route ever again if that happened.

It may not affect the council, but me and a group of mates would never end up at Scarborough for a late breaky or early lunch, or drink, or a swim, or anything. As we wouldn't be able to ride there, we wouldn't go at all. I ain't duck walking in my bike shoes along that stretch...it is huge.

I know I'm just one voice, but surely councils can't afford to get rid of "tourists" from neighbouring areas who bring in money?

Also, I'm looking at buying a new house and we were looking along the coastal strip...not around there we aren't...now.

The road along there is narrow (if they have put it back together again!!) and very busy being along the beach. And I reckon the cars are unpredictable as most poeple are busy watching the ocean. I've tried it once, got very scared, and resorted to the path. Mate and his bunch were hit by a car along there a few months back...$20k damage in bikes :shock:

Not to mention families. There are heaps of kids on bikes learning to ride along there and they go there cos it is wide and safe.

I'm appalled.

No wonder global warming is a real issue - councils aren't doing anything to assist people with environmentally friendly modes of transport like in other countries (you can salary sacrifice a bike in some whereas here, you can only SS a car and the more km's you do the better off you are). :?

I'll get down off my box now...

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Postby mikesbytes » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:17 pm

So they will be lowering the speed limit on the adjacent road to 10kph to make it suitable for parents with small children to ride there bikes along the roadway instead?
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Postby senator52 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:20 pm

Moosterbounce, you summed it up nicely :x
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Postby Aushiker » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:24 pm

moosterbounce wrote:I'll get down off my box now...Moo...


Why not let the Council know your views? Your comments seem to me to be be valid.

We can't expect things to be as we want if we don't participate in the decision making process. It shouldn't be left just up to the BTA.

Expressing one's frustrations in forums such as this is good, but we shouldn't expect Councils to monitor these forums. If we don't let them know directly we can't expect them to respond to our concerns or at least consider them.

I strongly encourage everyone (WA and elsewhere) concerned to let the Council know directly. The council's web address is stirling.wa.gov.au and their email address is [email protected] .

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Postby twowheels » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:44 pm

moosterbounce wrote:It may not affect the council, but me and a group of mates would never end up at Scarborough for a late breaky or early lunch, or drink, or a swim, or anything. As we wouldn't be able to ride there, we wouldn't go at all. I ain't duck walking in my bike shoes along that stretch...it is huge.



perhaps the local businesspersons' group would be interested in this loss of business also, not only yourself but also family groups who may ride from a to b then have a coffee and meal break before heading back.
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Postby mikesbytes » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:44 pm

twowheels wrote:
moosterbounce wrote:It may not affect the council, but me and a group of mates would never end up at Scarborough for a late breaky or early lunch, or drink, or a swim, or anything. As we wouldn't be able to ride there, we wouldn't go at all. I ain't duck walking in my bike shoes along that stretch...it is huge.



perhaps the local businesspersons' group would be interested in this loss of business also, not only yourself but also family groups who may ride from a to b then have a coffee and meal break before heading back.


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Postby gdl_gdl » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:07 pm

I agree with Moo's points 100%. And also the suggestion about e-mailing the council direct which I will do. Further to Moo, my main points of concern are (which will form part of my e-mail):-

1) Why is this being done? Is there evidence of known conflicts / accidents? If so can we see the evidence? Does the 'cost' of the solution outweigh the 'problem' it attempts to resolve?

2) What are the alternatives to the bike lane? Anybody who knows this area knows it's a very skinny road for cyclists (hence the extra wide dual use bike lane in place). (There is no cycle strip on the road until you hit Hilary's). Common sense would dictate that cyclists are not going to dismount at regular intervals along a path.

3) Are you aware of the economic cost? Any cyclist whose been there at the weekend knows how busy the cafes are with "cafe racers". How certain are you that they will keep returning once the "safety" zones are introduced?

Let me know if you have any other questions and I'll include them.

This path forms part of my 100km circular ride that I do. I've been there over a dozen times in the last few months and I've never seen any problems whatsoever (including the 'busy' periods of summer and long weekends).

And finally, there's a stack of female talent on those paths and it would be a shame to lose the eye candy! :lol: :lol: :lol:

If I'm fit again by the weekend then I'll take some pics of the bike lanes if anybody from the East wants to see the current path. Then hopefully you'll realise how ludicrous this suggestion is.

Cheers,

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Postby moosterbounce » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:18 pm

gdl_gdl wrote:And finally, there's a stack of female talent on those paths and it would be a shame to lose the eye candy! :lol: :lol: :lol:


It isn't just female talent...some nice surfer boyz for candy :D :wink:

I'll be emailing too and seeing what I can find on their website about the outcome of the meeting over the weekend (damn work!!)

Mentioned this to my parents last night as they are up from down south and had just driven the coastal route. They understood my frustration as they themselves admitted to looking/flicking to the view whilst driving...as every single person does (and they lie if they say they don't).

Over summer in particular, we rode that strip a few times per week and, apart from the normal minority pedestrian abuse, never saw anything odd. I say minority pedestrian abuse as some seem to ignore the 2 lanes and walk 4 abreast anyway and expect bikes to go round (over the dunes :? ).

Not everyone does this and I have had many polite chats with walkers (not wearing ipods :x )...had a bunch of grey ladies whom I slowed right down for and when they moved out of the way (all giggling) I joked that now I had no excuse but to go faster and wear myself out. They had a great laugh at my "misfortune". Yet others have held the 4 abreast and told me to give way to pedestrians :shock:

I'll be using some examples of "abuse" both from pedestrians and cars (like having things thrown at me when on the road) in my email too. Not to mention the greenhouse gas thing.

Perhaps a 10kmh zone would be better...but then I suppose we run the risk of the whole path being zoned...sigh :?

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Postby heavymetal » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:22 pm

I don't think this ban covers touring bikes, so I should be right :D

I've heard of similiar things, and depending on who funded the construction of the bike path, it will be interesting to see if they can enforce this.

A dual use path is precisely that, and a bicycle can be used. So is council bylaw over ridden by state law?

If they do this. I'll still ride my bike there. I rode the freeway until the police kicked me off :shock:

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Postby senator52 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:26 pm

Did you get a fine for your freeway ride? Or just a reprimand?
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Postby heavymetal » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:46 pm

senator52 wrote:Did you get a fine for your freeway ride? Or just a reprimand?


I got escorted?? (followed) to the next off ramp after a stern talking to. There was no sign that said "No Bicycles". It had been flattened by a car.

The secret is to plead ignorance and pretend that you are from interstate :D

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Postby senator52 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:06 pm

Im thinking that is one of those moments which u will brag about forever more. Similarly a cyclist getting fined for speeding is another one of those incidences 8) One day, one day :twisted:
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Postby purplegolden » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:20 pm

For what it is worth, I've put my comments into the council.

On another note, there is a meeting to be held in Mt Hawthorn (June 21) and Booragoon (June 22) to discuss the Perth Bicycle Network.

I've got the details (you need to email to confirm attendance) if anyone is interested.

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Postby Aushiker » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:44 pm

G'day

Please find below the decision at June 5, 2007 Council meeting. Quoted from the minutes, item 13.2.

Council Resolution
Moved Councillor Stewart, seconded Councillor Ham.
A report be prepared for presentation to the August 2007 Infrastructure and Community
Development Committee that addresses the implementation of 'Pedestrian Only Safety
Zones', along the coastal dual use pathway between Scarborough Beach and Waterman's
Bay in relation to hot spots where the interaction between pedestrian beach access from
and to the dual use pathway and vehicle parking are identified. Such zones will require
cyclists to dismount and walk their cycles through the 'Pedestrian Only Safety Zone'. The
report is to comment upon the following points but not be limited to those identified:
• Hot spots: Scarborough Beach; Trigg Beach; Clarko Reserve; Mettams Pool;
Hamersley/Centuar Pool and Waterman's Bay
• Legality
• By-law
• Proposed location and length within the identified hot spots
• Design
• Financial implications
112
MINUTES OF THE ORDINARY MEETING OF COUNCIL OF 5 JUNE 2007
• Agency comment - MRWA, Dept of Transport, WA Police & Bike West Community
Consultation
The motion was put and declared CARRIED.


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Postby moosterbounce » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:59 pm

Bugger!! Better give me the time for that Mt Hawthorn meeting and I'll see how my diary looks that day (work does tend to get in the way :? )

Moo...
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Postby twowheels » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:54 pm

Community Consultation ... where is the community consultation being advertised and when?
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Postby Aushiker » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:33 pm

twowheels wrote:Community Consultation ... where is the community consultation being advertised and when?


I think it is "Bike West Community Consultation" but I could be wrong. You could ask the Council and then let us all know.

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Andrew
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Postby tallywhacker » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:36 am

after reading the resolution it looks like they are only planning the 'Pedestrian Only Safety Zone' in selected areas, not the complete cycleway between Scarborough and Trigg. I assume this would be around the Scarborough forshore and surf club and the Trigg surf club which if you really think about is are accidents waiting to happen.

in relation to hot spots where the interaction between pedestrian beach access from and to the dual use pathway and vehicle parking are identified. Such zones will require cyclists to dismount and walk their cycles through the 'Pedestrian Only Safety Zone'.
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:15 pm

Get off and walk... Is the council going to pay for my cleats?

On Sydney's Pyrmont bridge, they have a 10kph speed limit for bikes.

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Postby Aushiker » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:32 pm

G'day

Here is the latest news from the BTAWA:

Cyclists will be pleased to hear that the proposal to introduce Pedestrian-Only zones along the coastal shared path within the City of Stirling was rejected. (A report discussing the implications of such a move was recently submitted to council, and may be viewed by clicking here and reading from p131 onwards.)

Thanks to everyone who wrote and took action in this campaign, and in particular, thanks to Joanne Burgess, Travelsmart officer with the City of Stirling, who alerted cyclists to the proposal and who prepared such a compelling report arguing against the proposal.

Instead of a ban on cyclists, a number of community education initiatives will be conducted along the shared path, including a high-profile campaign during this year's Walk Week. Joanne tells us that while the final details of this are yet to be determined, she anticipates that she will need the support and assistance of regular path users. If you think that you may be able to help with this project, please contact Joanne and let her know so that she can add your name to an 'expressions of interest' list, and contact you closer to the time with details of what is involved. Adding your name to this list does not mean that you will be required to help out, only that you will receive more information so that you can choose to participate if you wish.

Joanne can be contacted at the City of Stirling on 9345 8910 or [email protected]


Regards
Andrew
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Postby gdl_gdl » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:42 am

Great news, thanks for keeping everybody updated Andrew,

Cheers,

Gary
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