Cycling road rules changes

Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Aushiker » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:54 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Aushiker wrote:(2) Manufacture of modern pedals (clipless) do not include reflectors;

My SPDs came with compliant reflectors - as a "clip in" which could be left on (dangling below the pedal). No, I don't use them..

What brand and model are they? I cannot find any SPD pedals listed on the Shimano website showing reflectors. Also are they currently on the market in Australia?

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by BNA » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:41 am

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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:41 am

It's a plastic platform arrangement that clips into the bindings of an SPD pedal to make it compliant with ADRs at sale Andrew. IMO it's useless as a platform because it's too small and slippery.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Thoglette » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:26 am

Mulger bill wrote:It's a plastic platform arrangement that clips into the bindings of an SPD pedal to make it compliant with ADRs at sale Andrew. IMO it's useless as a platform because it's too small and slippery.
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That's the one. Agree about the slippery bit - impossible to stand on.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby myk » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:00 pm

I have those Shimano platforms. The idea is you can go for a short ride without changing your shoes.
They work fine for me. They have reflectors because your regular shoes do not.
Do all cycling shoes have heel reflectors?
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby PavII » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:53 pm

I bought SPDs and had to buy those reflectors separately so that I had reflectors (lbs ordered them in for me). Regardless of the legality or otherwise of not riding with reflectors, I prefer to have them on - after looking at other riders in dusk or at night I think they are worth having, they add to visibility and the movement attracts the eye of drivers too. These ones are good as the weight of them keeps them hanging down, so you are always able to clip in as your pedal is always the right way up. I have ridden short distance with the platform, agree with Mulger that it's not much chop but you can go for a spin to the shops without your mountain bike shoes on.

I bought my bike without wheel reflectors, which are also required at night. Tried for ages to buy them, not for sale anywhere. Eventually a lbs just unscrewed some from a shop floor bike and gave them to me, said everyone removes them anyway. My concern was always commuting at dusk or in the dark on a bike that didn't meet the code, gives a driver who hits you a potential way to reduce their own culpability and maybe even avoid responsibility completely (of course, it would never be my fault :) ) Must admit to riding most of this winter without them, not such a big deal with days getting longer. Would be interested to know if anyone else uses them.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:41 am

Sorry Pav but regardless of what the law says, plastic wheel reflectors are a pile of excreta. If you want something better, Google or ebay self adhesive retroreflective tape. It's lighter, fully aero and unlike the plastics it does not have a very narrow effective angle, wherever light comes from, it goes back to. My commuter and roadie both have it on the wheels and my commuter has a few strategically placed strips on the frame too.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby myk » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:50 am

Sorry Mulga,
but conventional wheel reflectors are extremely effective at increasing your visibility.
Corner-reflectors have their pros and cons vs the bead reflectors in tape, so the ideal solution is to use both.
What is your problem with corner reflectors?
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Oxford » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:19 am

buy tyres with reflective sidewalls. though I agree with Mulger Bill and use the tape on my rims if possible.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:15 am

myk wrote:Sorry Mulga,
but conventional wheel reflectors are extremely effective at increasing your visibility.
Corner-reflectors have their pros and cons vs the bead reflectors in tape, so the ideal solution is to use both.
What is your problem with corner reflectors?


Without bothering to dig out the figures, they have an extremely narrow effective angle of reflection, if the light source is more than about 15 degrees off perpendicular to the reflector they don't work. I noticed this again when I rode past a rack of Bluebells in Docklands after dark last week.

I wish Conti would but a reflective strip on Gators :(
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby just4tehhalibut » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:05 pm

If the bike shop hasn't any spoke reflectors they can be ordered from Cateye. There's also a light that looks and acts like a spoke reflector, http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/SL-LD120/ and this might get past those 'angle of reflection' issues. Also, I've just got hold of something else, basically a packet of 3M reflective plastic tubing that clips over each spoke, about 4" long but with 36 makes for a very big moving surface. http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/3m-spoke-reflectors-sekuclip/aid:319131

It wasn't just for weight reasons that I used to take off the spoke reflectors, they just didn't seem secure on the wheels. And I've found that spokes are more likely to come loose at the reflectors. But now you can buy better mounted reflectors and other products. I've also found those flashy lights that screw onto the valve very effective but that maybe because I used the blue and red lights, motorists might confuse these with emergency vehicle lights and slow down.

Good that the road rules have changed regards black mudguards, now if only the cycling bodies could remove some of their archaic rules such as the one banning black socks in competition.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby elStado » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:58 pm

myk wrote:Sorry Mulga,
but conventional wheel reflectors are extremely effective at increasing your visibility.
Corner-reflectors have their pros and cons vs the bead reflectors in tape, so the ideal solution is to use both.


These are even better:

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http://www.mattman.com.au/

Got some on my fixie and they work a treat. Look a little silly during the day though.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Xplora » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:48 pm

Big thumbs up for the change in the mudguard rule... I felt sorry for you lads not being able to get your sexy guards :x
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby elStado » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:04 pm

Xplora wrote:Big thumbs up for the change in the mudguard rule... I felt sorry for you lads not being able to get your sexy guards :x


Oh, we could, that was the annoying thing. In fact it was borderline impossible to buy a compliant white/silver mudguard in a LBS - you had to order them in from OS!
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby rolandp » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:55 pm

Though I appreciate the suggestion of alternatives, the road rules remain. WA still requires reflectors on the pedals and the wheels.

Is is just WA that insists on having reflectors on the pedals?
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Aushiker » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:56 pm

rolandp wrote:Is is just WA that insists on having reflectors on the pedals?


Don't know as yet so sorry can't provide more details. Writing to the Minister is on the to do list so will investigate this aspect further then. In the meantime have a Southern Coast Transit/Public Transport Authority issue to resolve with Minister Buswell first :twisted:

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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby PavII » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:45 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Sorry Pav but regardless of what the law says, plastic wheel reflectors are a pile of excreta. If you want something better, Google or ebay self adhesive retroreflective tape. It's lighter, fully aero and unlike the plastics it does not have a very narrow effective angle, wherever light comes from, it goes back to. My commuter and roadie both have it on the wheels and my commuter has a few strategically placed strips on the frame too.


Mulger, I don't disagree with you about the quality of the wheel reflectors but just don't want someone to worm their way out of responsibility if they hit me. Have done the reflective tape too.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby PavII » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:55 pm

elStado wrote:These are even better:

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http://www.mattman.com.au/


They look fantastic. Tried to order them but website ordering thingy not working, will keep trying.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby PavII » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:58 pm

PavII wrote:... but just don't want someone to worm their way out of responsibility if they hit me...


Does anyone know if this actually happens? eg would a court in WA consider some sort of contributory negligence on the part of a cyclist who didn't have wheel or pedal reflectors, or worst case let the car driving scoundrel off scott free
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby elStado » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:35 pm

PavII wrote:
PavII wrote:... but just don't want someone to worm their way out of responsibility if they hit me...


Does anyone know if this actually happens? eg would a court in WA consider some sort of contributory negligence on the part of a cyclist who didn't have wheel or pedal reflectors, or worst case let the car driving scoundrel off scott free


This is always a potential issue if your bike isn't 100% compliant. Most of the time it won't be an issue, but there have been cases where the charges/liability has been dropped/reduced due to some non-compliance by the bike, even if it was the driver's fault. One case was that s cyclist was injured after being rear-ended by a car, and they reduced/dropped the driver's liability because the cyclist's front light wasn't bright enough. Hopefully one of or other forum members will be able to clarify this case/provide more info, it's just off the top of my head (and occurred in NSW or VIC from memory too).

In regards to ordering the wheel reflector stickers, send Jason an email about ordering it: doormatts2​[email protected]

He'll get you sorted.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Oxford » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:08 pm

elStado wrote:
PavII wrote:
PavII wrote:... but just don't want someone to worm their way out of responsibility if they hit me...


Does anyone know if this actually happens? eg would a court in WA consider some sort of contributory negligence on the part of a cyclist who didn't have wheel or pedal reflectors, or worst case let the car driving scoundrel off scott free


This is always a potential issue if your bike isn't 100% compliant. Most of the time it won't be an issue, but there have been cases where the charges/liability has been dropped/reduced due to some non-compliance by the bike, even if it was the driver's fault. One case was that s cyclist was injured after being rear-ended by a car, and they reduced/dropped the driver's liability because the cyclist's front light wasn't bright enough. Hopefully one of or other forum members will be able to clarify this case/provide more info, it's just off the top of my head (and occurred in NSW or VIC from memory too).

In regards to ordering the wheel reflector stickers, send Jason an email about ordering it: doormatts2​[email protected]

He'll get you sorted.

I think that was a Bendigo Victoria Magistrate who deemed that the front light was supposed to light up 200metres of road (legislation says visible from 200metres) and because it didn't the rider was partially liable even though he was hit from behind. I really hope the rider appealed that decision as it was just wrong in every way.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby soennecken » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 am

rolandp wrote:The changes didn't go far enough. I'm still riding a non-compliant bike (no reflectors on my pedals - 4 penalty units). I'm riding on unmarked shared paths (1 penalty unit), even though I know that they are gazetted shared paths, and I'm crossing on red pedesdrian/cycle lights which are not sync'ed to the correct traffic flow (1 penalty unit). Each of these were requested to be fixed during this review...............


Don't cross on red if you are not sure that conflicting traffic doesn't have a green light. I nearly ran over a cyclist who crossed the freeway north offramp left turn slip road at Karrinyup Road against a red light.The red light for pedestrians/cyclists flashes 8 times, then goes steady red for 2 seconds before the offramp traffic is given green, so he had no excuse to run the red light. If he'd bothered to glance to the right he would have seen the green arrow for the cars bearing down on him. If you want to run a red light, make sure no-one is around to see (or to run you over).
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby missinglink » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:38 pm

My recumbent trike came with reflective pedals and what a waste of time they are. When your feet are in the pedals the front and rear reflectors point up down not to mention my torso obscures the pedals from vehicles behind me!
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Aushiker » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:00 am

Aushiker wrote:Damn that is frustrating as I had hoped with the change to the bicycle regulations this issue had been resolved. Oh, well looks like a bit of research needed to clarify the other states rules and then a letter to the Minister to try and get this fixed. The more people that raise this issue with the Minister for Transport the better


Well got a submission written and off to the Minister of Transport, Troy Buswell. I wonder if I will ever get a reply or better still a change in the regulations.

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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby rolandp » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:31 am

Andrew, thanks for undertaking. If I was Minister of Transport, I would support your letter.
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Re: Cycling road rules changes

Postby Aushiker » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:46 am

Hi

An update. Well I got a response, not from Troy Buswell of course (does this guy actually exist other than on TV? :) * Anyway the full response from Mr Waldock the Director General of the Department of Transport, a very detailed response as you would expect given the effort gone into writing to the Minister in the first place :roll:, can be found here. In summary, Mr Waldock has responded:

DoT is aware that some inconsistencies between the Regulations and the Code remain and that other provisions may be out of date in relation to advances in modern bicycle design.

DoT is planning a further review of the Code and Regulations with a view to repealing unused or irrelevant regulations. The issues you have raised in relation to Regulation 224 of the Code will be considered as part of this process. DoT also
intends to host public and stakeholder consultation sessions in conducting the review.


* Interesting that the Minister for Police and Road Safety, Rob Johnston can sign his own mail, whereas Troy Buswell doesn't bother to reply. I notice that the Fremantle Herald is also getting the same treatment so I am right up there in the MInister's pecking order :)

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