Paid parking at train stations

Paid parking at train stations

Postby worzel » Fri May 09, 2014 11:11 am

I see Transperth are planning to implement paid parking at all railway stations from 1st July – At $2 a day that is quite a slug and dwarfs this week’s train fare increases.

My first observation is that as a way to manage over-crowding on trains it is perverse – rather than adding capacity they will push people back into their cars.

Personally I am more concerned about the delay factor of obtaining daily parking tickets. We already have to queue for 5 minutes to get off the platform in Perth as there are nowhere near enough (functioning) escalators and for 2 minutes every night to tag off as there are not enough machines. Now we are going to queue for parking ticket machines too? Maybe there will be a monthly season ticket option, but as I try and ride in twice per week that will be a costly option.

Specific to cycling, I imagine a lot of people will consider cycling to the station rather than driving but I don’t suppose there will be a massive increase in cycle parking facilities planned to address this.
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by BNA » Fri May 09, 2014 11:31 am

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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby dmwill » Fri May 09, 2014 11:31 am

worzel wrote:Personally I am more concerned about the delay factor of obtaining daily parking tickets.


Good point! Especially the carparks that do not have overly long entries where queues will run out into the streets (or Freeway onramps in the case of Greenwood and Whitfords stations).
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Speedster » Fri May 09, 2014 11:58 am

dmwill wrote:Good point! Especially the carparks that do not have overly long entries where queues will run out into the streets (or Freeway onramps in the case of Greenwood and Whitfords stations).

The queues will be at the ticket machines. Entry to the car park isn't boom gate restricted. You park, go to the machine, put in your money or tag your smartrider, put ticket on dashboard.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby cray- » Fri May 09, 2014 12:09 pm

Cockburn Eastside has maintained a surprising amount of bikes in the chookshed considering the weather has turned. It might not last, but certainly in the warmer months they will need to expand as I think many will choose a short ride rather than paying $2/day.

There is also a decent amount of verge parking outside of the Transperth carpark proper, I'm guessing these will fill up early. Don't get me started on the queue to leave the carpark...
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby dmwill » Fri May 09, 2014 12:48 pm

Speedster wrote:The queues will be at the ticket machines. Entry to the car park isn't boom gate restricted. You park, go to the machine, put in your money or tag your smartrider, put ticket on dashboard.


Ah yeah, didn't think of that.

cray- wrote:There is also a decent amount of verge parking outside of the Transperth carpark proper, I'm guessing these will fill up early. Don't get me started on the queue to leave the carpark...


Most streets surrounding train stations throughout the City of Joondalup area have restrictions, either no parking, or a limit of a 2 - 4 hours. They seem to really enforce it, my brother has copped a fine or two for parking on a quiet local street in Greenwood a few hundred meters from the station. I'm guessing most local councils have similar restrictions near train stations?
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby justalf » Fri May 09, 2014 3:19 pm

Damn those Transperth people for creating a service that people actually want to use!
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby cray- » Fri May 09, 2014 3:35 pm

dmwill wrote:Most streets surrounding train stations throughout the City of Joondalup area have restrictions, either no parking, or a limit of a 2 - 4 hours. They seem to really enforce it, my brother has copped a fine or two for parking on a quiet local street in Greenwood a few hundred meters from the station. I'm guessing most local councils have similar restrictions near train stations?

Around Cockburn Stn on the east side is an industrial estate and lots of unused land. Certain sections of verge are sign posted no parking to make sure access is clear for other businesses but the rest is fair game for now.

justalf wrote:Damn those Transperth people for creating a service that people actually want to use!

Only going to get worse, more and more new estates going in South of Cockburn. They need to get that new station in quick smart. All the latecomers already park illegally. Though I like the little section which as been carved out by 4x4's in the scrub, plenty of empty land if they want to add another couple hundred bays.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby citywomble » Fri May 09, 2014 10:47 pm

Certain sections of verge are sign posted no parking to make sure access is clear for other businesses but the rest is fair game for now.


Interesting, just be careful your not caught out once paid parking comes in.

Under the Road Traffic Code 2000 it is an offence to park on any verge, at any time - unless permitted under a local law.

The only permissions granted under local laws for verge parking is by or with the permission of the adjacent landowner (who 'maintains' that verge).

So, if you do not own, or have the permission of the owner of, the adjacent land, you are potentially open to infringement, even without signage (as knowledge of the RTC 2000 is a condition of a licence to drive).
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby rolandp » Fri May 09, 2014 11:04 pm

This was announced back in August 2013.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-09/f ... ed/4875376

Plenty of time for those using these facilities to adjust their habits.

Also 60percent of cars parked at suburban railway stations have driven less than 3kms, based on article back in 2010, so not that far to ride:
http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/Portals/0/docs ... future.pdf
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri May 09, 2014 11:22 pm

Conceptually I'm actually in favour of it. Though I am sure that the governments actions are for totally different reasons than I support. (How do you say "gouge gouge gouge"?)

The expenditure on trains should be addressing the issue of cars being used and all the social costs that that involves. Not just pushing the problems of a freeway no longer capable of being expanded and lack of CBD parking space further away from the CBD.

As far as it driving more people back to cars that's easy - reduce the car parking options at the same time. However government of either politcal persuasion are seldom that brave.

I have no faith however that the current government is increasing parking costs to give us a more sustainable transport system. They are, after all, the government that cancelled orders for trains placed by a previous government, only re-instating those orders after sustained public anger. We are still waiting for those carriages to go into service and losing prior converts to public transport in the process.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Red Rider » Sat May 10, 2014 10:08 am

Are they going to use the money to promote the solution to the problem? It would be appropriate if they then used that money to build adequate cycling infrastructure to get from the surrounding suburbs to the train stations, and then bike parking.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat May 10, 2014 2:06 pm

Red Rider wrote:Are they going to use the money to promote the solution to the problem? It would be appropriate if they then used that money to build adequate cycling infrastructure to get from the surrounding suburbs to the train stations, and then bike parking.

Keen cyclists say that. But we fail to acknowledge an elephant in the room. That in most places cycling is not an all year around thing. Hell, I live in Perth and even here it would be a big ask to substitute the all-weather family car for a few bikes, even if some of us are willing.

It is a big ask of a public bought up on the use of a covered and protected car. But imagine if sa ubstantial portion of the transport budget went to long covered routes around the suburbs. The sorts of outside pedestrian routes at some airports with cover over top and, sometime, protection on one side from the prevailing winds. We take rain out of the equation and suddenly riding to and from local shops, the train stations and so forth becomes an all year around thing.

Your model of public transport being supported with bikes as the way to get to the stations and hubs is clearly one of the most efficient options in many ways. We just need ubiquitous bike (and ped) infrastructure. And, compared to the costs we are not used to for road, it would seem free.
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Sat May 10, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Grev » Sat May 10, 2014 5:17 pm

I think “visually impaired Freddy” can see that $2.00 per day is only the start. Once the signs and ticketing machines are in place it will just be easy to inflict a new price at regular intervals.

In the short term, motorists will be parking in the streets around the train and bus stations.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Mububban » Sun May 11, 2014 10:47 pm

rolandp wrote:Also 60percent of cars parked at suburban railway stations have driven less than 3kms, based on article back in 2010, so not that far to ride:
http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/Portals/0/docs ... future.pdf


Seriously??? 3km or less??? That's terrible. But I'm fully expecting with typical government short-sightedness, they will make no extra provision for bicycle parking.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby WarbyD » Mon May 12, 2014 9:26 am

Mububban wrote:
rolandp wrote:Also 60percent of cars parked at suburban railway stations have driven less than 3kms, based on article back in 2010, so not that far to ride:
http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/Portals/0/docs ... future.pdf


Seriously??? 3km or less??? That's terrible. But I'm fully expecting with typical government short-sightedness, they will make no extra provision for bicycle parking.


Doesn't surprise me at all.. On the days that I (reluctantly) catch public transport there are a number of people who board the bus at a point where it would honestly be faster to walk to the train station (due to the route the bus takes from this point to the station), yet they choose the slower option simply because it means sitting in a bus for 10-15 minutes rather than walking 5-10.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby 88mph » Mon May 12, 2014 11:22 am

This is a good initiative IMO, will encourage more to cycle for sure.

On the days I dont cycle to work or the station I ride moy scooter - the $2 will also apply to my scooter which I think is a ilttle rich considering how much room it takes up. Might just drive my Landcruiser next time to get my $2 worth :wink:
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby cray- » Mon May 12, 2014 12:07 pm

citywomble wrote:
Certain sections of verge are sign posted no parking to make sure access is clear for other businesses but the rest is fair game for now.

Interesting, just be careful your not caught out once paid parking comes in.
Under the Road Traffic Code 2000 it is an offence to park on any verge, at any time - unless permitted under a local law.
The only permissions granted under local laws for verge parking is by or with the permission of the adjacent landowner (who 'maintains' that verge).
So, if you do not own, or have the permission of the owner of, the adjacent land, you are potentially open to infringement, even without signage (as knowledge of the RTC 2000 is a condition of a licence to drive).

Interesting, I won't try to counter the legalities, all I can speak from is experience: lots of "No Parking On Verge" signs with arrows, you park on the wrong side of the pole/arrow, you get a ticket from the council, you park on the right side of the pole/arrow and they leave you alone. Around 60% of said verge is vacant land, the rest is light industrial. Outdated Google StreetView example: https://goo.gl/maps/WwoDZ
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I guess we'll see if the signs or the councils actions change once the payed parking comes in.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby WarbyD » Mon May 12, 2014 12:39 pm

Yup - same experience at Cockburn.. They almost religiously ticket anyone caught on the wrong side of that sign, while on the other side of it you're golden. That being said though, this may be a case of practicality winning out - If they enforced strict "No parking on verge" law as referenced above down that street - where would people park? All of the parking down there is FULL by about 0800.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby wellington_street » Mon May 12, 2014 12:42 pm

It's also an effort thing - it's much harder for Council rangers to issue a ticket to someone parked on a verge without the 'owner' of that verge making a complaint, as Council rangers cannot easily determine whether the parked vehicle has permission or not.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby CycleSnail » Mon May 12, 2014 1:56 pm

From memory about half the cars parked at the Claremont train station have are registered to owners within 1km of the station :roll: ! (The 60% driving less than 3km is an average of all the train stations)

I think paid all-day parking at the station is a good move. People living closer might choose to walk or cycle, making space for people living further away with poor bus connections to the station.

The PTA seems to monitor occupancy of the bike cages and parking on a regular basis, and I think will respond to owercrowding.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby cray- » Mon May 12, 2014 2:30 pm

CycleSnail wrote:I think paid all-day parking at the station is a good move. People living closer might choose to walk or cycle, making space for people living further away with poor bus connections to the station.


That's a pretty big MIGHT, I'm not so optimistic. Cockburn East recently got an extra 400 bays and they filled up from day 1, with the amount of people parking on the verge unchanged. How many bikes fit in a chookshed, 20? I'd love to see them forced to build space for 100+ bikes because people don't want to pay $10/wk but I don't think it's going to happen.

I live exactly 3km away by car/bike (1.4km as the crow flies/as the fatbike travels, n+1?) but as soon as there's even the slightest chance of rain I'll hop in my tin can. At the moment I rarely ride but that will change, especially if I can't get a free spot on the verge.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Scott_C » Mon May 12, 2014 3:08 pm

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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby mikedufty » Mon May 12, 2014 4:20 pm

Seems like a sound idea for weekdays, not sure why they need to charge $2 a day on Sundays though.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Thoglette » Wed May 14, 2014 2:00 pm

CycleSnail wrote:From memory about half the cars parked at the Claremont train station have are registered to owners within 1km of the station :roll: ! (The 60% driving less than 3km is an average of all the train stations)


While I'm expecting it to force me out of the house 5 minutes earlier to not miss the-train-I-have-to-catch on the days I have to catch it, it might reduce the looong walk from the other end of the Claremont car park (and I drive 10km to park there - dropping kiddies off on the way)

Unless, of course, the ticket machines are only at the train station end of the car park In which case it'll be ten minutes.
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby worzel » Wed May 14, 2014 4:47 pm

As I rode past Greenwood station yesterday I noticed a woman drive up to a parking meter in a distant, empty part of the car park, hop out (with the engine running) to buy a ticket and then drive to a closer parking spot. If that sort of thing happens at Currambine where the car park is almost full at 7am and there is a car entering the car park every 10 seconds there will be gridlock / injuries / carjackings. I do hope there is a season ticket option.
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