Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Stuey
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Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby Stuey » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:46 pm

Hi there,

Myself, wife and daughter use the path from Burns Beach heading south over the coastal dunes almost on a daily basis, and have been doing this for many years. I both cycle and walk the path, but usually walk as it's not really suitable for bikes IMO due to the young families walking.

If you are one of those people riding on this path, could you please have some consideration for walkers. We have put up with selfish bastards who come down the hills and corner at a lean, missing us by about 20 cm at 30km/h+. My wife had to jump out the way of a guy today who would have hit her, hence this post.

It is only a matter of time before someone is clipped and there's a major incident. Fortunately, I think the cyclist might come out the worse and he or she hits the fence. Hopefully, anyway. For God's sake, we can't advocate a 1m passing rule in respect of cars and then have cyclists act like this!

I can't imagine these people would frequent this forum, but can't get the word out any other way.

If it keeps up, I may have to carry a short piece of water pipe.

Regards

Stuey

NASHIE
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby NASHIE » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:04 am

Not from the area Stuey, but did walk this path last year with the family and totally agree thats its not suitable for bikes going over 15-20kph. Really beautiful coastal walk that sounds like it needs a few calming devices to stop the stava time idiots. From memory the fence is close on both sides so no runoff area and lots of blind corners/crests. Maybe a local petition to council for some calming devices ?

bianchi928
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby bianchi928 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:37 am

We stopped riding this section because of the number of pedestrians (who, lets be honest. sometimes don't help themselves by walking on the wrong side of the path and wearing headphones and don't hear your bell) and other cyclist going crazy,but I agree. Not the path to be riding fast.
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Stuey
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby Stuey » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:59 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean with some peds. I always walk to the far left of the paving, and make a point of giving extra clearance to bikes (or runners) I hear coming up behind me so they know I've heard them - unfortunately not many use a bell.

On the odd occasion I ride that path, I treat it as a leisurely ride and go quite slow.

Most offenders are men, over 35-40 - I can't help thinking these are in the crop of new riders or returning riders who haven't a clue what's acceptible, having last ridden a bike as a child in the 70's. :D

citywomble
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby citywomble » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:39 pm

Hi,

Let's start with the first misapprehension which fuels inappropriate riding. This is not a Principal Shared Path, called a PSP, as they are promoted by the state government for fast commuting cycling. Thereby lies the problem, as long as they look and are perceived to be PSPs so will some riders use them as such. This is in fact a Recreational Shared Path (RSP) which is intended for pedestrian and family style riding recreation and, by design, should only be used by riders keeping below 20 km/h who should always expect the unexpected and be prepared to stop.

Second one - unlike cyclists who are, pedestrians are not required by law to keep left. That rule was removed in December 2000 when the Road Traffic Code removed that requirement. The reason was to avoid some confusion and allow pedestrians to face oncoming (bike) traffic when on a shared path just as they must, by law, when walking on the road.

These rogue cyclists need to be aware that they are required to give way to pedestrians under virtually all circumstances and, because of a pedestrian fatality on a shared path in South Perth, WA criminal law was changed to allow cyclists to be held culpable for the death of pedestrians on paths with up to 10 years jail time.

Trevtassie
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby Trevtassie » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:23 am

Stuey wrote:Yeah, I know what you mean with some peds. I always walk to the far left of the paving, and make a point of giving extra clearance to bikes (or runners) I hear coming up behind me so they know I've heard them - unfortunately not many use a bell.

On the odd occasion I ride that path, I treat it as a leisurely ride and go quite slow.

Most offenders are men, over 35-40 - I can't help thinking these are in the crop of new riders or returning riders who haven't a clue what's acceptible, having last ridden a bike as a child in the 70's. :D

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, you get them in surfing too, except they usually ride stand up paddle boards, which makes it even worse. Not only don't they not know what's acceptable or not, they are doing it on a massive chunk of fibreglass.

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trailgumby
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby trailgumby » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:43 pm

That's probably why they're doing it on a massive hunk of fibreglass. The SUV of the waves. So glad I'm out of that sport - so competitive and angry trying to catch waves.

enduro2
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby enduro2 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:50 am

Though I've had a 6 week break, I ride from Trigg to Burns Beach three times a week and have only once ridden the PSP. it's just not suited as a shared pathway for anything but family biking. The road up to Burns is so good I couldn't consider riding the PSP with all the dangers of pedestrians, leashed dogs, and tight spaces.

Some riders get a thrill from annoying others.

tcdev
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby tcdev » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:56 pm

citywomble wrote:by design, should only be used by riders keeping below 20 km/h who should always expect the unexpected and be prepared to stop.

I've been on a few shared paths that do signpost (cycling) speed limits. Seems like this would be appropriate on this path. May not be able to force the idiots to slow down initially, but I'd imagine sustained warnings and abuse from irate pedestrians would eventually do the trick? Better than 'calming devices' that are an inconvenience to the majority of considerate cyclists and a hazard to young kids learning to ride.
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Scott_C
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby Scott_C » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:26 pm

tcdev wrote:
citywomble wrote:by design, should only be used by riders keeping below 20 km/h who should always expect the unexpected and be prepared to stop.

I've been on a few shared paths that do signpost (cycling) speed limits. Seems like this would be appropriate on this path. May not be able to force the idiots to slow down initially, but I'd imagine sustained warnings and abuse from irate pedestrians would eventually do the trick? Better than 'calming devices' that are an inconvenience to the majority of considerate cyclists and a hazard to young kids learning to ride.

The state Government would need to modify the WA Road Traffic Code if they wanted speed limit signs to apply to paths (at the moment signs only apply to carriageways although posties, gophers and Segways have a blanket limit of 10kph on all paths). Councils can post recommended speeds all they like but they won't be binding or enforceable under the road rules.

The preferred solution should be the delivery and advertising of high quality cycling infrastructure on a parallel route which the cyclists currently causing conflict will prefer to use as it will be a better cycling experience than the RSP.

citywomble
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby citywomble » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:50 pm

Hi Scott,

Two things here relating to posting speed limits.

Firstly, there is good legal advice, which is summarised in section 4.4 of the City of Stirling's "Integrated Cycling Strategy, that MRWA can and probably should install speed limits on shared paths. No change in the law is required.

Secondly, while local governments cannot do that where shared paths are in the road reserve, for much of the RSP in Joondalup (particularly the Burns Beach section discussed) it is covered by local government laws and it should be possible to install legally enforceable speed limits. City of Stirling does install signed speed limits on their RSP where they are not in the road reserve and they are enforceable. Irrespective of enforceability, there is no doubt that without signage or common sense, how are some riders to know what is appropriate.

tcdev
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby tcdev » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:54 am

Scott_C wrote:Councils can post recommended speeds all they like but they won't be binding or enforceable under the road rules.

I actually have no idea whether the signs I'm thinking of - in NSW - are legally enforceable or not. But my point was that, regardless, whether enforceable or a merely suggestion they would have some effect - either a cue to the mindless to slow down, or ammunition for others using the path that are inclined to take these idiots to task.

"Hey, you're going too fast!" holds little sway on a path designed [also] for cycling without a limit to cite.
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jaythefordman
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Re: Burns Beach Coastal PSP idiots

Postby jaythefordman » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:32 pm

bianchi928 wrote:We stopped riding this section because of the number of pedestrians (who, lets be honest. sometimes don't help themselves by walking on the wrong side of the path and wearing headphones and don't hear your bell) and other cyclist going crazy,but I agree. Not the path to be riding fast.


Yep, me too. As mentioned, its really a RSP and as such shouldn't be ridden by anyone with any real intent as a cyclist. Risk is too high for an accident, especially with the number of kids around.

One of the major reasons I gave up riding on any of the paths along the coast as its too crazy with pedestrians to be safe at any real speed, and so I stick to the road.

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