Kwinana PSP

Kwinana PSP

Postby stealthbike » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:11 pm

Following the widening of the Kwinana Freeway and the improvements to the PSP, I have some concerns about what infrastructure we have as a result.
First, I should say that the underpass at Parry Ave is a huge improvement and has made this section much safer. However, Main Roads have inexplicably left the sections that spit riders onto Scandrett Way and London Way in Bateman. Why did they not complete this section to make the path continuous?
Secondly, nothing was done to address the path crossing Cranford Ave, which is pretty busy at times. One solution would have been to continue the PSP from Leach Hwy instead of spitting riders onto Selway Rd.

It seems unlikely that anything will be done for a very long time now, so we will have to accept what we have. The Cranford Ave issue is the one of most concern IMHO. Given that cyclists have to cross here and there are many of them, why not give cylists priority? This could be done with stop signs for vehicles and painting the crossover green. This would be a real step forward in that it sends a message that motorists do not and should not always have priority. :idea: The Kwinana PSP is "our freeway" and I believe that we should have right of way over vehicles at points where we cross roads.

I am not familiar with the PSP along the Mitchell Fwy but I suspect there are similar issues that might be treated the same way.
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by BNA » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:31 pm

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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby wellington_street » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:31 pm

It's in the WABN Plan:

8.2 Cranford Avenue to South Street along Kwinana Freeway

The existing PSP along Kwinana Freeway crosses Cranford Avenue at
grade. This is the only at-grade (where there is a clash between cycling
and other forms of transport) road crossing for the entire Kwinana
Freeway PSP and presents a safety concern. There is a missing section
of PSP between Cranford Avenue and Leach Highway and a further two
missing sections between Parry Avenue and South Street where the route
currently uses quiet local roads.
This improvement project involves construction of a grade seperated PSP
from the north side of Cranford Avenue to the existing PSP connection
on Selway Road and construction of the missing sections of PSP beside
Scandrett Way and London Way.


I recall attending a public presentation about the WABN and it being mentioned that these works were a pretty high priority.

I agree with you that these works should've been done as part of the freeway widening but no point crying over a decision made around 4 years ago.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby Rusty6149 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:07 pm

+1 from me.

Cranford Ave is too busy at peak hour, with crap line of sight from both cycle path entrances. Scandrett Way and London Way both have poor entrances to the path, at angles that make cyclists cut into each others paths, and cyclists don't expect there to be traffic on those roads.. I can tell you from a close shave I had last week, that there is !

The track southbound beyond Parry Avenue underpass is hopefully included in the scheme - it is entertaining on a Mountain Bike, and dangerous on a Road Bike due to the tree roots undermining the path (its the 3rd worst "bumps" between the City and Farrington Road - the second being 1Km North of Mt Henry, and the Grand Prize going to 500m North of Canning Bridge).

So what is stopping this from going ahead.. there appears to be money in the pot.. lets go !

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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby nickobec » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:01 pm

stealthbike wrote:I am not familiar with the PSP along the Mitchell Fwy but I suspect there are similar issues that might be treated the same way.

People north of the river are treated badly. The worst parts of Kwinana Fwy PSP are about as good as the Mitchell Fwy PSP gets, you cross the Fwy a few times, you get lights at major intersections, no tunnels underneath, long stretches on roads and a couple of blind tunnels and intersections.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:21 pm

I was greatly shocked when the sound barriers went up. NOw they are there I expect that nothign will be done to move the cycle path off-road for a great many years.

Neither is too busy, simply because there are bugger all houses there anyway and the section is at the extreme opposite of where traffic comes from or goes to. ut there will still be some . So the issue that concerns me is the lines of sight coupled with amount of gum nuts and other detritus that is on the road. Honky nuts are a difficult thing for cyclists and oof necessity will take riders attention away from the fairly blind corners there.

There could be some sense to ride on the wrong side of the road when heading north due to the sight lines. But then that impedes and confuses riders coming the other way, not to mention drivers.

I still find it inconceivable that they did not move the path off road before putting up the sound barriers.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby Red Rider » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:17 am

+1 Nick and Colin. The PSP upgrades laid out in the WABNP are unsurprisingly taking a very long time to progress. Many grants are not being acted on and planning for future bike/PSP infrastructure does not appear to be happening.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby CycleSnail » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:04 pm

Red Rider wrote:+1 Nick and Colin. The PSP upgrades laid out in the WABNP are unsurprisingly taking a very long time to progress. Many grants are not being acted on and planning for future bike/PSP infrastructure does not appear to be happening.


Actually I think there is a lot of planning happening, and hopefully we will see actual construction in 2014. Unfortunately just about everyting DoT do is covered by confidentiality agreements until it goes to tender. In effect if you have a meeting with/at DoT you cannot even disclose if the airconditioning was on or off .... :(
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby stealthbike » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:00 pm

Actually I think there is a lot of planning happening, and hopefully we will see actual construction in 2014. Unfortunately just about everyting DoT do is covered by confidentiality agreements until it goes to tender. In effect if you have a meeting with/at DoT you cannot even disclose if the airconditioning was on or off .... :(


If this is true, then the works about to commence on widening the Kwinana PSP between Thelma St and the Narrows could be delivered without cyclists actually understanding what is planned. This creates the risk of construction occurring that results in unforeseen safety issues, as actual cyclists are not consulted adequately. In this specific project I am thinking of the occasional single tree that lies between the PSP and the Freeway. I bet they will be left there, which will create very dangerous obstacles on a high volume path which will inevitably result in incidents and injuries. When the upgrade to the path shoulder was done, the contractors didn't even remove a dead tree trunk lying on the ground and simply went around it.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:28 pm

stealthbike wrote:
Actually I think there is a lot of planning happening, and hopefully we will see actual construction in 2014. Unfortunately just about everyting DoT do is covered by confidentiality agreements until it goes to tender. In effect if you have a meeting with/at DoT you cannot even disclose if the airconditioning was on or off .... :(


If this is true, then the works about to commence on widening the Kwinana PSP between Thelma St and the Narrows could be delivered without cyclists actually understanding what is planned. This creates the risk of construction occurring that results in unforeseen safety issues, as actual cyclists are not consulted adequately. In this specific project I am thinking of the occasional single tree that lies between the PSP and the Freeway. I bet they will be left there, which will create very dangerous obstacles on a high volume path which will inevitably result in incidents and injuries. When the upgrade to the path shoulder was done, the contractors didn't even remove a dead tree trunk lying on the ground and simply went around it.

going back a couple of decades ago the Como-Sth Perth stretch had short sharp right angled boxy bits deviating around the length-extended pedestrian overpasses (extra lanes had been added tothe freeway). There were very few commuters in those days but I recall that inevitably a rider hit his/her head onto a box tree at one of the angled cornes when squeezed by a rider coming the other leaning into the corner as you would expect. I can't recall that the rider died but the incident was certainly serious.

And totally predictable. Many riders went down on the white sand that was always being deposited.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby Red Rider » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:50 pm

CycleSnail wrote:
Red Rider wrote:+1 Nick and Colin. The PSP upgrades laid out in the WABNP are unsurprisingly taking a very long time to progress. Many grants are not being acted on and planning for future bike/PSP infrastructure does not appear to be happening.


Actually I think there is a lot of planning happening, and hopefully we will see actual construction in 2014. Unfortunately just about everyting DoT do is covered by confidentiality agreements until it goes to tender. In effect if you have a meeting with/at DoT you cannot even disclose if the airconditioning was on or off .... :(

I'm sure you're right in that planning is being done for projects. Clarifying my point, there needs to be higher level planning to allow for the network without having to radically alter current and pending infrastructure, or result in a network with more shortcomings.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby uMP2k » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:00 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:...going back a couple of decades ago the Como-Sth Perth stretch had short sharp right angled boxy bits deviating around the length-extended pedestrian overpasses (extra lanes had been added tothe freeway). There were very few commuters in those days but I recall that inevitably a rider hit his/her head onto a box tree at one of the angled cornes when squeezed by a rider coming the other leaning into the corner as you would expect. I can't recall that the rider died but the incident was certainly serious.

And totally predictable. Many riders went down on the white sand that was always being deposited.



God - how can it be that I have been riding that section long enough to remember that!

You are right Colin they were particularly nasty, although I cannot remember the accident you refer to, I can certainly remember more than one close call of my own. Of course, what was then youthful exuberance fuelled speed may have been a contributing factor as well!
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby stealthbike » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:51 pm

It's in the WABN Plan:



8.2 Cranford Avenue to South Street along Kwinana Freeway

The existing PSP along Kwinana Freeway crosses Cranford Avenue at
grade. This is the only at-grade (where there is a clash between cycling
and other forms of transport) road crossing for the entire Kwinana
Freeway PSP and presents a safety concern. There is a missing section
of PSP between Cranford Avenue and Leach Highway and a further two
missing sections between Parry Avenue and South Street where the route
currently uses quiet local roads.
This improvement project involves construction of a grade seperated PSP
from the north side of Cranford Avenue to the existing PSP connection
on Selway Road and construction of the missing sections of PSP beside
Scandrett Way and London Way.


I recall attending a public presentation about the WABN and it being mentioned that these works were a pretty high priority.

I agree with you that these works should've been done as part of the freeway widening but no point crying over a decision made around 4 years ago.


As a taxpayer, it is frustrating to me that some of the works recently completed associated with the Freeway widening will need to be 'undone' when the Scandrett and London sections are completed. The noisewalls will need moving. What a waste of money. Some coordinated planning would have seen these projects combined and saved taxpayers' money.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby dampier » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:56 pm

Just out of curiosity, how old is the PSP? and the other parts of the network. I only resumed riding as an adult 7 years ago and have never thought about their age. Just been grateful that they were there.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:17 pm

I know it was there 21yrs ago. Remember riding around bibra lake after school 3x and thought to myself if I can do that, I can ride to Perth and did. Got on at Farrington Rd back then as the PSP didn't go any further.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby wellington_street » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:05 pm

^ The current PSP from Farrington southward to Thomas Road was built when the freeway was widened and had the traffic lights removed in about 2001/2002. Prior to that there was a bitumen path alongside the freeway with signalised crossings at the intersections. North of Farrington was probably built when the freeway was (1982) which explains why it is such a low standard.

stealthbike wrote:Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing?


Absolutely not, this is Government :lol:

And to be honest I agree with you - in my line of work I see quite ridiculous Government wastage (time and money) due to the left hand not knowing what the right is doing or just general incompetence which means stuff has to be fixed later.

I'll have to take your word for the noise walls as I haven't been through there since they were put up. I did go through there during construction and thought there was enough room.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:24 pm

wellington_street wrote:^ The current PSP from Farrington southward to Thomas Road was built when the freeway was widened and had the traffic lights removed in about 2001/2002. Prior to that there was a bitumen path alongside the freeway with signalised crossings at the intersections. North of Farrington was probably built when the freeway was (1982) which explains why it is such a low standard.

stealthbike wrote:Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing?


Absolutely not, this is Government :lol:

And to be honest I agree with you - in my line of work I see quite ridiculous Government wastage (time and money) due to the left hand not knowing what the right is doing or just general incompetence which means stuff has to be fixed later.

I'll have to take your word for the noise walls as I haven't been through there since they were put up. I did go through there during construction and thought there was enough room.

There was room, albeit with a couple of light trees taken down. (Nothing special, the sort of trees that have been removed elsewhere for the PSP.)
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