Limit of 3 Rider Packs on Cycle Paths

Limit of 3 Rider Packs on Cycle Paths

Postby JB » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:37 pm

Saw last Saturday's West Australian Paper (pg 3) had an opinion by the Mayor of Perth to limit cyclists to 3 per pack - for safety reason... :roll:

...not the answer imho -

but al least they are talking about the problem of cyclist v pedestrian


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by BNA » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:48 pm

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Postby Funkymonk » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:48 pm

Yeah i dunno , i am in two minds over this . I hada run in with pack of tourists earlier this year in a pack form that decided to have a picnic in the middle of the pathway .... so if they wanna stop for a bbq limit them ... if not get outa tha way
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Postby JB » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:31 pm

The only solution is to have (where the traffic is heavy) dedicated paths- 1 for feet, 1 for wheels.

ps One thing I find kind of odd is this. When I go for walk, say around the South Perth river, I prefer to walk on the nice grass, not the artificial surfaces...

- but I guess that's just me...
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Postby Mulger bill » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:09 pm

Not a bunch rider so I dunno if three is too many or too few.

Dedicated paths is a great idea as long as it's backed up with equitable enforcement of both, with the "tough new laws" smacking peds as hard as the no doubt plan to smack velos.

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Postby Kalgrm » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:26 pm

Well I guess it's okay, as long as they make sure walkers can't travel in packs of more than three also .....

Actually, I'd be happy if they simply painted lines on the bloody paths. With riders and cyclists all over the place like Brown's Cows, it's no wonder people get hurt. Separate paths is definitely the answer, especially on Riverside Drive. It's ridiculous making that many people with such different speed profiles use only one path.

I wonder what they call "a pack"? How far behind do you have to be from the group in front before you're in a separate pack? No worry to me anyway - nobody want 'bents in their group in any case. :cry: ;)

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Postby europa » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:20 pm

Dedicated paths won't work because the pedestrians doing the wrong thing now will continue to do the wrong thing and use the bike path. Besides, I'd rather the money was spent maintaining and extending the existing system of bike paths rather than duplication - save that for when there are good paths everywhere.

A lot of our paths here in Adelaide have a centre line marked. It works very well. Thinking pedestrians remain on 'their' side or move to their side as you pass giving you a clear lane. Of course, the definition of 'their' side is problematic with some working on the 'stay left' principal with others preferring to walk towards the riders so they can see them coming (which I prefer as a cyclist). Regardless of that though, the lines do help to provide a clear lane to pass in.

The problems arise with non-thinking pedestrians and non-thinking cyclists, and I'm afraid those two groups will ignore any rule you pass, including cycle only paths.

As for 'groups of three' only - how often do you get big bunches belting along shared paths at speed (and they should be shot if they are)?
What about club and organised rides? There's a group of old blokes who take regular rides along the Torrens here - are they to be broken up?
I saw a mob of school kids being shepherded by teachers a month back - that'd be a nightmare if you had to break them up.

Daft idea ... so it'll probably become law ... and never be enforced :?

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Postby Kalgrm » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:35 pm

europa wrote:Dedicated paths won't work because the pedestrians doing the wrong thing now will continue to do the wrong thing and use the bike path. Besides, I'd rather the money was spent maintaining and extending the existing system of bike paths rather than duplication - save that for when there are good paths everywhere.

The particular stretch where the tourist was killed by a cyclist a few months ago (on Riverside Drive) is just too busy for both groups to use. Generally, I agree with non-duplication of services, but in this 4km stretch, it's too dangerous not to separate the different users.

I ride that stretch when I commute into the city. I'm on the path between 7.00am and 7.30am, by which time tourists are out for their early morning walks along the river (they stay in the numerous hotels in the city) and scores of commuting cyclists are also on the track. Tourists (being from all over the world) don't know which side to walk on. Commuters want to get to work. And later on we get the commuting walkers who have just disembarked from the ferry which docks at Barrack St.

Conservatively, I would guess that in the 5 minute period I'm on that stretch in the morning for, I:

- pass five other riders going the same direction as me
- get passed by one other rider
- pass twenty walkers going in my direction
- pass thirty walkers going against me.

And it's not even peak period by that time!

On the way home (at around 4.00pm) there are less walkers out for exercise, but more strolling tourists ("aimless wanderers"). During the practice for the Air Race, they would simply stop and crowd the path! I mean, come on! There is 10 to 15m of grass either side of the path to stand on, and they block the only thoroughfare? Gotta get me an Air Zound or a rocket launcher ....

[/rant]

Merry Christmas - I'm going home.

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Postby tallywhacker » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:08 pm

europa wrote:As for 'groups of three' only - how often do you get big bunches belting along shared paths at speed (and they should be shot if they are)?
What about club and organised rides? There's a group of old blokes who take regular rides along the Torrens here - are they to be broken up?
I saw a mob of school kids being shepherded by teachers a month back - that'd be a nightmare if you had to break them up.


sorry, but groups should not be allowed to ride on dual use paths. Today I rode up the Kwinana Freeway path, passed 5 bunches, the smallest was 8 riders, the largest was about 20. Allowing packs like this to speed down a dual use path used by pedestrians (young and old) at speeds upto 40kph is stupidity.
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Postby moosterbounce » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:41 pm

I think this is a waste of time.

1. By law, bikes can only travel in single file on a bike path. Doesn't this make it impossible to ride in a bunch? Even as a paceline, someone would eventually need to drop back making 2 abreast at some point and illegal. Mr Plod needs to police that a bit more.
2. Mum, Dad, 2x kids. How to they ride? Leave one at home? Is this not a bunch? Or will it be limited to adults only? Or those over a certain speed?
3. I'm glad the article mentioned that people were ipods and can't hear bells etc. Maybe make ipods illegal?!


Some people have too much time on their hands.
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Postby twowheels » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:04 pm

JB wrote:ps One thing I find kind of odd is this. When I go for walk, say around the South Perth river, I prefer to walk on the nice grass, not the artificial surfaces...

- but I guess that's just me...


not just you, I agree. I make a point when walking, say around South Perth river to walk next to the path, and especially if I break into a jog. Better for the ankles!
But given that most walkers ignore the warning bell the signs say I should give, when on my bike I just get off road for a while as I pass.
The worst path users i have found are the mothers' groups/packs with those "jogging" prams who walk 2 or 3 across and refuse to leave the path with their four wheel drive buggies to let cyclists through.
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Postby s-s-a » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:09 pm

In Canberra nearly all of the bike paths - and certainly all of the main routes - have centre lines marked. It's almost impossible to ride two abreast without going over the line (at least with handlebars).

The biggest frustration here for me as a cyclist is the minority of pedestrians who walk against the traffic (as you would on the road). And the stupid bike hire place that hires out those four-wheeled things with roof canopies that take up almost the entire path width and are invariably under the "control" of someone who has no idea what they are doing. They are the bicycling equivalent of paddle boats :shock:.

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Postby europa » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:23 pm

s-s-a wrote:The biggest frustration here for me as a cyclist is the minority of pedestrians who walk against the traffic (as you would on the road). And the stupid bike hire place that hires out those four-wheeled things with roof canopies that take up almost the entire path width and are invariably under the "control" of someone who has no idea what they are doing. They are the bicycling equivalent of paddle boats :shock:.

Steph


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thankfully, we don't have the rotten things here :roll:
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Limit of 3 rider packs on cycle paths

Postby cricetidae » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:47 am

It is nice to see a politician getting stuck into the hard problems first.

Never mind that the central city is deserted after 18:00 everynight and no one is open for coffee and now there is only one surviving cinema in the centre of the city. Don't worry about the fact that three quarters of Barrack Street is devoid of businesses.

That would be too easy to solve.

Let's tackle cyclist versus pedestrians on "Dual" purpose pathways. There are faults on both sides of the fence with walkers, tourists, 'ken ipod wearing twits and riders forget that others use the path. The keep left rule applies to riders and walkers but hardly any adhere to this rule on the stretch on both the river side and South Perth side. Yes there are exceptions...

Enforcement is not going to work as it is expensive to get people trained and out there with the ranger services are not able to do it as they have too many other tasks to perform as it is.

Therefore that leaves education and everyone knows how well that works.

The City of Perth Mayor will always value tourists over riders and taxpayers. It is an argument that will not be won for the riders unless all the "BUG" groups all start pushing the political buttons. Start spending and campaigning against a politician and they soon listen.

I have decided after the collision with the roller blader that I am going to ask a relative for a cattle prod and conduct negative re-enforcement.

Thanks for allowing this little rant and I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
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