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Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:50 pm
by wexford
For those of you familiar with the bridge across the railway between Perth Arena and the old Entertainment Centre.

I go through here at peak time and each time it's a bit dicey, with peds or cyclists on the wrong side, passing stupidly, or getting confused as to who yields way at those choke points/barriers where you have to switch to the right side of the path and go diagonally back left. I'm one of those who gets confused.

Is there a rule or rule of thumb or just some kind of general philosophy governing how to get through these things? Normally I'd yield to whoever gets there first, or whoever's going the fastest if it's two bikes approaching from several metres back. This morning I was descending on the northern side heading east to Roe St, and at the last instant a guy coming up the other way decided to go through the choke point, then asked "what's wrong with you?!" when I didn't stop/yield way (I got there first and was going faster).

I'll stand corrected if the person going down the bridge needs to yield to someone coming up it, but by now I thought I mostly had it figured out.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:02 pm
by blkmcs
I don't know of any "rule" but if I am descending and someone is climbing then I will always give way to the climber.
It is much easier to regain momentum when descending so it seems the courteous thing to do.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:04 pm
by mikedufty
I usually figure the second to arrive waits for the first. I once got yelled at for not giving way to someone coming up. Hadn't even occurred to me that there was a slope until then, as its pretty flat where the barrier is, and you basically do it at the same speed both ways, but obviously some people think it is important.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:06 pm
by wexford
Yeah, both make sense...if it's close or going to be close then yield to the climber.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:26 pm
by Mulger bill
wexford wrote:Yeah, both make sense...if it's close or going to be close then yield to the climber.

This.

Consider that the climber may be right on the rivet. If forced to stop, they may well have to finish the climb on the "24inch" gear ie two feet. The descender has Sir Isaac to assist.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:16 pm
by fixed
Mulger bill wrote:
Consider that the climber may be right on the rivet. If forced to stop, they may well have to finish the climb on the "24inch" gear ie two feet. The descender has Sir Isaac to assist.


Except no-one should be 'on the rivet' on that bridge. Too busy, too narrow, too slow, too few alternatives.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:02 am
by kellyu
fixed wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:
Consider that the climber may be right on the rivet. If forced to stop, they may well have to finish the climb on the "24inch" gear ie two feet. The descender has Sir Isaac to assist.


Except no-one should be 'on the rivet' on that bridge. Too busy, too narrow, too slow, too few alternatives.


I don't think Mulger Bill meant 'on the rivet' in the Tour de France/flog yourself to death sense of the word, but rather the Mum and Dad cyclists who are just barely managing to cycle up the slope. If you stop them, then it's shank's pony for them until they get to the flat bit over the rail line. If you don't know enough to get in the right gear at the bottom of that bridge, then it's an absolute sod to go up.

Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:28 am
by Mat
I ride over this bridge everyday, my thoughts are if you struggle to ride up the climb you should be walking your bike. It is too narrow and there are too many other people using the bridge.

The other thing...consideration and patience!!! The number of cyclists I see who push by a pedestrian at the last minute astounds me. No wonder people think we're a bunch of arrogant twits.

Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:48 am
by Yagan
I had this the other day. There was plenty of pedestrians walk over the bridge especially near the bottle neck so I just tucked in behind the walkers and cruised. Just as we came to the second gate some idiot on a blue avanti come flying through. An old lady got pushed out the way and up against the railings. When he got to Milligan st straight through the red light. As you said wonder why cyclist get a bad name.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:00 pm
by Karati
I hate this bridge. Hopefully they get rid of it with the redevelopment.

I take the whoever gets there first method. However, depending on what is coming up or coming down I'll let them go past. I can balance and wouldn't like to cause anyone to fall.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:50 pm
by fixed
EPRA are getting rid of it. Its being replaced by an elevated platform and steps. There will be no at-grade crossing at Milligan St. There will be cross streets from King and Queen Streets. The current railway PSP will be replaced/augmented with bike lanes along Wellington and Roe Streets.
Eventually we hope the PSP will move to the north of the rail line and align with Roe St as it passes City West Station.
I'll search for the latest links, but the best I have is a two metre long x 70cm wide photograph of works which came from DoTransport.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:26 am
by rolandp
Fixed, epra is old school they are now mra. In regards to that bridge I have contacted CoP to remove those barriers, they said no and advised me to contact epra who also said no as the area was about to be developed, which was around 3 years ago. Things move quickly in Perth.

I've also got a photo of the sign promising us that the cycle path that was removed to build the arena would be installed. Arena is due to open latter this year so must remember to forward to minister of planning asking when he will finish the path. Surely government won't break this promise :D

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:17 am
by wexford
The whole Arena section is dicey now, with the entire path closed, and peds and cyclists alike forced to cross both Wellington and Milligan to head north or west, then cross Wellington again to rejoin the PSP.

That final crossing back to the north side doesn't have lights - the road is intended only to proceed to the freeway on ramp, which means there's no option but to jaywalk/ride against traffic coming from two directions. There's a traffic guy in high vis at each end, but none of them are actually controlling traffic - all they're doing is advising peds/cyclists where to go.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:19 pm
by Karati
There wasn't anyone there this morning when i went through. There were lots of pedestrians and a few confused cyclists about how to rejoin the path. Poor show and very dangerous...two danger spots actually, when you come off the bridge and turn right towards Milligan street you can't see because of the boarding on the fence till you are all ready around and then having to cross Wellington into Milligan!

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:30 pm
by fab at forty
agreed - i HATE this bridge! coming on, off, over in either direction - i dread it every time!

as for giving way, i generally use common sense and take it on a case by case basis - cyclists going up, being wobbly, or just generally looking less in control than i feel all get preference to me, as does anyone who doesn't stop, or doesn't hear my bell (which i obviously use merely to advise them of my presence and not as an urge to get out of the way).

I have been personally escorted across the road at roe st several times by the very nice man there however, who moved cones out of the way and everything.

But this bridge is just one more reason why i ride my mtb rather than my road bike - much more forgiving of all the dangers that line my commute route, and easier to jump out of the cleats at the last minute on an uphill when something unexpected jumps out at you....

can't wait till the bridge is gone!

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:45 pm
by mitzikatzi
Sometimes when in the City/CBD I get off my bike and walk with it. I don't need a sign or a Law telling me to do it.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:47 pm
by mitzikatzi
Mat wrote:I ride over this bridge everyday, my thoughts are if you struggle to ride up the climb you should be walking your bike. It is too narrow and there are too many other people using the bridge.

The other thing...consideration and patience!!! The number of cyclists I see who push by a pedestrian at the last minute astounds me. No wonder people think we're a bunch of arrogant twits.


+1

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:04 pm
by mikedufty
I tried aberdeen street and the bike path along the freeway then up Loftus street today. Avoids the bridge/wellington street chaos, and the citywest train station, so quite nice, although there are a couple of rather slow traffic lights through northbridge, I think it was generally a more pleasant ride.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:12 pm
by fab at forty
mikedufty wrote:I tried aberdeen street and the bike path along the freeway then up Loftus street today. Avoids the bridge/wellington street chaos, and the citywest train station, so quite nice, although there are a couple of rather slow traffic lights through northbridge, I think it was generally a more pleasant ride.


how did you get there (ie where abouts were you coming from?)

i find getting to the start of the bike path at aberdeen st the most painful part of the ride, haven't decided which is the least painful way yet....

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:08 am
by Bergsey
Hi all, I'm commuting into the city a couple of days a week from freeway north on the PSP. The whole area around the arena is a mess.

I'm going to bank west tower on William st... Anyone know an alternate route?

Also on the way home i used to go king st, wellington st but the south side of Wellington is also dug up!

Cheers

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:06 am
by RoFlmaTiC
I work in the woodside building on Milligan/St George's Tce and I commute from freeway north by jumping over the freeway on the loftus st bridge. You then follow this st down until you're over the fremantle train line and take a left on the psp immediately afterwards. This takes you to the back of harbour town. I turn right after harbour town and then follow George St up to Murray St and turn left into the city from there (used to continue further and cross on the footbridge at the bottom of mount st but don't want to risk riding over and getting fined!). I guess you could take murray st all the way down to william st?

I'm pretty sure that this way is actually faster than if I followed the Mitchell freeway psp to the very end in northbridge and cross via the rail bridge.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:26 pm
by mikedufty
fab at forty wrote:how did you get there (ie where abouts were you coming from?)
i find getting to the start of the bike path at aberdeen st the most painful part of the ride, haven't decided which is the least painful way yet....

I come along the graham farmer freeway path. Cross the railway on the Claisebrook station bridge, under Loed Street and then there is a little side path connecting directly to the end of Aberdeen Street. Works pretty well except for some really long red lights on Aberdeen St.

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:33 pm
by fab at forty
seems like there's no really straightforward route then is there!

i did try turning left at Wellington st instead of going over the bridge, and ended up going via city west and loftus st but thought this was just as messy.

Decisions decisions!

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 am
by Red Rider
Have you tried the Sutherland Street Underpass? It's not on the PSP, but with all the work around Perth Arena and the ped overpass is just too narrow for bikes and peds. The roads around there seem relatively bike friendly.
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-31.945626,115.8473&z=17&t=h&nmd=20120123

Re: Arena/PEC rail bridge

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:01 pm
by Bergsey
RoFlmaTiC wrote:I work in the woodside building on Milligan/St George's Tce and I commute from freeway north by jumping over the freeway on the loftus st bridge. You then follow this st down until you're over the fremantle train line and take a left on the psp immediately afterwards. This takes you to the back of harbour town. I turn right after harbour town and then follow George St up to Murray St and turn left into the city from there (used to continue further and cross on the footbridge at the bottom of mount st but don't want to risk riding over and getting fined!). I guess you could take murray st all the way down to william st?

I'm pretty sure that this way is actually faster than if I followed the Mitchell freeway psp to the very end in northbridge and cross via the rail bridge.


Cheers for that. I've been going a similar way but instead of turning off at harbor town I've been continuing down to the arena / Wellington st. Looks like I'll have to turn off at harbour town then come down Murray.

So I gather on the way home you come straight down hay st.? That is a nightmare coming all the way from the middle of the CBD .... St George's the not much better!