City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

User avatar
rolandp
Posts: 2208
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Hillarys - Perth, WA

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby rolandp » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:36 am

Look like bike lanes including the 'bike symbols'
Image

The section closer to Wellington St still had some fencing.

Will be very interested to see what happens at the Wellington St crossing.

Over 6 years in the making, and look nothing like what was originally approved:
Image

So who likes the original design, or the final product?

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 4121
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Thoglette » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:17 pm

Given the lack of connectivity to anything less, and the nature of pedestrians in the city, I think the final product (bike specific lanes) is better fit for need.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

User avatar
rolandp
Posts: 2208
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Hillarys - Perth, WA

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby rolandp » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:43 pm

Also, I wonder how many of us will use Barrack St, when William St becomes no-go for cars in 2016
Stage 3 - 2015/16
William Street (between Murray and Hay streets only) will become an exclusive pedestrian/cycle/bus/taxi zone. General traffic will not be able to enter this section of the street.

Click here to read the William Street bus-only fact sheet.

At the same time, the City of Perth will convert the section of Barrack Street between St Georges Terrace and Wellington Street to two-way traffic, making the street two-way for its full length. North-south cycle lanes will also be introduced, significantly improving the city’s cycle network.

From nothing to two choices available by Jun-2016.

wellington_street
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:25 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby wellington_street » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:10 am

William and Barrack serve two different purposes, i anticipate a lot of bike traffic on both.

nachoman
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:29 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby nachoman » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:46 pm

Had a look last night, Barrack St is coming along well. The intersections have advanced stopping boxes, and there are 'armadillos' at strategic locations.

The Wellington St intersection appears to differ from the plans I saw:

Image

Image

also of interest, if heading north on Barrack St, signs indicate cyclists are allowed to left turn in Hay and Murray St malls. Does this mean we can now legally cycle in them ?

Image

dmwill
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:13 am
Location: Perth, NOR

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby dmwill » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:40 pm

Rode through part of it this morning en route to Santos ride.

Seems alright, just need more of it.

Sinner
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 12:19 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Sinner » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:30 am

nachoman wrote:also of interest, if heading north on Barrack St, signs indicate cyclists are allowed to left turn in Hay and Murray St malls. Does this mean we can now legally cycle in them ?


No. It's in the City's Cycle Plan, but they can't get the changes to the Local Law agreed to allow it to happen.

nachoman
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:29 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby nachoman » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:58 pm

Barrack St two way open today. A great improvement to riding north south through the city.

This intersection at Barrack southbound x St George Terrace... Bicycles get a dedicated green light, Cars get a green light, yet the cars turning left have to wait for the pedestrians crossing St Georges Terrace. Who has right of way here between the car and the bicycle ? ORS indicates "cannot overtake on the left side of a motor vehicle if that motor vehicle is moving and indicating to turn left;" But the vehicles are often not moving, and the bicycle has a clear green light ???

Image

The most common hazard on this stretch are cars veering into the bicycle lane (like the sightseeing bus entering an intersection he cannot clear) or pedestrians ignoring the red lights (cars are not moving yet the bike lane is clear)

Image

Scott_C
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Scott_C » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:52 pm

nachoman wrote:This intersection at Barrack southbound x St George Terrace... Bicycles get a dedicated green light, Cars get a green light, yet the cars turning left have to wait for the pedestrians crossing St Georges Terrace. Who has right of way here between the car and the bicycle ? ORS indicates "cannot overtake on the left side of a motor vehicle if that motor vehicle is moving and indicating to turn left;" But the vehicles are often not moving, and the bicycle has a clear green light ???


Unsurprisingly ORS has this wrong. The law states:
WA Road Traffic Code 2000 wrote:122.Overtaking
(4)The rider of a bicycle shall not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is making, or apparently about to make, a left turn, or is signalling a left turn.
Modified penalty: 2 PU


Because this ends with "or is signalling a left turn" it is illegal to ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is signalling a left turn regardless of it is moving or not, similarly it is illegal to overtake a vehicle apparently about to make a left turn even if it isn't signalling.

Everywhere else in Australia, and in the national standard, the equivalent rule is "AND is signalling a left turn" which allows for the interpretation ORS have given and protects you against un-signalled left hooks.

The intended operation of the lights are in contradiction to the WA Road Rules, as is any filter lane to the left of a left turning lane.

Given that not even the ORS know the road rules I think you could safely filter along the bike lane and proceed when the bicycle symbol is green, even if it is technically illegal, but be prepared to yield to a left turning vehicle when the cars get a green light.

EDIT to reorganise the last sentence to read better.

IncognitoMosquito
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:16 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby IncognitoMosquito » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:59 am

nachoman wrote:Image


What is the purpose of the lumps of rubber at the junction between the bike lane and the traffic? I nearly came a cropper on similar at junction of Barrack and Esplanade on Tuesday and some poor lady took a nasty tumble on Sunday morning on the set at Barrack and Riverside Drive heading south.

Scott_C
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Scott_C » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:27 am

The armadillos are to discourage cars from cutting the corner into the bike lane. If you are keeping within your lane you won't hit them.

IncognitoMosquito
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:16 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby IncognitoMosquito » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:47 am

To be honest I would rather take my chances with the odd car as I do at any other junction than have those things cunningly hidden in the shadows, but then I rarely ride in the city. Just reckon they are more of a hazard to those who aren't aware they exist. Now I know there are more places with them I will obviously keep an eye out.

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 4121
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Thoglette » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:10 pm

IncognitoMosquito wrote: Just reckon they are more of a hazard to those who aren't aware they exist.

The white lines are a bit of a hazard when it rains - very slippery. Stay of them and you'll be happier, 'dillos or no 'dillos.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6098
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:56 pm

Thoglette wrote:
IncognitoMosquito wrote: Just reckon they are more of a hazard to those who aren't aware they exist.

The white lines are a bit of a hazard when it rains - very slippery. Stay of them and you'll be happier, 'dillos or no 'dillos.

Like all fresh white lines, they will become better with time.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

nachoman
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:29 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby nachoman » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:48 am

wellington_street wrote:Waiting at the lights southbound at Barrack/Riverside is a bit unnerving with the cars turning left across you, feels a little exposed.


I have noticed most confident cyclists now prefer to take the car lanes rather than wait for the slow traffic light phase in the bicycle lane at this location. Take the left lane if riding down Riverside drive, or the right lane if turning into Barrack Square and onto the path.

softy
Posts: 1665
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby softy » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:29 pm

Someone is going to get hurt or killed on that Barrack street. Rode it twice already south to north, what a death trap, cars turn left into you, peds walk down the cycle lane, peds just walk across crossings when you have a green light and don't even look to see if anything is coming. It is like everyone is acting like they are blind!

Should of kept it one way traffic and made it a semi mall, safer for everyone. :shock:

softy
Posts: 1665
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby softy » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:30 pm

nachoman wrote:
wellington_street wrote:Waiting at the lights southbound at Barrack/Riverside is a bit unnerving with the cars turning left across you, feels a little exposed.


I have noticed most confident cyclists now prefer to take the car lanes rather than wait for the slow traffic light phase in the bicycle lane at this location. Take the left lane if riding down Riverside drive, or the right lane if turning into Barrack Square and onto the path.


i now know why!

wellington_street
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:25 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby wellington_street » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:38 pm

The timing of the signals heading north means that I generally reach St Georges Tce just as the cars get a green light, which puts me in an awkward position exposed to left hooks. A few times I have had drivers turn left without indicating, so I'm super careful to get eye contact before passing (or hope they at least get off the phone!).

Heading north onto the bridge from Barrack Street is pretty good, but there is a really badly deformed section of pavement which makes it difficult to handle the bike.

NASHIE
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby NASHIE » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:40 pm

softy wrote:Someone is going to get hurt or killed on that Barrack street. Rode it twice already south to north, what a death trap, cars turn left into you, peds walk down the cycle lane, peds just walk across crossings when you have a green light and don't even look to see if anything is coming. It is like everyone is acting like they are blind!

Should of kept it one way traffic and made it a semi mall, safer for everyone. :shock:

,
Agree its a shambles. Traffic light timing, j-walkers, meth heads that whole Hay st-Barrack-Pier area shows Perth in a very poor light. Any tourist walking from nearby hotels must think 'What the'

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 4121
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Thoglette » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:21 pm

Scott_C wrote:Given that not even the ORS know the road rules I think you could safely filter along the bike lane and proceed when the bicycle symbol is green, even if it is technically illegal, but be prepared to yield to a left turning vehicle when the cars get a green light.


Wrong. If there is a marked bike lane you are in a separate lane and can happily pass vehicles in the next lane to the right.

Undertaking only applies to passing in the same lane. (Although I agree the current wording is stupid and should have AND rather than OR)
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

Scott_C
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Scott_C » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:09 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Scott_C wrote:Given that not even the ORS know the road rules I think you could safely filter along the bike lane and proceed when the bicycle symbol is green, even if it is technically illegal, but be prepared to yield to a left turning vehicle when the cars get a green light.


Wrong. If there is a marked bike lane you are in a separate lane and can happily pass vehicles in the next lane to the right.

Undertaking only applies to passing in the same lane. (Although I agree the current wording is stupid and should have AND rather than OR)


I disagree, part 4 of Rule 122 clearly states you can't ride past a vehicle indicating a left turn on the left of the vehicle with no mention of any exceptions for travelling in another lane. Part 2 of the rule indicates that a vehicle driving in another marked lane is still described as passing a vehicle.

If travelling in a marked lane to the left of a vehicle doesn't count as passing then there is a serious problem with allowing long loads displaying 'don't overtake turning vehicle signs' to turn left from the next to left lane, as per Rule 21(2), as there would be nothing stopping a vehicle from passing them on the left as they are in another marked lane.

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 4121
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby Thoglette » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:41 am

Scott_C wrote:I disagree, part 4 of Rule 122 clearly states you can't ride past a vehicle indicating a left turn on the left of the vehicle with no mention of any exceptions for travelling in another lane. Part 2 of the rule indicates that a vehicle driving in another marked lane is still described as passing a vehicle.

Interesting. I came from the point of view that the vehicle in the right hand lane is attempting to change lanes, not turn left.

But it they are not allowed to occupy the left lane and are thus (?) allowed to turn left from another lane (which is highly unusual) where does this leave them?
Are they changing lanes with permission to then turn left (just like a bus lane?)

I cannot believe that the regs would allow a turn from the not-nearest lane and expect other road users to give way. (Try turning right from the left lane across traffic as an example)
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

jamesh
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:12 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby jamesh » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:43 pm

California's road rules seem to cover this kind of case pretty well:

https://www.sfbike.org/news/bike-lanes-and-right-turns/

Transferring those rules to our traffic directions, the car would need to indicate and merge into the bike lane before the intersection (with all the checking that normal lane changes require), and then take the left turn. A bike travelling straight would pass the car on its right (which should be easy to do, since there will be a gap the width of a bike lane there).

This kind of traffic flow would probably be workable here, but suffer the same problems as in California: most drivers are not aware of the rule so don't follow it.

wellington_street
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:25 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby wellington_street » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:30 pm

jamesh wrote:California's road rules seem to cover this kind of case pretty well:

https://www.sfbike.org/news/bike-lanes-and-right-turns/

Transferring those rules to our traffic directions, the car would need to indicate and merge into the bike lane before the intersection (with all the checking that normal lane changes require), and then take the left turn. A bike travelling straight would pass the car on its right (which should be easy to do, since there will be a gap the width of a bike lane there).

This kind of traffic flow would probably be workable here, but suffer the same problems as in California: most drivers are not aware of the rule so don't follow it.

This is what is required in WA too except for 2 things at Barrack St signals:

1. The traffic lane has a left turn arrow in it meaning it is permitted to turn left from it rather than have to enter the bike lane first

2. The bike lane ends at the stop line of a signalisee intersection so there is no bike lane through the intersection

It is certainly an awkward grey area in the road rules

softy
Posts: 1665
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:44 pm

Re: City of Perth - where is the cycle lanes on Barrack St?

Postby softy » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:40 pm

No no

I saw a red filter light for turning left and a green bicycle light and car light for going straight, yet three cars turned left across a cyclists from both lanes and he had to stop on a green light.

they broke the law flat out, they did it because they couldn't understand why they couldn't turn left. Bicycles don't count!

My advice is be super careful riding along Barrack street and keep ypur speed down.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users