Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby scirocco » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:05 pm

The West Australian this morning has a notice for contractors to express interest in the upgrade of the PSP from Thelma St to the Narrows. Reconstruction to 500mm depth with concrete slabs and re-stabilisation of the river wall is included. The PSP is to be realigned under the Thelma St footbridge. They are calling it a "minor capital project" but sounds as if it is going to be properly done, not just a lick of paint type job. Closes on the 4th of October.

Good to see, that section is the worst on the Kwinana Freeway PSP.
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by BNA » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:52 pm

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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Pushy » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:52 pm

"Concrete slabs"? must be some sort of traffic calming measure. I see expansion joints and cracks due subsidence. I'd love to be wrong.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Red Rider » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:53 pm

Well spotted scirocco! I doubt they would do anything other than the brown bitumen like the PSP south of Thelma overpass. But I wonder what the concrete slabs are for... maybe for fixing the river wall north of Hardy St overpass.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Tornado » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:39 pm

While we are on the Kwinana PSP. What's the deal with that spongy bit near Mundijong Road? That is crap.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:45 pm

Tornado wrote:While we are on the Kwinana PSP. What's the deal with that spongy bit near Mundijong Road? That is crap.


Ah that spot. I complained about it last year and they were trying to solve the problems with it always cracking so that is their best solution to date
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Tornado » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:20 pm

I rode over it on Thursday and it was just like a sponge. Hope they find a solution.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:52 am

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=56788&p=857586&hilit=mundijong#p857586

Been there for a year now with no change so what do you reckon...
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Tornado » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:27 am

I'm not hopeful
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby jlh » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:29 pm

I reckon its an effin joke
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Tornado » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:53 pm

jasonlheath wrote:I reckon its an effin joke

Went through there yesterday. It's a little firmer in the dry but not much. Can't be that hard to fix. The Freeway 20mt to the side of it is fine.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby scirocco » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:05 pm

Red Rider wrote:I doubt they would do anything other than the brown bitumen like the PSP south of Thelma overpass. But I wonder what the concrete slabs are for... maybe for fixing the river wall north of Hardy St overpass.


The notice said that they would free issue granite slabs for the riverwall stabilisation. I read it as that the concrete slabs were for the path itself, especially as they mentioned a 500mm excavation depth.

Sounds like a bit more than a layer of red/brown tarmac. And yes, I'd also be concerned about subsidence at the joints if they don't install them right.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby chuckchunder » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:03 pm

The add only refers to 500sqm of slabs, but 11,000sqm of red asphalt. The section between Thelma St overpass and the Narrows Bridge includes the section alongside the Millpoint Rd on-ramp, this area is treated with concrete slabs. Perhaps the slabs are more likely for use in an area similar to this? Perhaps under the Thelma St overpass following re-alignment of the path similar to the treatment around the Preston St overpass at Como Jetty.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby jonhanson » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:06 pm

We ride that bit of the freeway on our river loop Tuesday and Thursdays. We've decided not to ride it anymore as it's just too dangerous with bicycles, corners where you can't see what's coming, people riding two abreast. Admittedly we do go reasonably quick ourselves sometimes. So we now go over the first footbridge after Canning Bridge and down Labouchere Rd which is much more pleasant. I'd also hate to be a walker on that stretch with the bikes flying past at speed. First bit of nice weather this morning and there were heaps more bikes out. Someone said it well on here previously - we've got to remember these are shared paths for cyclists and pedestrians.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby scirocco » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:25 am

jonhanson wrote: Someone said it well on here previously - we've got to remember these are shared paths for cyclists and pedestrians.


Really there is such heavy bike traffic south of the Narrows that it should be separated. There's not so much foot traffic compared to bikes anyway on the Mill Point Rd to Comer St section - its from there to Thelma there tend to be a few more pedestrians.

I know that some sections of the path from Thelma to the Narrows are limited by the closeness of the river and the freeway, but you would hope on the wider sections they might be able to separate out a pedestrian lane from the bike lanes as has already been done in some areas. Even if it was just markings it would be better than nothing and add a bit of discipline for all parties.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby jonhanson » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:44 am

Agree. Who would be the department to lobby to bring about such a change ?
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby citywomble » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:19 am

Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade
by jonhanson » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:44 am

Agree. Who would be the department to lobby to bring about such a change ?


Main Roads WA.

They are responsible for Primary Shared Paths (PSPs) which are within freeway corridors. Remind them that the Austroads Guidelines should be adhered to and that separate paths (and not shared paths) are required where significant cyclist volumes conflict with pedestrians.

If PSPs are to provide a high volume, faster speed (more than 20 kph) cycling/commuting facility then that cannot be on a shared path where pedestrians have full right of way and cyclists only have virtually automatic legal liability for any accident. That is not a fit and proper bike path and could see cyclists held liable both criminally and civilly for the consequences which would not be the case if they were proper bike paths with cyclist priority.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby GingaNinja » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:00 pm

A shared path it is, yesterday I narrowly avoided a collision with a ped just before south perth turn off.
I was heading south after the narrows with a runner heading south on the compacted side of the path. As I cycled up to her she turned across my path (without looking) ~8mtres in front of me (that is 1.5seconds of reaction time before collision). To avoid a collision, I braked really hard and went over the top of my bike. Lost skin on shoulder, hip, elbow, knee, hand. and now looking forward to a couple of weeks of recovery. so a couple of people have said "her fault for not looking, so her bad luck if there is a collision".
Interestingly, it was 7.10am so less bikes and a few extra runners.
The runner admitted she couldn't hear my bell over the noise of the traffic.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby Baalzamon » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:58 pm

Peds have right of way. Simply slow down when in pedestrian traffic and most incidents can be avoided.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby mich rolling » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:39 am

Why didn't you ring your bell?
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby jlh » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:09 am

mich rolling wrote:Why didn't you ring your bell?



In the post it says the runner didn't hear the bell over traffic, so they did ring their bell.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby scirocco » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:30 am

Baalzamon wrote:Peds have right of way. Simply slow down when in pedestrian traffic and most incidents can be avoided.


Agreed in general, but I think the thrust of this thread is that the PSP south of the narrows is one place where this ought to be changed by separation and changing of responsibility as citywomble has suggested. Overly simplistic to just say "slow down". You could slow everything down everywhere and avoid any problems but there has to be a balance between usability while still keeping people safe. Proper path design could achieve this.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby rcmkII » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:24 am

jasonlheath wrote:
mich rolling wrote:Why didn't you ring your bell?



In the post it says the runner didn't hear the bell over traffic, so they did ring their bell.


Older people can't hear bicycle bells anyway - the pitch is too high for their degraded hearing. (Happens to us all with advancing age, unfortunately.) When I see pedestrians with grey hair, I yell 'bike' instead.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby wellington_street » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:42 am

citywomble is correct in that separate paths are needed on this corridor but until they are provided, the only acceptable behaviour is SLOW DOWN and share the path.

scirocco wrote:They are calling it a "minor capital project" but sounds as if it is going to be properly done, not just a lick of paint type job. Closes on the 4th of October.


"Minor capital works" just refers to projects under $2mil (I think) - it has impacts on MRWA procurement procedures.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby jlh » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:59 am

Hopefully they can get rid of those bumps from tree roots on the PSP just north of canning bridge (not sure how they can do this really apart from ongoing maintenance without killing the trees off).

Saw a young lady getting her gravel rashes tended to near there on Sunday after coming down.
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Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:15 pm

There is not a great capacity to allocate a lot of real estate on the south perth/como stretch so separation is not likely to happen.

But even if it was, where do we draw the line? Frankly even some cyclists need to be separated from other cyclists along this stretch, with riders ranigng from ambling in ones or two to haigh speed singles and groups. So what do we push for? Three lanes in and another three out?

I ride it daily during the morning rush and, frankly, it will take a lot more traffic before it gets beyone the ability of the riders to determine the outcome. Until then, ride with respect and urge others to do so as well.
It is badly in need of some work but a total redesign and rebuild should not be on the cards.

And while discussing this stretch, if you have a flat, how about taking the old tube and dumping it in the bin. You can easily wrap and tie it around the top tube. At my speed I get to pick up one every couple of weeks or so.
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