CBD Bike Blitz

NASHIE
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Fri May 01, 2015 1:21 pm

grimbo wrote:I've yet to hear a car driver say that because some other driver was seen behaving dangerously, it brings themselves and all car drivers into disrepute.
Don't forget were talking Perth CBD. I don't observe 50% plus car drivers 'behaving dangerously' but do see many many bike riders ...Perth CBD...'behaving dangerously' and ignoring basic road rules in front of all other road users. Its does set a bad example and does not make other road users feel warm and cuddly towards bike riders

Talks_to_Swans
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Talks_to_Swans » Fri May 01, 2015 2:05 pm

NASHIE wrote:
grimbo wrote:I've yet to hear a car driver say that because some other driver was seen behaving dangerously, it brings themselves and all car drivers into disrepute.
Don't forget were talking Perth CBD. I don't observe 50% plus car drivers 'behaving dangerously' but do see many many bike riders ...Perth CBD...'behaving dangerously' and ignoring basic road rules in front of all other road users. Its does set a bad example and does not make other road users feel warm and cuddly towards bike riders
I reckon 50% of the drivers going round the Elizabeth Quay site go through the amber phase when presented with one. Drivers are less likely to disobey the rules because the road layout in the city is designed to speed their progress, whereas for cyclists no thought has been given to road layout or light phasing for their benefit.

NASHIE
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Fri May 01, 2015 2:25 pm

Got nothing more to add, other than i hope that the guys doing the wrong thing get tickets and change their ways. 1HR ago, Wellington St....roadie, filtered through the traffic....pulled in front of me at the red light .....rode off through the flashing pedestrian (red light) and processed to own the lane at 30kph, and some of you wonder why you get verbal abuse :roll:

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby eldavo » Fri May 01, 2015 2:37 pm

The funny thing is, if he hopped off his bike and walked across, thumbs up :)
He's in a system not designed for him and making safe progress (he is not a large object of rapid speed change and tonnes of mass) and taking penalty units risk to do so.
I don't expect any penalty units will change the negligible reality to motivate any behavioural change.

On a Friday note, this weekend there will be several hundred domestic violence calls to the Police in every metro region. Maybe they'll get him for DV =P

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby jlh » Fri May 01, 2015 2:52 pm

NASHIE wrote:Got nothing more to add, other than i hope that the guys doing the wrong thing get tickets and change their ways. 1HR ago, Wellington St....roadie, filtered through the traffic....pulled in front of me at the red light .....rode off through the flashing pedestrian (red light) and processed to own the lane at 30kph, and some of you wonder why you get verbal abuse :roll:

I agree, why add fuel to the car v cyclist argument fire by disobeying the road rules. If you want to be treated with respect then act with respect.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Fri May 01, 2015 3:19 pm

Sorry for getting of thread...but whats not 'designed for him' or 'disrespectful towards him'......he has chosen to ride on the road and therefor expects the courtesy of other road users. So why not show the courtesy back buy, 1 holding your place in a que, 2 stopping and waiting at the red light like the other road users and 3 keep to the left :?: .BTW if he had got off his and walked across, he would of been J walking. Its got nothing to do with its safer on a bike to run a red etc etc. Im sure we could all safely run reds many times a day in the car, but we don't.

Taking to myself again....eldavo there's nothing wrong with having opinion mate. leave your posts up
Last edited by NASHIE on Fri May 01, 2015 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jaseyjase
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby jaseyjase » Fri May 01, 2015 3:55 pm

At the end of the day a cyclist breaking the law does not put a motorists life in danger, the same cannot be said the other way around.

In my view this isnt as black and white as you may like to think it is.

I follow the road rules 99% of the time, but if doing so puts myself in what i feel will be a risky situation, my common sense will prevail.

Im not advocating blindly blowing through red lights, but if i can get the jump and create some space, traffic dosnt have to 'wait' and the space means they can change lanes more easily rather then feeling 'blocked'. This is more for narrow lanes ie charles st.

If traffic is backed up at the lights by more than 10 cars, you can be damn sure im not gonna sit there in queue, id rather lane split to the lights and clear that traffic jam instead of being sandwiched between 1tonne piles of metal who are already annoyed at being stuck in traffic.

Ill keep left, but im not riding in the gutter, and i dont ride in the middle obviously!

So as TG said it, ill ride to survive.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby wellington_street » Fri May 01, 2015 4:07 pm

I think there's a very different approach to take in the CBD and inner areas, where there is a much higher density of cyclists, traffic and traffic lights, than in the suburbs.

I often ponder going on the ped green when I'm at the front of the queue - it's the whole 'obeying the road rules' vs getting up to speed quicker so that I'm less of an obstruction to the lead-foots. At least with the former I am presenting myself to other road users as someone respectful of road rules and hopefully getting that respect back.

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grimbo
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby grimbo » Fri May 01, 2015 4:12 pm

NASHIE wrote:
grimbo wrote:I've yet to hear a car driver say that because some other driver was seen behaving dangerously, it brings themselves and all car drivers into disrepute.
Don't forget were talking Perth CBD. I don't observe 50% plus car drivers 'behaving dangerously' but do see many many bike riders ...Perth CBD...'behaving dangerously' and ignoring basic road rules in front of all other road users. Its does set a bad example and does not make other road users feel warm and cuddly towards bike riders
I don't disagree, it's not a good look when multiple cyclists disobey the road rules like they don't apply to them, however ...

Every day I see cars blow through orange-turning-red lights or just-turned-red lights. It seems to have gotten to the point of "normal accepted behavior in a car". The consequences could be deadly. I wish I saw our fellow motorists wringing their hands over their fellow drivers putting others at risk. That's why it always slightly erks me when we wring our hands over fellow cyclists putting themselves at risk, while worrying about how it "appears".
"If I can bicycle, I bicycle" ~David Attenborough

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Thoglette
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Thoglette » Fri May 01, 2015 4:14 pm

jaseyjase wrote:I follow the road rules 99% of the time, but if doing so puts myself in what i feel will be a risky situation
So you are saying that waiting five more seconds for the lights to go green is "risky"?
jaseyjase wrote:If traffic is backed up at the lights by more than 10 cars, you can be damn sure im not gonna sit there in queue...
And how is this relevant to issue at hand? That's perfectly legit.
Talks_to_Swans wrote:I live in the city and I'm under instructions from the wife to cycle on the pavement in the city
So you've made arrangements for the personal injury claim from the pedestrian you will eventually hit?
As, odds-on your insurer is not going to pay out. :(
grimbo wrote: Every day I see cars blow through orange-turning-red lights or just-turned-red lights. It seems to have gotten to the point of "normal accepted behavior in a car". The consequences could be deadly. I wish I saw our fellow motorists wringing their hands over their fellow drivers putting others at risk.
Well write your your MP and to the paper and your favourite shock jock.

We can't use other's bad behaviour to excuse ours. It's a logical fallacy & won't help our cause at all.
Last edited by Thoglette on Fri May 01, 2015 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jaseyjase
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby jaseyjase » Fri May 01, 2015 4:29 pm

hehe knew youd chime in sooner or later :wink:
Thoglette wrote:So you are saying that waiting five more seconds for the lights to go green is "risky"?
I wasnt referring specifically to the wellington/miligan intersection, ive admitted theres no real benefit in jumping the lights there, or anywhere else within the cbd to be honest because of the proximity of lights and general speed of traffic.

But one area where i will almost always jump the red is the Dog Swamp intersection of Flinders/Wanneroo Rd/Charles St, the entry to charles is narrow, and ive been shaved too many times that i care to be remember. In this instance i will jump the red coming from flinders, to ensure i get the green at the entry into charles st. The uphill and traffic lights make it a slower start then normal and thus a situation id rather not put myself in.

Thoglette wrote:And how is this relevant to issue at hand? You've confused me.
I was simply replying to Nashie's comment about keeping your place in the queue, my reply was directly below Nashies.

I think in general the issue at hand is following road rules for the sake of it. While i understand its to give cyclist the better image in hopes of getting the respect we need on the roads, i will continue to ride to survive.

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Thoglette
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Thoglette » Fri May 01, 2015 4:53 pm

jaseyjase wrote:But one area where i will almost always jump the red is the Dog Swamp intersection of Flinders/Wanneroo Rd/Charles St,
Yup, that's one ugly, ugly intersection.

Other points taken.
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CycleSnail
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby CycleSnail » Fri May 01, 2015 5:27 pm

Looking at the clip at the top of this thread, what I saw was
- a cyclist slowly crossing with pedestrians
- a cyclist not wearing a helmet
- a cyclist leaning with his hand on a stationary bus
- a cyclist riding down a footpath (what appeared to be reasonable speed)

4 police persons taking 4 hours to fine 19 people on bicycles. Or one fine per police person per hour.

That to me seems to indicate that the vast majority of bike riders obeyed the law at that location. And the ones that broke the law did not seem to endanger anybody, actually a couple appeared confused as to why they were picked up.

Imagine running a blitz on car drivers or pedestrians for the same duration...

Overall an benign picture of cycling in Perth, with some people getting a bit of education and/or a fine.
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Fri May 01, 2015 8:24 pm

Night time booze buses must cost a fortune, to catch a handful of drivers. Different league i know but you can't put money/resource into these debates. Any police presence on the street is good for everyone IMO. The police presence on this blitz may have deterred an oxygen thief snatching someones handbag on that day. You guys are free to pick and choose what rules you want to follow or ignore but don't complain when you get lip from passing motorists. You don't know what state of mind anyone on the road is in these days, and i chose to minimise any angst that may tip them over the edge. To filter through traffic/run red lights means drivers may have to pass you 2,3,4 times ......Guys some drivers struggle to pass once. Learn how to ride the road safely and you should feel safe and without any lip service.

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wizzfizz
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby wizzfizz » Sat May 02, 2015 7:45 am

Looking at the positives, this might shut up some of the "get off the road, there's a path right there" crowd! :)

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Aushiker » Sat May 02, 2015 12:06 pm

jlh wrote:I agree, why add fuel to the car v cyclist argument fire by disobeying the road rules. If you want to be treated with respect then act with respect.
So can you please explain then how you know I ride within the law and appropriately and hence should be "treated with respect" or for that matter don't? How do you know about the next guy? How are the 100s of motorists who drive pass me as I commute to and from work meant to know?

What was I dong wrong here that didn't warrant respect? Is it because some other random rider did something "wrong" in her eyes and hence I hadn't earned this motor vehicle operators respect because I am on a bike?



How do I know when I am driving the bicycle rider is a good one warranting respect or not?

To be honest I don't give a damn about your or others "respect or otherwise", I don't know you or them and none of you have a clue about me. Just as if I come across you on the road I wouldn't have a clue about your riding or driving other than for those fleeting few moments so you know what I do? I actually value human life including yours, I value life irrespective of the transport mode; I do my best to ride and I drive with consideration of others irrespective of their transport mode. I prefer to contribute to getting those I come across getting home to their families and friends safely.

Not that hard really and guess what? No respect involved in my approach.

Andrew

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Aushiker
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Aushiker » Sat May 02, 2015 12:20 pm

WestCycle is seeking feedback on this matter via their Facebook page. Good to see them starting to interact with the wider community on matters of interest.

Andrew

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Sat May 02, 2015 2:27 pm

Aushiker wrote:
What was I dong wrong here that didn't warrant respect? Is it because some other random rider did something "wrong" in her eyes and hence I hadn't earned this motor vehicle operators respect because I am on a bike?
That happens on the road everyday, car, bike ,bus pulling in front of other motorist. I don't think she had it in for you .....just didn't see you for one of many reasons. For all we know you might of been signalling to turn left and then changed your mind ?. There are countless t-bone, rear-end etc crashes daily MV vs MV
How do I know when I am driving the bicycle rider is a good one warranting respect or not?


The one riding though the red light is the bad one ?
Not that hard really and guess what? No respect involved in my approach.
If you ride to the road rules then you show courtesy and respect to other road users everyday

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CycleSnail
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby CycleSnail » Sun May 03, 2015 11:39 am

Riding on footpaths will eventually be legalised, but in the meantime we have a "blitz on bike riders" where they get fined for doing something that is already acknowledged as being ok to do soon?
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NASHIE
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Sun May 03, 2015 1:48 pm

Do you think this new law will apply to CBD footpaths ?

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CycleSnail
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby CycleSnail » Sun May 03, 2015 4:39 pm

NASHIE wrote:Do you think this new law will apply to CBD footpaths ?
Yep, this is my current guess.
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby rolandp » Sun May 03, 2015 9:04 pm

CycleSnail wrote:
NASHIE wrote:Do you think this new law will apply to CBD footpaths ?
Yep, this is my current guess.
Let's look at history and cycling in the CBD. Claisebrook Bridge was originally shared path. Following complaints from local residents, City of Perth put up a 'dismount sign'.

Mount St overpass, again cycling was not allowed and only allowed around 12 months ago.

Cycling through Hay and Murray St malls is part of the City of Perth Bike Plan - but is late in being implemented.

All it takes is a 'no cycling sign', and there goes the cycling on footpaths in the CBD.

On the other hand, converting a footpath to a shared path also only takes installing a 'shared path sign' - if the CoP had supported this concept, signs would have been installed years ago.

Time will tell.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby roller » Mon May 04, 2015 7:38 am

CycleSnail wrote:Riding on footpaths will eventually be legalised, but in the meantime we have a "blitz on bike riders" where they get fined for doing something that is already acknowledged as being ok to do soon?
It's like a going out of business sale
inflammatory statement or idea

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Thoglette
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Thoglette » Mon May 04, 2015 9:02 am

roller wrote:It's like a going out of business sale
Signe Wilkinson says
Image (full size here)
Last edited by Thoglette on Mon May 04, 2015 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby roller » Mon May 04, 2015 10:18 am

love it !
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