Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:18 pm

Slim wrote:The alternative is to simply give them stand over and height dimensions and pray that's enough, but at $5K+ I'm hesitating.....

......Any polite suggestions or thoughts?

Are you saying your Thorn Nomad complete from Robin and Andy will cost $5K? :shock:

Have a look at the component list I posted near the start of this thread. Mostly pretty good quality gear ( I could have gone for the Single Digit SL brakes) and it all cost me $3.8K by sourcing my own components through on-line stores, much of it from St John Street Cycles. I happily put the bike together myself - LBS did the wheelbuild for me. Consider your options carefully.

What will make your Thorn $5K ?
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by BNA » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:20 pm

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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Slim » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:20 pm

by RonK » wrote:
The only dimension that is important is the virtual top tube length. Standover height is irrelevant when the bike has a compact frame. And since at 5'11" you are the same height as myself and il padrone the 565L should be the right choice.


That's a worry. On Friday I pressed the button on a 590M i.e. shorter top tube 585mm vs 605mm. It was based on advice from sales at Thorn. Initially they recommended a 590L, but were qualified and then went 590M. They noted (correctly) that I have got long legs in proportion to my overall height. Based on a stand over height of 900mm the average height is apparently 6'1'' versus my 5'11". Hence they recommended a frame with a shorter top tube. That would seem to make sense, but I would welcome your thoughts.

Thanks for responding.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:23 pm

I'm 6" 183cm and they suggested 590m as well, hurry on 7 590M frames left. But I can't go the simple route and buy a Thorn chainset now can I nooo, they are out of stock till JUNE!!!!
Found something on wiggle to suit but what is the bottom bracket width? 68mm?
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Slim » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:37 pm

il padrone » wrote
What will make your Thorn $5K ?


Il Padrone I think you ported over bits, which probably explains a large part of the difference. There is also a hefty cost associated with shipping an entire bike.

My spec includes:
- Andra 30 CSS rims
- Pitlocks
- Anodized hubs
- B&M headlamp
SJSC Ergo bar ends
- SRAM PC890 chain
- Schmidt SON 28
- SKS guards
- Carriers F&B
- Shimano PDX-MX30 pedals
- Morph Mountain pump
-S&S coupling

The $5K also includes UKP450 freight + GST and duty at this end (less VAT).

Also looked at building up a Surly LHT Delux to a similar spec. It came out marginally more.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:43 pm

Slim wrote:On Friday I pressed the button on a 590M i.e. shorter top tube 585mm vs 605mm. It was based on advice from sales at Thorn.


Well that makes sense -if you are all leg then a shorter top tube would be appropriate, and I don't dispute Thorns advice. However I was not aware there was such a size - it's not on the Nomad brochure I'm looking at. That is why I pointed at the 565L.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:51 pm

Baalzamon wrote:I'm 6" 183cm and they suggested 590m as well, hurry on 7 590M frames left. But I can't go the simple route and buy a Thorn chainset now can I nooo, they are out of stock till JUNE!!!!
Found something on wiggle to suit but what is the bottom bracket width? 68mm?


It is actually difficult to find a single speed chainset with the correct size chain ring. I'm going to use a Truvati Stylo 1.1 GPX for my Pioneer, but can't buy one with a 38T ring, so I'll have to buy it separately.

I must admit though that these Stronglight Impact Rohloff cranksets are very stylish, and I suspect are actually what Thorn sell as their own brand. I could be tempted by one of these myself. SJS Cycles actually have these in stock, if you are comfortable with 170mm crank arms.
Last edited by RonK on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Slim » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:02 pm

by RonK » wrote:
Well that makes sense


That's comforting, but I'll still be xxxxing myself until the thing arrives and I can get a leg over.

RonK » wrote:However I was not aware there was such a size - it's not on the Nomad brochure I'm looking at.


It's in the Issue 4 Jan 2011 price list come Nomad brochure <a href="http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/ravennomad.html">here.</a>
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:24 pm

Baalzamon wrote:I'm 6" 183cm and they suggested 590m as well, hurry on 7 590M frames left. But I can't go the simple route and buy a Thorn chainset now can I nooo, they are out of stock till JUNE!!!!
Found something on wiggle to suit but what is the bottom bracket width? 68mm?

Yes, their BB is 68m. I used a 68-113 BB and it came out perfect with the Thorn crank and the chainring on the inside.

RonK wrote:It is actually difficult to find a single speed chainset with the correct size chain ring. I'm going to use a Truvati Stylo 1.1 GPX for my Pioneer, but can't buy one with a 38T ring, so I'll have to buy it separately.

Get the Thorn Rohloff chainring, it is double-sided so you'll get twice the life out of it by reversing it when it is worn on the first side.

RonK wrote:I must admit though that these Stronglight Impact Rohloff cranksets are very stylish, and I suspect are actually what Thorn sell as their own brand.

No, they have a different shape to their Thorn cranks.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:30 pm

Slim wrote:Il Padrone I think you ported over bits

:?: What are you saying??

Slim wrote:My spec includes:
- Andra 30 CSS rims
- Pitlocks
- Anodized hubs
- B&M headlamp
SJSC Ergo bar ends
- SRAM PC890 chain
- Schmidt SON 28
- SKS guards
- Carriers F&B
- Shimano PDX-MX30 pedals
- Morph Mountain pump
-S&S coupling


Apart from the S&S couplings, really not too much different to my fit-out.

Slim wrote:The $5K also includes UKP450 freight + GST and duty at this end (less VAT).

I would have paid a fair bit of freight as well, but the GST and duty is one area where I have saved money. Also my labour to build the parts up into a finished bike. And I know I do not have any overall bike waranty - I'm happpy to rely on the components' quality and look after my own risk.
Last edited by il padrone on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:30 pm

Slim wrote:The $5K also includes UKP450 freight + GST and duty at this end (less VAT).


Just so you don't get any unpleasant surprises, it works like this:
Cost price less 20% VAT (subtract 16.6%)
+ import duty (5%)
+ shipping and insurance
+ GST (10%)
+ customs agents fee (you may not have known about this one).
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:39 pm

il padrone wrote:Get the Thorn Rohloff chainring, it is double-sided so you'll get twice the life out of it by reversing it when it is worn on the first side.


Oh yes, I see what you mean - and they have them in 4-arm 104 BCD to fit the Stylo crankset. Good tip, thanks for that.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:47 pm

Slim, you're in Melbourne? You'll have to get along to the MBTC clubnight one Thursday and meet a couple of fellow Rohloff-users. Join us for a ride or two to break in the bike when it arrives :wink:

Thursday, 8.00pm, Trades Hall, upstairs in the rear meeting room (look for our signs to guide you).
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:50 pm

Starbike has the Schmidt son 28 dynamo much cheaper as well as the lights.

Frame, handlebar, bar ends, chainring, rims are all coming from SJS
Lights are coming from Bike24 as are the tubus racks and the rohloff hub.
Spokes, schmidt son 28 are coming from starbike.
There are savings to be had, you just need to know where to look.

Just gotta sort out what length stem I need :?
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:50 pm

Baalzamon wrote:Frame, handlebar, bar ends, chainring, rims are all coming from SJS

Take care - I had a bit of a wrangle with SJS over the rims. I ordered one standard Rigida Andra 30 CSS rim to be built into a wheel with a SON 28, and one Rohloff-drilled rim to build up myself.

When the parts arrived the rim had a tag that showed it to be the standard rim. I believe they built the SON 28 with the Rohloff rim.

I wasn't very happy about this but they seemed reluctant to exchange it, asking me to build the wheel and send them photos of it. I was reluctant to do that - it's a lot of time and effort gone to waste if the rim ultimately was the wrong one.

For my own peace of mind I had to buy another Rohloff-drilled rim, and although they sold it to me very cheap, I was disappointed to have to spend my money to fix their mistake. It was this incident that finally tipped the scale against the Nomad for me - that and finding a Pioneer frame at a fantastic price with free shipping, which brought it into the realm where it was financially feasible.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:28 pm

I am building all wheels myself. Rims from SJS, spokes from Starbikes along with Son dynamo 28 and the rohloff from Bike24. Going to be placing the order for the bulk of the parts tonight, possibly even the Rohloff hub but sent to a different person and different address than another bike24 order. Where I can I'm saving prices. The grips are $10 cheaper over at bike24 for instance. Looks like I'm getting cranks and BB from harris cyclery. I believe I need an axle that is 124mm or so long to give me the 54mm chain line that the Rohloff needs.

Once bike is built, on the trainer it goes to run it in. Will see how it feels to me and what stem I think I'll need. I've got an adjustable stem at home that "may" work.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Slim » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:45 am

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:47 am
Slim, you're in Melbourne? You'll have to get along to the MBTC clubnight one Thursday and meet a couple of fellow Rohloff-users. Join us for a ride or two to break in the bike when it arrives :wink:

Thanks, will do.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:47 am

Frame, rims, handlebars, cranks, bottom bracket, grips, brakes, bottle cages have all been ordered. I even ordered the Rohloff last night :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Give it a few weeks and I hope to have it on my trainer at least and sussing out where I want the handlebars positioned and what size stem I want. I've got an adjustable 120mm stem I may be able to use temporarily.

Still need to order spokes and the front dynamo.
Shipping at SJS = ouch, but all credit due they are giving me a 25 quid discount on the shipping due to having to split order into 2 parcels.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:18 pm

Baalzamon wrote:I am building all wheels myself.

He may have already given you this advice, but I''ll share it with you - Robin Thorn recommended I ignore the Speedhub manual and cross the spokes over the cap screws on the non-drive side. He didn't explain why, but if you look at the pictures in il pradrone's album, that is the way his is laced (but the trailing spokes are on the outside?). I have also seen pictures where the opposite lacing has been used, so I don't know how important it is - not much perhaps.

To make sure the spokes crossed in the right place I started by lacing the non-drive side first. It's a bit fiddly getting the rim and hub labels and the valve hole and oil hole all aligned, and mine finished up not quite as I intended, but I'm not pulling it apart again so I'll live with that. It's the first time I've done a two-cross lacing and I was surprised how easy it was. The Andra rims run very true and if you tension the spokes gradually and evenly they don't move much so little truing required.

If you are using the recommended Sapim Polyax nipples, take care that you have the correct sized spoke key as they are quite soft and easily rounded off when the tension comes up.

If you don't have one, you might find this el cheapo wheel truing stand useful - I did.

BTW, if you ordered your Speedhub from Bike24, the manual will be in German - well, mine was. You can download it as a PDF file from the Rohloff web site or buy the English version for a few dollars.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:36 pm

Thanks Ronk

I'm getting the Rohloff spoke kit (black) which has black anodized brass niples so I won't have a problem with them rounding off too easily. Yep I got my hub from bike24, so most likely a german manual. I have realised my SJS order has also gone over the $1000 threshold so I"ve sent them an email requesting a different shipping address on one parcel. Seeing a few different lacing patterns on the web.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:20 pm

Well xmas came early today for me :D
2 boxes turned up at work
Thorn raven nomad Mk2 in yellow ofc
Thorn handlebars
Rigida Andra Rims CSS
42t Chainring

Phil Woods BB
Sugino crankset with 48t chainring
Stainless steel BB cups, yes the phil woods BB didn't come with cups :(

So right now I've got the BB & cranks on, seatpost in and fork is loosely inserted. Once my final order rocks up which I hope is before easter I will be able to get the Thorn on my trainer and play with handlebar height.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:26 am

So my rohloff rocked up last yesterday. Opened up the box and looked at everything. Noticed immediately I was missing a screw for the grip fastening to the handlebars :roll:
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby footloose » Tue May 10, 2011 7:41 pm

So,what's happening?

Baalzamon receiving his Rohloff must have been too much for him and he is still lost in his orgasm of delight.

Il padrone, are you still at the Pancake Parlour or have you decided that you are enjoying the new bike so much that you have decided to take the long way home and still haven't arrived to give us an update on your new obsession?

And what about you, RonK? How is that Pioneer thing going? Hasn't started to rust in the shed after that damp spell you had up your way, has it?

I am seriously interested in a Thorn Raven Tour is why I am following this thread. Different frame to what has been discussed but fitted out pretty much the same way. The intention is to do as others have done and source all of my own parts and build it myself, except for the wheels which I know I can get built locally.

So let us know how your toys are coming along and how your choices have worked for you,
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Tue May 10, 2011 7:59 pm

My Thorn Nomad is still riding, doing daily commute duty and riding longer tours on the weekends. Easter was a great tour of the Goulburn Valley and Strathbogies. Bike is rolling really well. It's the yellow one in the picture. Gearing was good for some very steep climbs but I may get a 40t chainring for serious mountain rides.

Image

The only minor glitch has been the EBB tension bolts coming loose a couple of times while riding. I do think the Thorn EBB is a bit agricultural and may eventually replace it with the cam-secured Co-Motion EBB. I'll give it a bit more time and make sure the bolts are tighter, but don't like the prospect of making 'pre-set' divets in the alloy EBB.
Last edited by il padrone on Tue May 10, 2011 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Tue May 10, 2011 8:03 pm

Update
I've got my rohloff built into my wheel
Got my front wheel being built
Waiting on stem to arrive.
Need tubes, but can buy local but ofc will be ripped with local prices most likely twice the price

Issue
My hebie chainglider rubs on the thorn reversible chainring. It is noticeable and I can feel the resistance hand pedalling the bike. I either get a new chainring, or don't run a chainguard. For ultimate winter commuter it needs a chainguard so I will order a new chainring.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Tue May 10, 2011 8:06 pm

I think more of a concern could be the chainglider rubbing on the alloy shell of your Rohloff. This has been discussed on the Thorn Rohloff forum and is an acknowledged limitation. Rohloff advice is not to use the Hebie chainglider I believe.
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