Perth Waterfront

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby just4tehhalibut » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:47 am

"It is time to be smarter about population density." Yep, in the '70s that was discussed and went nowhere. ZPG zero population growth. Every city has whole suburbs to show how that doesn't work.

Anyway, the project needs a name and I propose "the Dead Zone" on account of how it'll kill so much of the city as well as foreshore.
just4tehhalibut
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:02 am
Location: Spearwood, WA

by BNA » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:22 pm

BNA
 

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:22 pm

rustguard wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:but my understanding is that this is being driven by the state government, not developers and not the council

Haha Good onr mate, thats the funniest thing I have heard this week. roflmas.
Man you crack me up!

Care to explain what you mean by that statement?
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:23 pm

just4tehhalibut wrote:Anyway, the project needs a name and I propose "the Dead Zone" on account of how it'll kill so much of the city as well as foreshore.

Any theories on how this project will "kill so much of the city?"
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby madrapper » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:29 pm

RobertFrith wrote:The foreshore plan owes nothing to responsible urban planning and everything to cashing up a government that fancies running another term.

<Pops up head above trenches...>
I'd beg to differ on that point. It would be easy for the gumbyment to do nothing (which they are good at) and keep the sterotypical Perthite (against change) happy.

I just hope they build the bloody thing already! Too many proposals have come and gone - just build it!
Cheers,
Dave
User avatar
madrapper
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:17 am
Location: Perth

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby Marty Moose » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:04 pm

Gee I’m disappointed I was hoping they would turn it back into shallow flats with reeds for all the bird and fish life. Sink the esplanade and make it natural, ban boats on the water and clean up the river. Perth doesn’t need any development if people want that move to Sydney……..
Marty Moose
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: W.A

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:18 pm

Marty Moose wrote:Gee I’m disappointed I was hoping they would turn it back into shallow flats with reeds for all the bird and fish life. Sink the esplanade and make it natural, ban boats on the water and clean up the river. Perth doesn’t need any development if people want that move to Sydney……..

Speaking of wetlands, I like what they have done at Point Fraser. It is so much nicer than the previous dead/dying grass. I noticed in South Perth they have been revegetating the foreshore as well. The plus side of the Point Fraser development is that it also treats stormwater.
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby Marty Moose » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:34 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
Marty Moose wrote:Gee I’m disappointed I was hoping they would turn it back into shallow flats with reeds for all the bird and fish life. Sink the esplanade and make it natural, ban boats on the water and clean up the river. Perth doesn’t need any development if people want that move to Sydney……..

Speaking of wetlands, I like what they have done at Point Fraser. It is so much nicer than the previous dead/dying grass. I noticed in South Perth they have been revegetating the foreshore as well. The plus side of the Point Fraser development is that it also treats stormwater.

Yes thats really great. The upper swan is a mess aswell i used to paddle lots up that way from ascot. Unless we act on our river it will contue to die. I'd rather see our money spent on this type of thing than developments and more speed cameras and alike.
Marty Moose
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: W.A

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby jet-ski » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:38 pm

Totally with you on that Marty Moose - return some natural vegetation to the river - its the only thing that will help filter out all the nasties washed into it from the city.

Problem is people get scared about that idea as well. I have started some very extreme arguments at dinner parties when I have suggested they should rehabilitate the esplanade and replant the native reed beds. Most frequently degenerating into personal attacks!
Xtracycle, Surly Long Haul Trucker, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Giant TCR, 9:zero:7
http://www.perthcyclist.net/blog
User avatar
jet-ski
 
Posts: 1404
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:51 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:19 pm

Marty Moose wrote: The upper swan is a mess aswell i used to paddle lots up that way from ascot. Unless we act on our river it will contue to die. I'd rather see our money spent on this type of thing than developments and more speed cameras and alike.

jet-ski wrote:Totally with you on that Marty Moose - return some natural vegetation to the river - its the only thing that will help filter out all the nasties washed into it from the city.

Problem is people get scared about that idea as well. I have started some very extreme arguments at dinner parties when I have suggested they should rehabilitate the esplanade and replant the native reed beds. Most frequently degenerating into personal attacks!

Constructed wetlands (with endemic plants) all the way up and down the Swan and Canning Rivers to treat stormwater entering the river system is a first step towards a healthier river. It is an important step though and the Point Reserve development demonstrates that the recreation values of the foreshore can be retained and enhanced as well as enhancing the environment. The goal should be to have no untreated stormwater entering the river. Walking in South Perth, I find the native veg nicer and more interesting to look at than dead/dying grass anyway, so... :D
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby rustguard » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:52 am

Good on you casual I think natural is much better than highrise metres from the bank.
I know it is a un-capitalist and maybe un-Australian, but I believe that the banks of waterways should ALL be kept as public spaces for all people to enjoy (yes even people from balga and armadale who will never be able to buy a piece of river) It should be against the law to have a private development within a certain distance of a waterway. Sharing is caring.
A few posters have made the point about water edge development in other city's. I also think that keeping the river and beachfront clear is an investment for future generations. As I said once this goes up it wont be coming down. Thank God for the Langley airstrip otherwise they would already have filled in all this space
rustguard
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:31 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby jet-ski » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:26 am

Yes, and we never would have seen the Red Bull Air Race!
Xtracycle, Surly Long Haul Trucker, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Giant TCR, 9:zero:7
http://www.perthcyclist.net/blog
User avatar
jet-ski
 
Posts: 1404
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:51 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby rolandp » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:24 am

The West today indicates:
CBD traffic to be diverted
Up to 15,000 cars a day will be diverted on to St Georges Terrace, Wellington Street and Graham Farmer Freeway once Riverside Drive is re-routed as part of the Perth waterfront project.
According to Department of Planning traffic modelling, the volume of cars on Riverside Drive will drop from the present figure of 25,000-30,000 per day to about 15,000 per day once the road is routed in 2013 around the back of the Swan River inlet due to be cut into the Esplanade foreshore.
Further details of the $440 million plan were revealed yesterday when project director Glen Finn fronted Parliament's public accounts committee.
Mr Finn said work was due to begin early next year, with the first task to dig the inlet out of the northern portion of the existing Esplanade.


If the present figure of 25,000-30,000 per day will drop to 15,000 per day, were will the 10,000-15,000 cars be going? Surely they won't be using public transport or walking/cycling.
User avatar
rolandp
 
Posts: 1779
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:47 am
Location: Duncraig, Perth, WA

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby redned » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:16 pm

I assume that is the 15,000 being diverted onto the Terrace. It will be a car park, if it isn't already.

They are creating a situation where it will be impossible to drive across the city. Bike it instead!
redned
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:45 pm

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby HappyHumber » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:24 pm

I don't really follow the mainstream WA media. Is there any active protest going on about this development? I think a few more people probably need to get out and support it, rather than whinging from behind their keyboards.
- Kym
Please don't assume I'm on Facebook.
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:07 pm

HappyHumber wrote:I don't really follow the mainstream WA media. Is there any active protest going on about this development? I think a few more people probably need to get out and support it, rather than whinging from behind their keyboards.

+1,000,000
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby HappyHumber » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:25 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
HappyHumber wrote:I don't really follow the mainstream WA media. Is there any active protest going on about this development? I think a few more people probably need to get out and support it, rather than whinging from behind their keyboards.

+1,000,000

I did a search on the ABC News website under the WA specific site for "Perth Waterfront Development" - Skimming back through the articles, in almost made me sick all the previous governments - ALP & Liberal crowing about how it's this sort of thing is needed - back from even around 2008.
- Kym
Please don't assume I'm on Facebook.
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:02 pm

HappyHumber wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
HappyHumber wrote:I don't really follow the mainstream WA media. Is there any active protest going on about this development? I think a few more people probably need to get out and support it, rather than whinging from behind their keyboards.

+1,000,000

I did a search on the ABC News website under the WA specific site for "Perth Waterfront Development" - Skimming back through the articles, in almost made me sick all the previous governments - ALP & Liberal crowing about how it's this sort of thing is needed - back from even around 2008.

This happens on both sides so I am not attacking a party but politics in general. One side will promote something while in power the oppose it in opposition (i.e. Perth/Mandurah Rail line, Perth Stadium, Perth Waterfront). Federally, the one in opposition would lambast the government for sucking up to the US and then suck up themselves when in power. Remember, I am criticising both sides equally for this because they both do it. It's poor. Make a position in opposition, make a stand and then stick to in when in power. This constant backflipping annoys voters.
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby HappyHumber » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:30 pm

Googling a bit further afield - come across some forum with the participants for it - p'ing & m'ing about all the people against it.

'sfunny... with the anonynimity of the internet, every little crackpot point of view or factional pinhead can find a friend and feel better about themselves by lambasting the "others" in swooping great generalisations. Not that we'd ever do that, would we kids?
- Kym
Please don't assume I'm on Facebook.
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:12 pm

HappyHumber wrote:Googling a bit further afield - come across some forum with the participants for it - p'ing & m'ing about all the people against it.

'sfunny... with the anonynimity of the internet, every little crackpot point of view or factional pinhead can find a friend and feel better about themselves by lambasting the "others" in swooping great generalisations. Not that we'd ever do that, would we kids?

Yeah, it's funny that members of certain forums don't p & m about the project when it is announced by one side of politics but when (essentially) the same project is announced by the other side of politics it's the end of Perth as we know it.

FWIW I thought it was a good idea to link the CBD to the river under both governments. Perth is a riverside City but is oriented east-west. To walk from Northbridge to the river is not easy or intuitive. I really feel that even from the mall it's not really that easy to access the river. Connecting the CBD to the river is a great idea!
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby rolandp » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:31 am

Try Perth Waterfront and Urban Planning 1954-93: the Narrows Scheme and the Perth City Foreshore Project if you want to see what the area looked like before it was reclaimed. Luckily the Inner Ring Freeway didn't go ahead (proposed in 1963).

1991 - Premier Carmen Lawrence (lets see who is old enough to remember Carmen as premier) announced a concept diagram of the Perth Waterfront - even included a swan island (sound familiar) and a tram line.

I'm actual for the Perth Waterfront as I think this will bring the City to the river. I want what recent waterfront developments that have occured in the East and overseas to have, which includes cycling infrastructure.

There have been too many recent developments (ie East Perth Trafalgur Bridge, The Link) where it unclear or there isn't, cycle paths. I don't want the Perth Waterfront to miss out on this.

I have responded to recent requests for public feedback and will continue to do so in the future.
User avatar
rolandp
 
Posts: 1779
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:47 am
Location: Duncraig, Perth, WA

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby elStado » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:55 pm

I find it funny that they are only looking into one section, when the entire foreshore is a barren wasteland of rarely used grass and car parking.

As for cycling access, most likely it will be poor if you look at the work CoP has done already in the city and what the stat gov is doing (or not doing) in general. Maybe that bridge will be a large shared area like what they have in Sydney?
Check out my practical cycling and cycle touring website: VELOPHILE AUSTRALIA
User avatar
elStado
 
Posts: 2327
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Location: Riding somewhere around Perth on my Vivente World Randonneur!

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby jet-ski » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:17 pm

The entire foreshore is a barren wasteland? That's a bit harsh elstado - lots of workers use it at lunchtimes to play sports/eat lunch etc, it is often a staging area for tris, free concerts, circuses, the red bull air race etc.... :P I am in the city every day and I appreciate the 'barren wasteland' for all the uses that it has!
Xtracycle, Surly Long Haul Trucker, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Giant TCR, 9:zero:7
http://www.perthcyclist.net/blog
User avatar
jet-ski
 
Posts: 1404
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:51 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby HappyHumber » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:31 pm

jet-ski wrote:The entire foreshore is a barren wasteland? That's a bit harsh elstado - lots of workers use it at lunchtimes to play sports/eat lunch etc, it is often a staging area for tris, free concerts, circuses, the red bull air race etc.... :P I am in the city every day and I appreciate the 'barren wasteland' for all the uses that it has!


+1
I haven't worked in the CBD since the early 00s, but I used to be able to enjoy walking somewhere at lunch that wasn't encased/enclosed or felt like a scaled up flowerbox. Unless you're agoraphobic - what's the bad vibe with open space? I like to think of those lawn foreshore areas kind of like the old concept of a town or village common.

Oh, thanks Roland for the link to that UWA paper. Interesting skim through - and... errgh.. what could've been. :shock: On a similar vein, I recently listened to David Byrne's audiobook of "The Bicycle Diaries" talking in one chapter about those few decades after WWII and the US (and ergo, most of the western world) going nuts for Freeways... Recommended read and/or listen actually. But probably preaching to the converted here ;)
- Kym
Please don't assume I'm on Facebook.
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby blkmcs » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:32 pm

jet-ski wrote:The entire foreshore is a barren wasteland? That's a bit harsh elstado - lots of workers use it at lunchtimes to play sports/eat lunch etc, it is often a staging area for tris, free concerts, circuses, the red bull air race etc.... :P I am in the city every day and I appreciate the 'barren wasteland' for all the uses that it has!

Absolutely; the only people who think it is underused are those who don't use it.
Too old to live, too slow to die.
User avatar
blkmcs
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:44 pm
Location: Bayswater, WA

Re: Perth Waterfront

Postby elStado » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:43 pm

blkmcs wrote:
jet-ski wrote:The entire foreshore is a barren wasteland? That's a bit harsh elstado - lots of workers use it at lunchtimes to play sports/eat lunch etc, it is often a staging area for tris, free concerts, circuses, the red bull air race etc.... :P I am in the city every day and I appreciate the 'barren wasteland' for all the uses that it has!

Absolutely; the only people who think it is underused are those who don't use it.


I work in the city as well, about 100m away from the foreshore area. I never use it because it is flat, barren and boring. Sure there's the occasional event held on it and the occasional worker laying on the grass, but IMO, it is a waste of space considering the potential it has due to it's size, shape, proximity etc to the city centre. I can't name any other decent city where they have ~40ha of prime empty space sitting smack bang on the city foreshore that is only used by a small amount of people and events during certain months of the year... it's a joke. I am all for keeping passive/active open green spaces for people to have lunch, kick a ball, relax, have a concert etc, but you don't need 40ha to do that. :!:
Check out my practical cycling and cycle touring website: VELOPHILE AUSTRALIA
User avatar
elStado
 
Posts: 2327
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Location: Riding somewhere around Perth on my Vivente World Randonneur!

PreviousNext

Return to Western Australia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter