Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Scott_C
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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:50 am

wellington_street wrote:Scott_C, did you ever get any answers from Main Roads?

Despite the overall works being managed by Main Roads this bit of work is apparently being done on behalf of Town of Vic Park so they decided the Main Roads standards don't apply and ToVP approved the non-existent detour because it was cheap and it was a quiet section of path (until they detoured the Riverside RSP along it).

ToVP also viewed previous Burswood Cyclocross detours as being successful so they felt the across grass solution was already a proven success.

The other justification provided was that, when the RSP closure went in, the Contractor's Schedule had them returning the path on Feb 27. I pointed out that progress on site was well behind that required to meet that date but they were simply going off what they were told. As luck would have it I happened across the monthly schedule updates for the job and it was clear to me that whoever is maintaining the schedule wasn't updating it with actual completion times so it had no predictive ability whatsoever.

I got an update last week saying that the asphalt has been laid and they were now expecting to do the concrete edging on this coming Tuesday so hopefully the path will be able to be re-opened late next week. Regardless, there is no intent to do anything other than wait for the new path to be complete.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby wellington_street » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:52 am

Thanks Scott. I assume the path due on the 27th is the one at the GEH/Craig Street intersection?

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:31 pm

wellington_street wrote:Thanks Scott. I assume the path due on the 27th is the one at the GEH/Craig Street intersection?

Yes, when they put in the underpass closure the shared path at GEH/Craig St was scheduled on paper to be re-opened on the 27th of February.

The ToVP used the scheduled short duration of the across grass detour as part of their justification to not provide a proper detour despite that, in my opinion, any competent project manager looking at the schedule could see that the works were slipping and any competent engineer undertaking a site visit could see that the works would not be completed in the 2 weeks scheduled.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:23 pm

The grass section of the detour has been replaced with the re-opening of the path through the roadworks at GEH/Craig St. Unfortunately you still can't cross GEH at Craig St so the detour is just as long and circuitous as before with the added bonus that there are no directional signs through Craig St so anyone who hasn't ridden the detour previously has no way of knowing where to go.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby roller » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:43 pm

Found someone stranded today heading north with no idea how to get across at the new traffic lights, gave them an escort across and through the lights at burswood casino.

Without this thread I'd probably be in the same boat, such a debacle.
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Slow Motion
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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Slow Motion » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:05 am

morning team, do we have any more updates on when this will re-open?

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:48 am

Slow Motion wrote:morning team, do we have any more updates on when this will re-open?

The updated Town of Victoria Park website says:
Construction works commenced 13 February 2017 ... Construction works are expected to be completed in approximately eight weeks.


By my count 8 weeks from the 13th of Feb was the 10th of April so they are already behind schedule. The website does indicate that they unexpectedly encountered jarrah timber piers under the cycle path so there is some justification for delays.

The ToVP engineer/PM is listed on their website with generic contact details if someone wants to go chasing an updated completion date. I have personally chosen not to do so as this closure doesn't personally impact me and I want to keep a constructive relationship with the ToVP staff for discussions about the Rutland Ave works which do directly impact me.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby tomness » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:08 pm

Scott_C wrote:The ToVP engineer/PM is listed on their website with generic contact details if someone wants to go chasing an updated completion date. I have personally chosen not to do so as this closure doesn't personally impact me and I want to keep a constructive relationship with the ToVP staff for discussions about the Rutland Ave works which do directly impact me.


So have you got a date for the completion of the Rutland Ave works, which seem to be taking forever?

Both the Causeway and the Rutland Ave works affect my usual commute route. I have been avoiding that entire area by cutting across to Shepperton road, but I will be quite happy to get back to my old route.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby dmwill » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:16 pm

I think there is a fair bit of BS when there are delays in these kinds of things.

A certain freeway overpass was postponed due to bad weather in recent months. The actual reason was the beams were too short.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:56 pm

tomness wrote:
Scott_C wrote:The ToVP engineer/PM is listed on their website with generic contact details if someone wants to go chasing an updated completion date. I have personally chosen not to do so as this closure doesn't personally impact me and I want to keep a constructive relationship with the ToVP staff for discussions about the Rutland Ave works which do directly impact me.

So have you got a date for the completion of the Rutland Ave works, which seem to be taking forever?


I was actually referring to the ToVP construction of bicycle lanes/PSP/Bike Boulevard on Rutland Ave, not the Water Corp piping works.

ToVP received a $90k grant from DoT for construction of a "Rutland Avenue Segregated Bike Lane" in the 2017/18 financial year and I need to get them to cough up a design because, from what was previously published on their website, they are planning on bi-directional cycle lanes on the western side of Rutland Ave between Welshpool Rd and Oat St and I don't think it is workable design as there isn't a practicable way to get into the lanes when you are travelling southbound at Oat St. They are also very unclear as to whether this will be a PSP, bicycle lanes or a cycle path with bicycle lanes being the worst option because of the legal compulsion to use them.

As it happens the dude over my right shoulder was discussing the Water Corp works earlier this morning and he mentioned Water Corp had an oversized compactor out there earlier this week closing up the trench and making the ground good for re-laying the asphalt. The Water Corp website indicates that, "We anticipate the majority of construction and re-instatements along Rutland Ave to be completed by the end of April" and it seems they are pretty much on target to achieve that.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Slow Motion » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:00 pm

tomness wrote:
Scott_C wrote:The ToVP engineer/PM is listed on their website with generic contact details if someone wants to go chasing an updated completion date. I have personally chosen not to do so as this closure doesn't personally impact me and I want to keep a constructive relationship with the ToVP staff for discussions about the Rutland Ave works which do directly impact me.


So have you got a date for the completion of the Rutland Ave works, which seem to be taking forever?

Both the Causeway and the Rutland Ave works affect my usual commute route. I have been avoiding that entire area by cutting across to Shepperton road, but I will be quite happy to get back to my old route.


I'm in the same boat, my commute is from Henderson to Bassendean and I usually stay on the south side of the river to avoid Lizzy quay and the typical pedestrian bottle neck. Heading along Riverside drive into East Perth blows chunks.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby XIX » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:17 pm

You could try going up Barrack and then onto the PSP from there. Probably quicker as well, though it is a little hairy for the Barrack st section.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby tomness » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Scott_C wrote:
I was actually referring to the ToVP construction of bicycle lanes/PSP/Bike Boulevard on Rutland Ave, not the Water Corp piping works.

ToVP received a $90k grant from DoT for construction of a "Rutland Avenue Segregated Bike Lane" in the 2017/18 financial year and I need to get them to cough up a design because, from what was previously published on their website, they are planning on bi-directional cycle lanes on the western side of Rutland Ave between Welshpool Rd and Oat St and I don't think it is workable design as there isn't a practicable way to get into the lanes when you are travelling southbound at Oat St. They are also very unclear as to whether this will be a PSP, bicycle lanes or a cycle path with bicycle lanes being the worst option because of the legal compulsion to use them.

As it happens the dude over my right shoulder was discussing the Water Corp works earlier this morning and he mentioned Water Corp had an oversized compactor out there earlier this week closing up the trench and making the ground good for re-laying the asphalt. The Water Corp website indicates that, "We anticipate the majority of construction and re-instatements along Rutland Ave to be completed by the end of April" and it seems they are pretty much on target to achieve that.


Thanks for the response. The Water Corp works must have been somewhat inconvenient for the residents of Rutland Ave.

i will need to look into the proposed bike lane that you mentioned.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby BandedRail » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:53 pm

An update on the underpass - the orange asphalt has been laid and the electronic billboard states that the underpass will be open on the 27th of April (doesn't say morning or afternoon though).

I'm looking forward to not having to cross the Causeway twice a day - I have seen some crazy behavior by both peds and cyclists when it's obvious that there is little room for error and absolutely no "out" if it all goes wrong.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby wellington_street » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:20 pm

Scott_C wrote:I was actually referring to the ToVP construction of bicycle lanes/PSP/Bike Boulevard on Rutland Ave, not the Water Corp piping works.

ToVP received a $90k grant from DoT for construction of a "Rutland Avenue Segregated Bike Lane" in the 2017/18 financial year and I need to get them to cough up a design because, from what was previously published on their website, they are planning on bi-directional cycle lanes on the western side of Rutland Ave between Welshpool Rd and Oat St and I don't think it is workable design as there isn't a practicable way to get into the lanes when you are travelling southbound at Oat St. They are also very unclear as to whether this will be a PSP, bicycle lanes or a cycle path with bicycle lanes being the worst option because of the legal compulsion to use them.

I believe Rutland Ave will now be a 'bicycle boulevard' (refer Shakespeare Street, Mt Hawthorn or Leake Street, Bayswater for examples) rather than any separated infrastructure.

From the website you linked:
The Town is now partnering with the Department of Transport to investigate the implementation of a bicycle boulevard concept from Great Eastern Highway to Miller Street. It is anticipated that the Town will be able to present options to the community in the second half of 2017 for comment.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:22 pm

wellington_street wrote:I believe Rutland Ave will now be a 'bicycle boulevard' (refer Shakespeare Street, Mt Hawthorn or Leake Street, Bayswater for examples) rather than any separated infrastructure.

From the website you linked:
The Town is now partnering with the Department of Transport to investigate the implementation of a bicycle boulevard concept from Great Eastern Highway to Miller Street. It is anticipated that the Town will be able to present options to the community in the second half of 2017 for comment.


That's a different section of Rutland Ave. There are 3 sections of Rutland Ave (plus a section of Goodwood Parade) that require bicycle infrastructure in order to complete the section of the Armadale Line PSP that is promised by 2023. Section 1 is Welshpool Rd to Oats St and that is the section I believe they have the WABN construction grant for in the 2017/18 financial year under the heading "Rutland Avenue Segregated Bike Lane". Welshpool Rd to Oats St is unsuitable for a bicycle boulevard treatment due to the high percentage of heavy vehicles using that stretch of road due to there being a number of warehouses along that section, with the majority of the traffic being TNT courier box trucks going to and from their distribution centre. The existing road is also wide enough that you easily have space for 2 good-width cycle lanes and bi-directional traffic.

GEH to Miller St is the third section requiring bicycle infrastructure (with Oats to Miller being the second section) but GEH to Miller is considerably more space constrained than the other sections of Rutland Ave (it is particularly constrained from GEH to Vic Park station), with insufficient road reserve to have on-road cycle lanes and bi-directional traffic or to have an off-road PSP unless you build significant retaining structures (Bikewest's 1996 design has 2.0 to 2.5m of limestone pitching required continuously from GEH to the old Vic Park station site and the recent works through this section as part of the Perth Stadium Transport Infrastructure project will have only made this worse). This is the section that they are investigating the bicycle boulevard concept for as a cost saving measure to avoid the need to build the retaining structures.

The WABN grant application rules say that construction projects need to be presented with a detailed design in order to be eligible for a construction grant so there should be a set of detailed design drawings for whatever is covered by the "Rutland Avenue Segregated Bike Lane" somewhere out there.

Anyway you slice it, it appears that the Armadale Line 'PSP' will have plenty of variety with a PSP from Beckenham station to Welshpool Rd, "segregated bike lanes" from Welshpool Rd to Oats St, ??? from Oats St to Miller St, a Bike Boulevard starting somewhere between Miller St and GEH, a PSP along Goodwood Parade and Riversdale Rd before finally connecting in to the GFF PSP (which should be getting a hand-rail modification under the Windan Bridge to increase the height up to the current standard).

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby wellington_street » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:11 pm

Sorry Scott I misread your post and thought you were referring to Section 3.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby roller » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:31 am

It's open!

rejoice!

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:09 am

roller wrote:It's open!

What's the riding surface like?

There often seems to be difficulty getting the levels and transitions right when dealing with drainage and pits. Hopefully they got this one right.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby wexford » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:13 am

Apart from the layer of broken glass on the northern side, it's a big improvement. The surface is brightly painted, so you've got a good view of what's on top of it. There are a few small rolling bumps but nothing significant.

The northern side was also "closed" for (weed?) spraying this morning, but nobody was paying attention to that including myself.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby wellington_street » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:22 am

I note this comment on the ToVP website:
It has been reported that many cyclist and pedestrians using the shared path did not follow or pay any attention to the provided detour and signage, putting their safety at risk in crossing six lanes of traffic on Shepperton Road during closure of the underpass.

Well duh, if you force people to travel on foot an extra couple of kilometres they aren't going to play along.

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby wexford » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:46 pm

wellington_street wrote:Well duh, if you force people to travel on foot an extra couple of kilometres they aren't going to play along.


TBH the detour was pretty long, but I couldn't think of any decent/better alternative so I just went with it. The Craig St works being on at the same time wasn't helpful.

This is my daily commute so I've probably racked up something like an additional 100km during the works :lol:

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby roller » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:55 pm

I am looking forward to a detour-free commute for as long as it is until they start work on the Bayswater train station PSP extension.
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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby BandedRail » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:30 pm

The glass is gone now too :D

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Re: Causeway Southern Underpass Closed 6 Feb to end April 2017

Postby Scott_C » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:50 pm

roller wrote:I am looking forward to a detour-free commute for as long as it is until they start work on the Bayswater train station PSP extension.

I laugh because the Bayswater works are scheduled to start on site this week. Pray for more design delays...

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