Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

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Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Wingnut » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:32 am

If I remember correctly, it says on the blog that the wheel removal isn't too fiddly on the Troll...a Thorn was previously used by this person who compares the two plus a Santos on the blog.

I never really considered chain stretch with the Rohloff system on the Troll but if you look at the pic the disc caliper mount can slide for & aft too...one thing I don't like about the Rohloff hubs is the chain tension or lack of, I've seen some pretty droopy chains on several bikes that aren't using the available chain tensioner.

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Apologies if I sounded defensive... :roll:


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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:18 pm

Wingnut wrote:one thing I don't like about the Rohloff hubs is the chain tension or lack of, I've seen some pretty droopy chains on several bikes that aren't using the available chain tensioner.

Makes little difference overall. Too much tension can be damaging to the hub I believe. Rohloff recommend a 10-20mm slack in the chain (t1 - t2 in diagram below), but I have run it with 30-40mm slack and it is still not possible to force the chain off. As long as the chain cannot bounce of then all is pretty good.


Image



http://spoke2spoke.com/tag/rohloff/
According to Thorn, slack train will not do any damage whatsoever, if it is allowed to become very slack the only danger is that it may fall off. By contrast, a chain which is too tight wears prematurely, causes premature wear to the bottom bracket assembly (possibly to the hub too) and causes unnecessary expenditure of energy in use.....

.....Do not readjust the chain tension until T1 minus T2 equals 40mm. The “crude but simple, reliable and effective” system Thorn use for locking the eccentric depends upon the points of the screws being able to bite into the alloy eccentric. If unnecessary chain adjustments are made, the holes created by the points will be too close together and the eccentric will simply slip back into its previous position.

The change should be adjusted before T1 minus T2 reaches 60 MM. Failure to do this makes it possible for the chain to become slack enough to fall off the chain ring (or sprocket).

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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:44 am

I spotted that too about the chain as well so I waiting for that to happen now. Loving my thorn such a great touring bike. Just need to sort out numbing on my hands which happens on all my bikes but on the thorn is worst :(
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:01 am

Wingnut wrote:If I remember correctly, it says on the blog that the wheel removal isn't too fiddly on the Troll...a Thorn was previously used by this person who compares the two plus a Santos on the blog.

It's an intriguing question though - how do you remove the wheel? I guess in his case it would be necessary to loosen or perhaps remove the tensioning device to allow the wheel to move forward so the chain can be lifted off the chainring, but would the brake caliper mount also have to be loosened? After removing the chain from the chainring there should be enough rearward movement to clear the horizontal dropouts.

With a vertical dropout, it's just a matter of undoing the quick release...
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Super Commuter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:37 am

Super Commuter wrote:
il padrone wrote:
Baalzamon wrote:In disgust I ended up getting the Kool Stops from Wiggle that are suited for CSS rims. Unfavourable reviews, but I'll see how they really go myself. I also have some SwissStop Blues coming from Bike24, I just hope they don't screw up like starbike did...

I've been using the Swisstop Blue pads, but got a bit concerned about braking grip losses on some of our recent wet day commutes. They seemed to feel disturbingly like the old steel rims :shock: , so I'm hoping the Koolstops for CSS that I've recently received will be better in the wet. In 2 weeks I am running a ride up Mt Donna Buang with good chances of snow and/or wet conditions and I want brake grip on the 16km steepish descent.


Sorry for the thread revival but can I ask whether anyone has resolved this wet weather issue with the CSS rims? I'm considering going this way but wet weather braking performance is a definite requirement...

Thanks!


Hi all

BTW, I'm still very much interested in anyone's experiences on the above problem - anyone? It seems to me that disc brakes cause quite a few issues with Rohloffs so i would like to avoid them if possible.

The only thing really going for discs in this application is wet weather performance - this is very important to me due to a couple of scary experiences in downpours, even with V-brakes. Using Kool Stop Salmon pads seems to have improved this on normal rims (Mavic 319s) but I really like the idea of the longevity of CSS - IMO worth the extra when you consider a reasonable hourly rate for maintaining the bike (setting up the stand, adjusting / changing pads etc) and for the peace of mind!
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby RonK » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:33 pm

Baalzamon wrote:Just need to sort out numbing on my hands which happens on all my bikes but on the thorn is worst :(

Did you get the Ergon grips? I'm going to use the GC3 Large, which incorporate a sizeable bar-end. You might also need to cut the bars down so they are not too wide - I think Andly Blance mentioned cutting their flat bars down to 480mm - still pretty wide by drop bar standards. They look pretty narrow in the photos on the Nomad brochure.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:20 pm

RonK wrote:
Baalzamon wrote:Just need to sort out numbing on my hands which happens on all my bikes but on the thorn is worst :(

Did you get the Ergon grips? I'm going to use the GC3 Large, which incorporate a sizeable bar-end. You might also need to cut the bars down so they are not too wide - I think Andly Blance mentioned cutting their flat bars down to 480mm - still pretty wide by drop bar standards. They look pretty narrow in the photos on the Nomad brochure.


Yup I'm running the Ergon GC3 Large grips. Tony thinks my setup that has been done by a bikeshop is a bit iffy. Seat back, handlebars lower than seat putting more weight onto my arms/hands.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Aushiker » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:47 pm

Baalzamon wrote:Yup I'm running the Ergon GC3 Large grips. Tony thinks my setup that has been done by a bikeshop is a bit iffy. Seat back, handlebars lower than seat putting more weight onto my arms/hands.

Who did the setup? I would also compare it against your Masi if that is comfortable for you.

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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:18 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Baalzamon wrote:Yup I'm running the Ergon GC3 Large grips. Tony thinks my setup that has been done by a bikeshop is a bit iffy. Seat back, handlebars lower than seat putting more weight onto my arms/hands.

Who did the setup? I would also compare it against your Masi if that is comfortable for you.

Andrew


Elite cycles did a small bit and Rick Churchill did the rest. Rick raised the handlebar height, but I can still raise it higher thanks to more spacers above stem. Hands are going numb quite quickly and I'm waking up in the night with Carpal Tunnel symptoms. But for years I've been keeping Carpal Tunnel Syndrome at bay so I think it is time to address it again. First got the symptoms when I used a post hole digger and I went for a splint and not a cortisone shot back then which was about 10 years ago. Using a computer doesn't help either and it's my career as well for now.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Slim » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:44 pm

Baalzamon wrote:But for years I've been keeping Carpal Tunnel Syndrome at bay so I think it is time to address it again.


For what it's worth I told Thorn to ship my Nomad without cutting the steerer and send a big bag of spacers. When it arrived I decided to use all the spacers and leave the steerer uncut till I got a feel for it. After 4-5 months of riding it's not giving any probs so it will probably remain as is for ever. Net result is that the handlebars are about 2.5" higher than the seat so there's minimal weight on my hands.

You've clearly got a specific issue with CP, so my reflections are probably not that helpful
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:59 pm

I guess it's a personal thing, partly physique and partly what you're used to. My bike has the bars below the saddle (actually a few cms higher than the old Sedona) and I'm perfectly comfortable on it for long rides. I actually put little weight on my hands and am able to ride for long stretches just resting my hands on the bars. Maybe some work on core exercies will help you develop the abdominal control to hold your body without weighing on your arms and wrist ??

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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:01 pm

Well I have adjusted my stem to as high as it can go now. If I still experience the numbness I will order an extender for the bike which can raise the steerer by either 55mm or 75mm. It's cheaper than a new fork and I can't find a yellow fork on sjscycles. Bare metal, or dark green and need to get it repainted.

I am overweight so that could be an issue as well, but I'm intending on losing that extra weight so things might improve in the future. But I will speak to my doc about CTS and go get the tests done and cortisone shot. I just hope it don't go down the operation path.
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Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Wingnut » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:24 am

Maybe consider trying a different set of handlebars that redistribute the weight in your hands?

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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:07 pm

I wonder if that can handle a rohloff shift grip.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Wingnut » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:09 am

Baalzamon wrote:I wonder if that can handle a rohloff shift grip.


It does!

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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:40 am

And on the other side to match I put one of these. Simplifies the whole bell issue.

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http://www.mirrycle.com/gripbell.php
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby footloose » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:47 pm

[quote="il padrone"]Too easy. The fit-out has already been listed :wink:

il padrone, a couple of questions about your purchases if I may.


Part Component Brand
edit

Hub (rear) Rohloff Speedhub 14

I can't work out from the description in the Thorn Nomad pdf which hub is the correct choice for the Nomad
Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 CC EX
Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 CC EX OEM
Both are shown on Bike 24 at
http://www.bike24.com/1.php?pitems=20;c ... 98;mid=118
Will you tell me which one you chose?

Cables & housing Transfil Black Snake

Is this the cables and housing you mentioned?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=46053


Seatpost FSA Orbit XL2

Did you have a hiccup with the headset description here?
Lots of seat posts to choose from but I would like to know which one you chose. It's been interesting reading about your choices and looking at the alternatives. I know a lot more about bike parts now than I ever did. I'm not saying I'm an expert yet but I am a lot less confused about the whole business : )
I had hoped to have my purchases finalised by now but circumstances have been against me. Once I sort out these questions, I hope to have my orders in by the end of the week. It's quite an adventure!
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:51 pm

footloose wrote:I can't work out from the description in the Thorn Nomad pdf which hub is the correct choice for the Nomad
Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 CC EX
Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 CC EX OEM
Both are shown on Bike 24 at
http://www.bike24.com/1.php?pitems=20;c ... 98;mid=118
Will you tell me which one you chose?

The Speedhub 500/14 CC EX OEM is the one you need for the Thorn Nomad. It has the special torsion arm that slots into the drop-out. The CC EX requires a long torsion arm that bolts to the chainstay - not needed and clunkier.

footloose wrote:Cables & housing Transfil Black Snake

Is this the cables and housing you mentioned?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=46053

Yes, except I was referring to the brake cables. The gear cables and housing come with the Rohloff.

footloose wrote:Seatpost FSA Orbit XL2

Did you have a hiccup with the headset description here?

Oops :oops: . Yes that is the Orbit XL2 headset. The seat post is supplied with the Nomad - a Thorn branded seat post. No choices needed.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby footloose » Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:37 pm

il padrone wrote:The Speedhub 500/14 CC EX OEM is the one you need for the Thorn Nomad. It has the special torsion arm that slots into the drop-out. The CC EX requires a long torsion arm that bolts to the chainstay - not needed and clunkier.


Yes, except I was referring to the brake cables. The gear cables and housing come with the Rohloff.



Oops :oops: . Yes that is the Orbit XL2 headset. The seat post is supplied with the Nomad - a Thorn branded seat post. No choices needed.


Thanks for that information. I was pretty sure that the cables mentioned were for the brakes with the Rohloff being supplied but it's nice to have that confirmed.
About the seatpost, well at least you now know that somebody actually reads and takes notice of your posts!
Actually, others probably noticed but unlike myself, were too polite to draw attention to your mistake.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:14 pm

The Rohloff gang is growing. Just in the past few days I've heard of three friends of mine who've bought themselves Rohloff Speedhubs to build nice new touring bikes around :D
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby KenGS » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:42 pm

il padrone wrote:The Rohloff gang is growing. Just in the past few days I've heard of three friends of mine who've bought themselves Rohloff Speedhubs to build nice new touring bikes around :D

Great! With such a big local demand maybe the cost of spares will come down - if I should I need any in the next 500 years :D
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Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Wingnut » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:55 pm

Yeah the cost is still a sticking point for me & not 100% sure I'll even hit the terrain that will justify it.

A grand for the hub (providing dollar doesn't keep dropping) plus lacing to another new rim, chainring, chain, cog, new handlebars to fit the shifter, grips, brake levers etc.

I know there are supposed to be long term benefits but it just seems to be going on & on...


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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby il padrone » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:41 pm

Wingnut wrote:Yeah the cost is still a sticking point for me & not 100% sure I'll even hit the terrain that will justify it.

Any terrain that has a few hills is justification. I use mine for a not too hilly commute and it's great - quick, easy gear changes, weather-protected mechanism. Once you've bitten the bullet on it the financial cost worry drops away and you have a very robust IGH that will last you for many years.

I've just swapped my first chain off, knowing that I will re-use it later and in the time I go through five more chain swaps I might wear out one sprocket and one chainring. With the derailleur gears I'd have gone through about three cassettes, not to mention wear on chainrings and deraileurs. The only downside is that I don't have any more components to drool over :( . It may be a cure for gear-freakitis.
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby Wingnut » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:38 am

il padrone wrote:
Wingnut wrote:Yeah the cost is still a sticking point for me & not 100% sure I'll even hit the terrain that will justify it.

Any terrain that has a few hills is justification. I use mine for a not too hilly commute and it's great - quick, easy gear changes, weather-protected mechanism. Once you've bitten the bullet on it the financial cost worry drops away and you have a very robust IGH that will last you for many years.

I've just swapped my first chain off, knowing that I will re-use it later and in the time I go through five more chain swaps I might wear out one sprocket and one chainring. With the derailleur gears I'd have gone through about three cassettes, not to mention wear on chainrings and deraileurs. The only downside is that I don't have any more components to drool over :( . It may be a cure for gear-freakitis.


Yeah I know logic tells me I should get it...the idea of not putting new cassette's on and derailleurs going out of adjustment seems like a heavenly dream! :)
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Re: Thorn Raven Nomad coming together

Postby rifraf » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:49 pm

HI everyone,
sorry if this has already been posted elsewhere (please let me know so I can delete it if it has).
I thought the Rohloff fans and owners might be interested in these links if they aren't already aware of them.
Hopefully this is helpful
" if people are intersted in alternative shifters:
http://www.mittelmeyer.de/Fahrradteile/ ... ohloff.htm
http://www.mittelmeyer.de/Fahrradteile/ ... lenker.htm

There's another one pictured in the current CTC mag:
http://www.gillesberthoud.fr/anglais/fi ... cle=134GB2 \ "
I spotted these links at the online Moulton forum, of whom a fair few are IGH fans. :)
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