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city west path & othertaking
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:44 pm
by uglybob
to the cyclists who attempt to pass people on the city west path along the trainline:
i don't know if you are trying to impress the girls getting on & off the train, if you're trying to set a strava record, or if you have the IQ of a watermelon. that path would have to be one of the most dangerous ones to ride at the best of times, let alone when morons attempt to overtake others, especially in the bends below the train station.
i've ridden past a cyclist who was collected by someone coming the other way. he ended up missing a set of front teeth, as well as a broken neck. its only a matter of time before it happens again - and i'd prefer if it wasn't me that was collected.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:42 pm
by ColinOldnCranky
I am guessing that you referring to the bit that is a bit of a chicane for those on path and a ped crossover at about the same spot.
There was a serious incident there last year. It could have been worse.
http://btawa.org.au/campaigns/principal ... -west-psp/
City West PSP
Details of the Crash at City West on the 26.5.2011
This crash between two cyclists happened at 0745 on a Thursday morning.. The BTA has been highlighting the dangers of this section of the PSP for well over three years, but MainRoadsWA seem to be unable to act to make it safer.
Here is what apparently happened:
Cyclist A was travelling westward along the bike path towards the first bend and pedestrian crossing at the Eastern pedestrian exit from the City West train station, where Dehli Street intersects the bike path. Some distance from the pedestrian crossing he explored the possibility of overtaking pedestrians travelling westward in front of him along the path on the left side. Cyclist A began to move across to the middle / right side of the path to check for bike path traffic coming the other way before overtaking.
Cyclist A saw cyclist B coming directly towards him and they impacted before cyclist A had time to veer left. It appears that he point of impact was cyclist B’s face into the shoulder of cyclist A. The bike of cyclist A appeared mostly undamaged.The bike of cyclist B had a shattered top tube, cracked forks and perhaps further damage.
Most people riding bicycles who use this section of path on a regular basis have some perception that the mix of pedestrians, cyclists and the layout and slope of the path can create dangerous situations. In this case it would appear that neither Cyclist A or B had time to veer away from each other.
Cyclist B was admitted to hospital as inpatient, with neck injuries and the front top 4 teeth knocked out/in, and bruising.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:53 pm
by uglybob
that exact point.
its scary how many people think thats a good place to overtake slower riders & peds. people getting on & off trains, cyclists all around the place - its busy pretty much all day round.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:58 pm
by eldavo
Thought the same Mon/Tue morning heading east at that pictured crossing as a dropkick overtook at the blind pre-per crossing lines, solid line, vision blocked by the apartment building.
I coast from the west top end and still roll through there at 20kph covering brakes for unexpected.
Plain clothes jeans, jumper, glasses, 45yo+ Caucasian, rear basket stuff rattling, yellow top 90's helmet. Could have caught him but didn't think potential for positive words were high, thinking 'absolute f'n idiot'.
Same thought for the fast road race pack of 7 running oncoming riders off crossing of karrinyup rd. Bridge northbound, so generalisations of visuals not useful. Hate to cross them at city west section.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:19 pm
by craigg
Even in the photo above you can see cyclists being idiots. There's clearly people on the zebra crossing, the cyclist in red looks like he has no intention of yielding right of way to the pedestrians and is riding on the wrong side in the oncoming lane. The other cyclist also appears to have crossed without yielding to the pedestrians and in the oncoming lane.
One option would be to place those overlapping steel pipe thingies on the PSP on either side of the zebra crossings, (like you have on the pedestrian bridge crossing the railway near the perth stadium thingy). This would force cyclists to slow down and reinforce the right of way for pedestrians.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:36 pm
by ColinOldnCranky
craigg wrote:Even in the photo above you can see cyclists being idiots. There's clearly people on the zebra crossing, the cyclist in red looks like he has no intention of yielding right of way to the pedestrians and is riding on the wrong side in the oncoming lane. The other cyclist also appears to have crossed without yielding to the pedestrians and in the oncoming lane.
Hard to tell off a still. Typical walkers will be about 3 to 4kph, if he is going at a modest double that, or even slower then he is safe to clear them and the intersection without any fuss.
And if the walkers have given an indication that they are stepping behind then it does no-one any good for the rider to not take it and stop instead. It is after all an intersection that can get a whole lot more complicated in a few seconds - peds crossing, cyclists riding the other way (many at speed).
It's not my usual ride but I do go thru there occasionally and. being aware of it's notoriety, I always have give it a goo dlook and imagine being in certain situations there. At a modest speeds there and no-one coming rushing out of the railway ped crossing to the left the visibility to oncoming cyclists is ok. To me it is mostly dangerous because of, as UglyBob said, people thinking it is a good place to or just plain speedsters riding as though there is no chance of crossing traffic. Especially if two or more cyclists are at a fast clip.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:43 pm
by CycleSnail
I believe there was a design to create small islands on the two ped crossings, which would allow peds safer crossing and also slow the cyclists down a bit. The problem with actually building it is the complex ownership of this section of path (MainRoads, PTA, City of Perth).
Furthermore there are draining issues (water from the path sometimes goes into the basement of the adjacent buildings) and the two access routes to the platforms do not meet all the recent disability standards. It seems a case of two steps forward and one back .....
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:30 pm
by Trepidious
CycleSnail wrote:
Furthermore there are draining issues (water from the path sometimes goes into the basement of the adjacent buildings) and the two access routes to the platforms do not meet all the recent disability standards. It seems a case of two steps forward and one back .....
It's even more of a worry when you consider that the main Disability Services Commission building is around the corner on Colin Street. You'd think they'd be aware of issues in their own neighbourhood but it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't...
Should the chicane be removed and the path be made straight through? There are similar issues at Glendalough train station but with the lack of buildings there's enough vision to avoid any issues with pedestrians (or at least in my experience). Maybe force bike traffic up Colin Street and down Delhi Street avoiding the train station altogether?
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:38 am
by ColinOldnCranky
Trepidious wrote:CycleSnail wrote:
Furthermore there are draining issues (water from the path sometimes goes into the basement of the adjacent buildings) and the two access routes to the platforms do not meet all the recent disability standards. It seems a case of two steps forward and one back .....
It's even more of a worry when you consider that the main Disability Services Commission building is around the corner on Colin Street. You'd think they'd be aware of issues in their own neighbourhood but it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't...
Should the chicane be removed and the path be made straight through? There are similar issues at Glendalough train station but with the lack of buildings there's enough vision to avoid any issues with pedestrians (or at least in my experience). Maybe force bike traffic up Colin Street and down Delhi Street avoiding the train station altogether?
It may be that the solution, poor though it is, is to put in some form of traffic taming. I'd hate to see that approach but if riders continue to ignore the obvious hazards there, and there is not workable engineering solution, then all riders, responsible or otherwise, may windup sharing the burden imposed by a number of idiots.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:36 am
by jlh
Rode through here today and noted paint markings on the path, and a sign indicating works would commence this month. Hopefully its an improvement.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:29 am
by Thoglette
ColinOldnCranky wrote:It may be that the solution, poor though it is, is to put in some form of traffic taming. I'd hate to see that approach but if riders continue to ignore the obvious hazards there, and there is not workable engineering solution, then all riders, responsible or otherwise, may windup sharing the burden imposed by a number of idiots.
Traffic taming it is, based on the yellow dots. Mini round-abouts.
Unfortunatley Idiots abound. Coming through Leederville this morning a group of westbound "serious riders" was swearing at a Pilbara Bee. How dare he actually walk across the path!
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:56 am
by eldavo
Yeah saw those, good news looks like the symptom will be solved, but problem idiots will just be found elsewhere.
What is a pilbara bee, cochney pedestrian crossing?
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:05 pm
by Aushiker
eldavo wrote:What is a pilbara bee...
I am guessing someone in high-viz gear.
On the subject of traffic calming, I also feel that this is a good idea for this section. It is a pity but that the Police don't start doing some hotspot policing here as well. That may have a desired impact on those riders who seem to feel that they own the place.
I still remember a woman on a bike in this area who felt ringing her bell justified her forcing her way across the pedestrian crossing leaving the peds with no choice but to get out her way. No wonder we cop flak with this sort of behaviour. Imagine doing that to her when driving a car.
Andrew
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:14 pm
by Pravda
While I don't in anyway condone the way a lot of people ride along that section of path it is a bloody stupid place to have the shared path link up given the number of passengers who get off the train at City West. A long-term solution would be to move it completely or separate the peds and cyclists however I don't see that happening any time soon.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:28 pm
by Aushiker
Pravda wrote:While I don't in anyway condone the way a lot of people ride along that section of path it is a bloody stupid place to have the shared path link up given the number of passengers who get off the train at City West. A long-term solution would be to move it completely or separate the peds and cyclists however I don't see that happening any time soon.
I suspect that in times past it was quite okay but public transport usage and path usage has changed and the infrastructure has not kept up. I believe that long-term solutions are being looked at. CycleSnail (
BTAWA) probably has more information on what is being considered.
Andrew
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:08 pm
by wellington_street
"Serious riders" might want to be careful abusing Pilbara Bees as Pilbara Bee is quite often a very large and strong gentleman who may not appreciate the aggressive overtures.
In Aushiker's example, force the wrong pedestrian out of the way and he might just tip you over
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:50 pm
by Pravda
wellington_street wrote:"Serious riders" might want to be careful abusing Pilbara Bees as Pilbara Bee is quite often a very large and strong gentleman who may not appreciate the aggressive overtures.
In Aushiker's example, force the wrong pedestrian out of the way and he might just tip you over
They just have to catch them first!
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:52 pm
by Phil
Going through there yesterday looks like some "bicyclular" traffic calming/pedestrian islands are being planned.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:27 pm
by eldavo
a.k.a. new jumps for the MTB commuters (unless they put screens up to block the shortcuts like at Lake Monger)
PS: Seeing the abused high vis ped giving the abuser cyclists a clipped in near stationary "only pride hurt" fall would be funny justice for bad manners... but I'm sure in reality that would cross enough lines for it to all end badly.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:32 pm
by uglybob
eldavo wrote:a.k.a. new jumps for the MTB commuters (unless they put screens up to block the shortcuts like at Lake Monger)
jumps can be fun on the roadie too!
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:40 pm
by eldavo
Yeah I think the ability is not with the bike, even with all the gear I have no idea =D I saw a guy at speed on his MTB commuter skinny tyres I was following set a big jump at the unnamed park northbound PSP prior to Warwick station. Deserved a crowd and applause but it was just me out of breath and trying to just hop the crack in curb not a 2 foot landing onto the road 5 metres ahead.
On topic no incident this morning in this path section and waited on pedals for a ped to go through.
I did think better clock KoM on Strava here before it's forever changed to have an ever lasting record =D
(joking, never used Strava and this idea I'm sure will see many into it having a crack)
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:40 pm
by wexford
I'm a heavy (addicted) Strava user and already flagged that segment as dangerous. Then someone went and made a new one anyway
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:56 pm
by Aushiker
wexford wrote:I'm a heavy (addicted) Strava user and already flagged that segment as dangerous.
Good move. Seriously not an appropriate place for a Strava segment.
Andrew
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:03 pm
by eldavo
Is there a commuter "i am about to do a strava time" signal?
A guy with zipps doing about the same trip speed, seemed to go in section bursts on the flat.
I wondered if he was saving for a segment then going flat out, or just putting the Zipps to use he had.
Re: city west path & othertaking
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:42 am
by Thoglette
Aushiker wrote:eldavo wrote:What is a pilbara bee...
I am guessing someone in high-viz gear.
The reflective stuff eventually goes black(ish). So you get yellow and black stripes. Add FIFO (fly in fly out) and voila.....