Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:18 am

The RAC in WA has posted a list of the 10 worst intersections in Perth in 2012. This intrigued me as intersections, particularly roundabouts are also a significant issue for cyclists [1]. Also given that the RAC likes to promote itself as a mobility organisation and it is our representative as vulnerable road users on the Road Safety Council I thought it might be a good idea to gather feedback from cyclists on which intersections they consider the worst. Maybe the RAC could then use this data to frame their own more in-depth survey or better still actually use the data to lobby on our behalf, right?

So to get the ball rolling here are what the RAC like to call their Red Spot worst intersections. How do these intersections rate from a cyclists’ perspective? Would you ride them? Are their worst intersections for you as a cyclist?

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by BNA » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:02 am

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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby just4tehhalibut » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:02 am

Sorry but your title is wrong, a few on that RAC list are intersections that involve traffic jams of the motor vehicular kind and are bad for cycling but not necessarily bad for cyclists. For instance the bit of Tonkin Hwy that always closes up in peak hour I can get by on the shoulder, I'm safe and more mobile that the cars as long as no nutter tries the shoulder as an express lane or I have to cross lanes. The bit on Roe is irrelevant, I'd be on the PSP there. The RAC's list isn't dangerous intersections, it is just bad traffic zones.

If you want to make up a new list, intersections bad for the health of cyclists, I'd nominate for the roundabout at Safety Bay Rd/Read St/Warnbro Sound Ave. In peak hour traffic is jammed up on all entry points and the two lanes are treated like a speedway track, no ground is to be given. The roundabout itself is open and good sightlines, what makes it so dangerous is the very aggressive drivers.
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:12 am

just4tehhalibut wrote:Sorry but your title is wrong, a few on that RAC list are intersections that involve traffic jams of the motor vehicular kind and are bad for cycling but not necessarily bad for cyclists.


You have lost me. How can it be wrong? It is simply posing the question: Which Perth intersections are bad for cyclists.

For instance the bit of Tonkin Hwy that always closes up in peak hour I can get by on the shoulder, I'm safe and more mobile that the cars as long as no nutter tries the shoulder as an express lane or I have to cross lanes. The bit on Roe is irrelevant, I'd be on the PSP there. The RAC's list isn't dangerous intersections, it is just bad traffic zones.


That is fine. That is the RAC list based on their survey of members and without a doubt represents the motorist's perspective, hence my interest in the cyclist perspective.

If you want to make up a new list, intersections bad for the health of cyclists, I'd nominate for the roundabout at Safety Bay Rd/Read St/Warnbro Sound Ave. In peak hour traffic is jammed up on all entry points and the two lanes are treated like a speedway track, no ground is to be given. The roundabout itself is open and good sightlines, what makes it so dangerous is the very aggressive drivers.


Thanks. That is what I am asking for.

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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby Pravda » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:51 pm

Hutton Street Freeway exit where the PSP crosses is bad.
Not hugely dangerous but cyclists having to cross at least 7 lanes to continue on their journey.
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby stealthbike » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:00 pm

I would argue that some intersections are bad for cyclists but are necessarily dangerous for cyclists per se. However, because they are bad for cyclists, it results in cycling behaviour that is then dangerous.
The specific intersection I have in mind is George St and Wellington St Perth. The cycle of the traffic lights is heavily favoured towards motorists and frequently a cyclist/pedestrian will have to wait for two full cycles before getting a green signal. The outcome of this is that the vast majority give up waiting and cross on the red. It is made worse by breaking the green crossing sequence across Wellington St into two, so a person can get half way across the road but is then met with a red light in the middle island.

I have raised this issue with Main Roads WA and their response was that this intersection is a feeder for the freeway and therefore motorists get priority. Also the cycle path was built later (it connects the Kwinana PSP to the Fremantle PSP), so cyclists needs could not be accommodated.
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby wellington_street » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:18 pm

stealthbike wrote:I would argue that some intersections are bad for cyclists but are necessarily dangerous for cyclists per se. However, because they are bad for cyclists, it results in cycling behaviour that is then dangerous.
The specific intersection I have in mind is George St and Wellington St Perth. The cycle of the traffic lights is heavily favoured towards motorists and frequently a cyclist/pedestrian will have to wait for two full cycles before getting a green signal. The outcome of this is that the vast majority give up waiting and cross on the red. It is made worse by breaking the green crossing sequence across Wellington St into two, so a person can get half way across the road but is then met with a red light in the middle island.

I have raised this issue with Main Roads WA and their response was that this intersection is a feeder for the freeway and therefore motorists get priority. Also the cycle path was built later (it connects the Kwinana PSP to the Fremantle PSP), so cyclists needs could not be accommodated.


I assume you are talking about the PSP north-south crossing there. MRWA have actually used a non-standard arrangement with the vehicle phasing to allow extra time for peds and cycles to cross the southern half of Wellington Street. If you look at the phasing, the westbound through movement on Wellington Street actually goes red while the right turn onto freeway north has a green phase - this is very unusual given there's no opposing right turn and clearly something done to reduce crossing time for cyclists.

Correct me if I am wrong but I also think the ped/cycle phase is automatically activated without requiring a push of the button. This is again something out of the ordinary for MRWA.

I don't think there is anything else you can reasonably do to this junction other than grade-separating the PSP. An expensive proposition, that is unlikely to be funded until after the WABN projects are complete.
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby moosterbounce » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:49 pm

Pravda wrote:Hutton Street Freeway exit where the PSP crosses is bad.
Not hugely dangerous but cyclists having to cross at least 7 lanes to continue on their journey.


Yes yes yes!!

In peak hour, you struggle to get across and no priority is given to cyclists/peds at all. You just wait for a break in the traffic. I've seen some dumb moves by cyclists there in a hurry to beat their best time. This section needs a bridge or something. I never thought I'd say it, but it is often safer going through ossie park instead...and that amazes me!!
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby higdawg » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:08 pm

The roundabout on Safety Bay Rd at Ennis Ave is terrible, there are car lanes and cycle lanes and crossings going everywhere.
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby mitzikatzi » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:49 am

Pravda wrote:Hutton Street Freeway exit where the PSP crosses is bad.
Not hugely dangerous but cyclists having to cross at least 7 lanes to continue on their journey.


Get off the PSP at Hector Street or McDonald St ( then ride on Frobisher to Hector)

Ride on Hector to Cnr of Hector and King Edward then cross freeway on overpass foot bridge to re join PSP.

Usually this route is much quicker than trying to cross the freeway on Hutton Street
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby Pravda » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:09 am

mitzikatzi wrote:
Pravda wrote:Hutton Street Freeway exit where the PSP crosses is bad.
Not hugely dangerous but cyclists having to cross at least 7 lanes to continue on their journey.


Get off the PSP at Hector Street or McDonald St ( then ride on Frobisher to Hector)

Ride on Hector to Cnr of Hector and King Edward then cross freeway on overpass foot bridge to re join PSP.

Usually this route is much quicker than trying to cross the freeway on Hutton Street


I generally get on the PSP at that intersection from the Eastern Side (Coming down Royal St) so that solution doesn't really help too much, though would make it easier for people going through.
The PSP shouldn't really cross there at all, there's plent of room for it to go under Hutton ST and continue along the Eastern Side of the Freeway though I doubt we're likely to see any changes like that any time soon.
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Re: Which Perth Intersections are bad for Cyclists?

Postby bianchi928 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Pravda wrote:Hutton Street Freeway exit where the PSP crosses is bad.
Not hugely dangerous but cyclists having to cross at least 7 lanes to continue on their journey.


+1 although can be a bit hairy at times.
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