Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

The Conservation Council of WA is running an online petition calling for a 10-cent recycling refund for drink containers in Western Australia. If you complete the personal message part of the petition an email is also sent to the Minister, Bill Marmion.



Andrew

Great cause-I remember when we had a glass bottle refund in WA-some devious entrepreneurs use to nick them from the back of the shop - who stopped it???

I heard that two guys went to one of those music festival things.. Spent the day collecting cans and by the end of the day they had made something like $450 each

ChainBreak wrote:I heard that two guys went to one of those music festival things.. Spent the day collecting cans and by the end of the day they had made something like $450 each

didn't look a little something like this did they?

roller wrote:

ChainBreak wrote:I heard that two guys went to one of those music festival things.. Spent the day collecting cans and by the end of the day they had made something like $450 each

didn't look a little something like this did they?

hahaha most probably

Aushiker wrote:The Conservation Council of WA is running an online petition calling for a 10-cent recycling refund for drink containers in Western Australia. If you complete the personal message part of the petition an email is also sent to the Minister, Bill Marmion.

Andrew

Sent mine off. Didn't see it indicate that the email would be sent to minister on the website, the concern I've got is will this approach work or will it be treated as spam and just get deleted?

rolandp wrote:Sent mine off. Didn't see it indicate that the email would be sent to minister on the website, the concern I've got is will this approach work or will it be treated as spam and just get deleted?

If you are sending a personal message it is not spam and really should be treated properly by the Minister or rather his office.

Andrew

Aushiker wrote:

rolandp wrote:Sent mine off. Didn't see it indicate that the email would be sent to minister on the website, the concern I've got is will this approach work or will it be treated as spam and just get deleted?

If you are sending a personal message it is not spam and really should be treated properly by the Minister or rather his office.
Andrew

You should get an automated reply from Marmion's office confirming reception

What a great idea done No more glass and less rubbish its a no brainer really.

MM

Thanks for the heads up Andrew.
Petition signed, acknowledgement from the minister's office received.

There have been some pretty big teething problems for it here in the NT, a lot of it to do with what the drink companies accept back.

- For starters, the price for anything sold using these eligible containers appears to have gone up disproportionately
- I think the model is that you return your containers to a depot who pay you the 10c, and then that depot sorts them and returns them to the drink maker who then pays the depot. The drink makers are refusing to accept more containers at the moment, so most of the depots have closed while they sort it out
- The containers need to be cleaned and uncrushed
- Dropping your containers off at the depot to be counted and sorted often takes at least 30mins, usually a fair bit longer

Now, I agree with the idea and support it wholeheartedly, but it needs to be done well, and it needs the support of the drink makers (not the subversion that they seem to be trying now).

Way back in the late 90s I was in Switzerland. There you could take your containers to the shop, put them in a machine which gave you a receipt. You took the receipt to the checkout and got the value off your purchase. Worked a treat.

Andrew

Just the the bottlers and big companies making it difficult, I reckon. If they were embracing it properly they'd be learning off S.A., or places like Switzerland.

WestcoastPete wrote:For starters, the price for anything sold using these eligible containers appears to have gone up disproportionately.

Exactly - anything you get in these containers will be at least 10c more expensive - the heading makes it sound like you are getting paid something for recycling them. In fact, what you are getting is a refund of the deposit you paid at the POS.

I unvolunteer to pay more.

A similar thing has happened since they banned free plastic bags up here. It sounded like a great idea to me and has certainly changed what some people do in regards to taking reusable bags, but plenty of people just pay the extra 10c or whatever it is for plastic bags and the profit - and there's plenty of it - goes to the supermarket.

It can be really hard to implement a good idea...

RonK wrote:I unvolunteer to pay more.

As an armchair economist, the problem with these containers (and a bunch of other things) is that the purchase price currently does not include the cost of disposal.

You are already paying more - through your council fees (for cleaning up [Edit -and bin emptying and recyclable sorting]); through your medical/medicare insurance (every time someone has to get stiched up); every time you have to work late because you were late in due to a glass induced puncture. And every time you buy a new tube (or a bottle of Stans) because of a glass puncture.

The point of such schemes is to put that cost back where it belongs - on the retail price tag.

It is also a side benefit that cash at return provides an incentive which will create more efficient return paths (not only are scouts and winos cheaper than council workers, whole containers are much easier to move than fragments of glass scattered across the road)

Oh, and the deposit should be more like $1 - ten cents in 1977 is about 55c now according to CPI (which always understates actual inflation)

Let me say it again - you are already paying. And probably more than the deposit.

So one person smashes a bottle on a PSP. Causes punctures. Someone then reports it. Then someone goes to clean it up. How much did that cost?
-10c for bottle
tubes? 5x$5?
reported 10c
Cleanup, well lets see. Gets reported, then someone gotta tell who to clean it up, so about 2-3 people doing that so lets say $50 including petrol. Sounds a bit silly not to get it back

RonK wrote:

WestcoastPete wrote:For starters, the price for anything sold using these eligible containers appears to have gone up disproportionately.

Exactly - anything you get in these containers will be at least 10c more expensive - the heading makes it sound like you are getting paid something for recycling them. In fact, what you are getting is a refund of the deposit you paid at the POS.

I unvolunteer to pay more.

Incorrect....

Do a search on boozle.com.au and you will find prices are the same in WA as they are in SA, for example Vintage Cellars and Cellarbrations in both states have Crown Lager out for $42.50 per carton.

I grew up in SA and used to earn my pocket money by walking the streets with a garbage bag picking up cans and bottles. Back then ( circa 1980 ) I could pick up $5 - $10 per week and that was when it was 5c a can/bottle. A day at the footy alone would reap about 100 cans.Up until my move to WA in the late 90's I still collected my cans and bottles I used and once a month took them to the recycle depot ( uncleaned and uncrushed ) where they sorted them out accordingly.

It still amazes me that the rest of Australia has taken so long to follow

WestcoastPete wrote:(in NT) - The containers need to be cleaned and uncrushed

That's an interesting restriction, because it seems to introduce a separate issue.

Years ago, glass milk and Coke bottles were reused. I don't know how the energy, water etc involved compares to recycling or making new bottles, but that was a benefit to getting the bottles back undamaged.

The deposit scheme doesn't have to be about reuse or even recycling.
If you pay a deposit at purchase then get it back when you put the container in the bin, in any condition, then you have the incentive to reduce littering.

I agree that it sounds like obstruction. I wonder if deposit schemes really would reduce their sales?

rollin66 wrote:I grew up in SA and used to earn my pocket money by walking the streets with a garbage bag picking up cans and bottles. Back then ( circa 1980 ) I could pick up $5 - $10 per week and that was when it was 5c a can/bottle. A day at the footy alone would reap about 100 cans.Up until my move to WA in the late 90's I still collected my cans and bottles I used and once a month took them to the recycle depot ( uncleaned and uncrushed ) where they sorted them out accordingly.

Does anyone else remember in WA getting like 10c per 1 litre glass cool drink bottle when you took them back to the local Supermarket? That was up until about ~'82 if my memory serves, a few years before the PET bottles took off. I too also remember a campaign on telly when they began to push aluminium can recycling. They had some kid spruiking about getting new bikes, skateboards etc by saving up his "60 cents a kilo!" of returned cans.

I think the advertisers really underestimated the intelligence of kids - I remember taking the mickey out of the ads with my mates. We all were still bemoaning the loss of the bottle refund. 6 empty coke bottles were a lot easier to collect than a kilograms worth of empty aluminium cans! Not too mention how many kilos you would then need to actually save up for a bike or skateboard!

Looks like there has been some movement on the possibility of a container deposit scheme.

Environment Minister Bill Marmion has given his strongest indication yet that people could be paid to recycle bottles and cans after saying he was growing more supportive of the idea.

Mr Marmion conceded yesterday the Barnett Government could be forced soon to look at new ways of boosting WA's recycling rate amid the State's continually poor track record.

More in the West Australian.

You can let Minister Marmion know your views at Minister.Marmion@dpc.wa.gov.au.

Andrew

RonK wrote:I unvolunteer to pay more.

So we'll send you the clean up bill then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Paci ... bage_Patch